Thanks Coach Pastner

[lv20gt]

Look at their first year with him. Lammers and Okogie were very ready and good players as were Jackson and Stephens. Which of the guys you mention do you think will have as good a year as either Okogie or Lammers?. You can guess how well Okogie or Lammers would have played under Gregory but to say he did not inherit serious talent is misleading. GT was an NIT the year before CJP. GT is a 13th place finisher in the ACC this year. That says the team is not good.

We saw what Lammers was under Gregory. We don't have to guess. He averaged 3.6 ppg and 4 rpg. Jackson was a 4.7 ppg. Stephens was 5 ppg and 3.8 ppg. Okogie was a 3* solid recruit. None of them were proven in any way prior to Pastner getting here. Stephens was the most proven of the lot and his shooting percentage was worse than Smith's. Smith is averaging 8 ppg 5.6 rpg on a near 3-1 assist to turn over ratio. That would have easily been the best returning production we would have had on that team. The PGs returning that year were Heath and Corey Heyward.

Also are you really trying to use the fact we were in the NIT the year before as a basis for Pastner inheriting a better situation? What disingenuous BS is this? We lost our top 4 players, and 5 of the top 7 from that team. We lose one of our top 7 players from this one if the new coach can keep the roster together. Pastner didn't inherit Hunt, Smith, Jacobs, or Mitchell.

 

[iceeater1969]

May have been said, but Pastner stopped the decline , had some ups, was class all the way. He could have jumped ship blaming us for being cheap. He fought to the last and really wanted a shot at next year because he loved the institute.

Guy is so affable that he may get a chance in the broadcast booth.

I think he loves the game and the kids . After some time to reflect and crystalize his thoughts, he will be back coaching.

 

[Root4GT]

We saw what Lammers was under Gregory. We don't have to guess. He averaged 3.6 ppg and 4 rpg. Jackson was a 4.7 ppg. Stephens was 5 ppg and 3.8 ppg. Okogie was a 3* solid recruit. None of them were proven in any way prior to Pastner getting here. Stephens was the most proven of the lot and his shooting percentage was worse than Smith's. Smith is averaging 8 ppg 5.6 rpg on a near 3-1 assist to turn over ratio. That would have easily been the best returning production we would have had on that team. The PGs returning that year were Heath and Corey Heyward.

Also are you really trying to use the fact we were in the NIT the year before as a basis for Pastner inheriting a better situation? What disingenuous BS is this? We lost our top 4 players, and 5 of the top 7 from that team. We lose one of our top 7 players from this one if the new coach can keep the roster together. Pastner didn't inherit Hunt, Smith, Jacobs, or Mitchell.

Smith’s shooting percents: overall 40% // 3 point - 26%. // FT - 45%. Those numbers say this player should never shoot and can’t be on the floor in close late games. But he is a good rebound PG.

You have no idea yet who is returning do you- of course not. This question can’t be answered until this time next year.

 

[lv20gt]

Smith’s shooting percents: overall 40% // 3 point - 26%. // FT - 45%. Those numbers say this player should never shoot and can’t be on the floor in close late games. But he is a good rebound PG.

You have no idea yet who is returning do you- of course not. This question can’t be answered until this time next year.

And Stephens was shooting 37% from the field which was worse than a poor shooting PG who was a better rebounder, facilitator and passer. And he was the most proven of the returners while Smith is probably #5 or 6 from this year's team. That's the point.

I don't know who will return next year. I know who Pastner left which was the point being discussed. He left the situation much better than he found it. If the next coach can't keep them together that's not on Pastner.

 

[Root4GT]

And Stephens was shooting 37% from the field which was worse than a poor shooting PG who was a better rebounder, facilitator and passer. And he was the most proven of the returners while Smith is probably #5 or 6 from this year's team. That's the point.

I don't know who will return next year. I know who Pastner left which was the point being discussed. He left the situation much better than he found it. If the next coach can't keep them together that's not on Pastner.

We will see. He has 4 guys that are only eligible to return due to Covid so there is a difference.

That matters. Likely not to you. Of course if they all leave as was the norm until 2020 the returning roster would be Kelly, very good and 3 role players Smith, Coleman and Moore.

Let’s hope they all return and only 1 or 2 are starters then we might not finish 13th in conference.

We need a serious infusion of talent next if we are to compete.

