Temple Post Game

[Heisman's Ghost]

Zero situational awareness.

The official said he did not have possession when he went out of bounds. I do not think it would have been overturned but it would have been worth a try.

The recruiting info from back then is a bit muddy, but I gave it a shot. Here's what I could find of that roster for guys who played snaps (NFL guys highlighted):
Nick Claytor (6'6" 312 lbs) - offers from Auburn, FSU, and Ohio State
Cord Howard (6'4" 315 lbs) - offers from Louisville and Ole Miss
Dan Voss (6'4" 290 lbs) - offer from Vanderbilt
Joseph Gilbert (6'4" 280 lbs) - no other P5 offers
Andrew Gardner (6'6" 309 lbs) - 2* Walk-on with offers from Duke and Wake Forest
Jason Hill (6'5" 260 lbs) - offers from Kentucky, UNC, and Vanderbilt
Austin Barrick (6'3" 242 lbs) - TE with offers from Vanderbilt, Duke, and Colorado
David Brown (6'3" 255 lbs) - DE with offers from Alabama, Georgia, Notre Dame, and Vanderbilt

Nick Claytor was considered by some to be the best offensive tackle in the state coming out of high school. He sure looked the part, big and broad shoulders and just carried himself like a football player. I was surprised that David Brown was moved from defense. We had some good players on that line but there were some reaches as well. Like much of Coach Johnson's tenure a mixed bag that he had to scheme around and did so very successfully all things considered. It is hard to overestimate the toughness and leadership provided by Josh Nesbitt. If I were on that line, I would be blocking like crazy rather than having him in my face. A lot of what troubles us in this transition is not having leadership like that.

 

[Longestday]

I really wonder how many people showed interest in the job.

 

[Boaty1]

I really wonder how many people showed interest in the job.

Agreed. Transitioning away from the option is a flat bear. Despite the relatively high ceiling GT has compared to a majority of the power 5 in terms of recruiting, I bet walking in to this little talent and training them in a completely different style was something many coaches wanted no part of. Thankfully that won’t factor in to the next hire whenever that occurs. For that we can all thank Collins.

 

[Longestday]

I’m not sure there is data to show GT has a high recruiting ceiling. GT is known for difficulty in recruiting. I think the transition, the schedule, the pay, and the recruiting difficulty would be a tough sell except to the very hungry.

 

[ibeattetris]

You want to go back over some of CPJs walk ons over the years? Yes, CPJ's walkons could have held their on to a degree. I'm positive we'd be 3-1 right now.

We would also have more scholarship walk ons in general since Collins did not take on the ones we had committed.

 

[RamblinCharger]

OL and DL are our issues. Graham could be really good next year but the OL is really really bad. Injuries haven’t helped. Going to need some bigger and better bodies in the trenches and I think we can turn this around.

 

[AlphaBuzz]

I think this is a really good post. I don't want to knock your kids, but they are not (especially on the OL) good enough to do what CGC wants them to do on offense. There is a reason they were not highly recruited by schools not running the 30. Like, I think they'd have been effective under PJ, but expecting them to be guys who zone block and pass block and lock up with OLs inside their pads and steer them....that's not going to work a lot. They are triple option linemen.

You COULD have kept with a gussied up version of PJ's offense, but I don't blame CGC at all for what he's doing. If he's going to do the job, he should be free to do it his way, and do what he believes in.

If he is going to succeed here, this has to be seen as a year where you spent it putting down the foundations, and not worried about wins/losses/appearances.

I've said it a bunch of times here, but to paraphrase Rick Pitino, Paul Johnson is not coming through those doors. Your school made the choice to go with a guy like Collins, and all the bitching and moaning in the world is not going to turn him into Paul