 

[lv20gt]

We will see. He has 4 guys that are only eligible to return due to Covid so there is a difference.

That matters. Likely not to you. Of course if they all leave as was the norm until 2020 the returning roster would be Kelly, very good and 3 role players Smith, Coleman and Moore.

It doesn't matter beyond they have eligibility. Also, the three players who would be out of eligibility if it weren't for Covid are Howard, Sturdivant, and Terry. Terry was brought in after the rule change so it was by design, and Howard and Sturdivant were brought in when it was heavily speculated that the eligibility would be extended to winter sports and was certainly part of the roster calculations both when they were added and since.

 

[forensicbuzz]

We will see. He has 4 guys that are only eligible to return due to Covid so there is a difference.

That matters. Likely not to you. Of course if they all leave as was the norm until 2020 the returning roster would be Kelly, very good and 3 role players Smith, Coleman and Moore.

Let’s hope they all return and only 1 or 2 are starters then we might not finish 13th in conference.

We need a serious infusion of talent next if we are to compete.

I disagree with almost all of this. (not the premise of the discussion, just the points you've made in the particular post).

Covid doesn't matter because they are eligible. Coleman is not a role player. Moore will also be "not a role player." We have 2 young guys that will grow with the team. I think Freds will have a role next year. Cyril will depend on his development (he should be a senior in HS this year). There is potentially a lot of talent on this team. There needs to be a guy or two brought in to relieve the pressure from the shooters so they can shoot like they did at the end instead of like they did for the first 2/3's of the season. Just my opinion.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

dtm picked up the fumble and carried it over the goalline in his response above. That's pretty much it, nothing more imho.

I understand the concept but coaches like Howard Schnellenberger (football) at Miami were able to access a very large African American community without having anything in common with that community. To think that coaches have to be “from the community to break into the community” just seems wooden and one dimensional. I bet you can think of many real world examples of coaches who recruited well despite perceived cultural differences.

 

[Root4GT]

I disagree with almost all of this. (not the premise of the discussion, just the points you've made in the particular post).

Covid doesn't matter because they are eligible. Coleman is not a role player. Moore will also be "not a role player." We have 2 young guys that will grow with the team. I think Freds will have a role next year. Cyril will depend on his development (he should be a senior in HS this year). There is potentially a lot of talent on this team. There needs to be a guy or two brought in to relieve the pressure from the shooters so they can shoot like they did at the end instead of like they did for the first 2/3's of the season. Just my opinion.

Yup and the guys you tout have won 11 of 40 ACC games and got their coach fired. But heck they are all really good players. LOL

 

[kg01]

I understand the concept but coaches like Howard Schnellenberger (football) at Miami were able to access a very large African American community without having anything in common with that community. To think that coaches have to be “from the community to break into the community” just seems wooden and one dimensional. I bet you can think of many real world examples of coaches who recruited well despite perceived cultural differences.

That's the thing no one's saying. I feel like folks re reading what's not there.

 

[Root4GT]

It doesn't matter beyond they have eligibility. Also, the three players who would be out of eligibility if it weren't for Covid are Howard, Sturdivant, and Terry. Terry was brought in after the rule change so it was by design, and Howard and Sturdivant were brought in when it was heavily speculated that the eligibility would be extended to winter sports and was certainly part of the roster calculations both when they were added and since.

See below. These great players are 11-29 in conference play the past 2 years. Great base to there

 

[forensicbuzz]

Yup and the guys you tout have won 11 of 40 ACC games and got their coach fired. But heck they are all really good players. LOL

Wow, I don't remember saying that. The three of them were sophomores this year (Moore, Coleman, Kelly), Terry took a while to figure out the ACC level and got healthy, and Pastner did a really bad job this year of adjusting to the team. If not for injuries, I'm not sure Pastner would have figured out his best combination. Smith has a role, but it will always be limited until he improves his FT shooting and ability to finish at the rim. Cyril and Freds are progressing, but young. If we add a couple of post players that open things up, this group could be very successful.

I expect the three sophomores would make a huge step forward by next year.

All of this may be moot because with the coaching change, the team probably will evaporate. I wouldn't be surprise if we don't lose at least half of our minutes, if not more.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

None are as good as Okogie or Lammers. Let’s see if any of them achieve that status. Not to mention we don’t know who will actually be on the team next year. Delete Smith and Moore from the proven list. Moore has potential. Look at Smith’s shooting percent. Simply horrible from every spot.

They are all better than Lammers and Okogie were when Pastner got here. Lammers and Okogie developed under Pastner.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

That's the thing no one's saying. I feel like folks re reading what's not there.

What I thought I read was “quirky Jewish guy with curls can’t recruit Atlanta’s African American community.”

I’ll be happy to drop the conversation and accept the fact that whatever was said was completely over my head.

 

[CEB]

That's the thing no one's saying. I feel like folks re reading what's not there.

Funny, I feel like that was exactly what was said and more than one person laid it out. Argued in one direction it drew almost universal ire, argued another way, most nodded in agreement and moved on. Interesting, but probably not the place to explore further. I don’t think Pastner had any issues identifying, connecting and gaining the respect of the players. Even this year, when the wheels looked like they could come completely off, that didn’t happen. Big props to Pastner and the kids on that. It was silly to suggest Pastner failed for any such reason and its equally silly to think that we should start with preconceived physical criteria for the next guy.

That said, the big issue we’ve seen is that money has jumped to the top of the list of reasons kids go where they go. Not that money hasn’t always been a factor, but with NIL, every kid thinks he should get something, so you can’t say no without him leaving to shop the market. Not that the old way was necessarily better, but when you could look at a kid and say, “we won’t break the rules” it wasn’t met with his immediate departure. I have no illusions of winning bidding wars for the tip top prospects, but I fear we will lose the next level of guys who will be really productive college players for someone.
We need a respectable NIL set up, a coach who can coach and lead, and an institute that supports both. I don’t see any reason why Pastner couldn’t have been part of the solution, but I also understand the optics of a fresh start. I hope it truly is a fresh start and not just a new face.

 

[ChristoGT]

So, back to the thread.

Thanks, Coach.

 

[Root4GT]

Wow, I don't remember saying that. The three of them were sophomores this year (Moore, Coleman, Kelly), Terry took a while to figure out the ACC level and got healthy, and Pastner did a really bad job this year of adjusting to the team. If not for injuries, I'm not sure Pastner would have figured out his best combination. Smith has a role, but it will always be limited until he improves his FT shooting and ability to finish at the rim. Cyril and Freds are progressing, but young. If we add a couple of post players that open things up, this group could be very successful.

I expect the three sophomores would make a huge step forward by next year.

All of this may be moot because with the coaching change, the team probably will evaporate. I wouldn't be surprise if we don't lose at least half of our minutes, if not more.

And this year the team went 6-14 in the ACC. If you run the same cast back without Franklin but get a similar player from the Portal getting to 10 conference wins would have been a big step forward.

CDS needs to bring in some f=higher level talent and implement schemes that ft the skills of the roster.

 

[forensicbuzz]

And this year the team went 6-14 in the ACC. If you run the same cast back without Franklin but get a similar player from the Portal getting to 10 conference wins would have been a big step forward.

CDS needs to bring in some f=higher level talent and implement schemes that ft the skills of the roster.

You act like the three sophomores aren't going to get better with another offseason of growth. The team next fall will not be the same or anywhere close to the same as it was this spring, regardless of who's gone. Kids get better as they get older. Growth works that way. None of this is to say that we wouldn't benefit from some serious infusion of talent.

 

[Root4GT]

You act like the three sophomores aren't going to get better with another offseason of growth. The team next fall will not be the same or anywhere close to the same as it was this spring, regardless of who's gone. Kids get better as they get older. Growth works that way. None of this is to say that we wouldn't benefit from some serious infusion of talent.

Same holds true for the 12 teams that were better than GT. Incrementally better gets you to 10 wins. Our roster has serious holes that need to be filled. We have a lot of nice complementary players.

Really only one difference maker and he needs significant improvement getting to the rim. Instead of shooting 56 FTs on a season he needs to be well over 100. The only way to get there is to attack the rim. The rest of his game is superb. Lets hope CDS can teach/convince him to attack the rim.

 

[iceeater1969]

Same holds true for the 12 teams that were better than GT. Incrementally better gets you to 10 wins. Our roster has serious holes that need to be filled. We have a lot of nice complementary players.

Really only one difference maker and he needs significant improvement getting to the rim. Instead of shooting 56 FTs on a season he needs to be well over 100. The only way to get there is to attack the rim. The rest of his game is superb. Lets hope CDS can teach/convince him to attack the rim.

Make them practice against Usher.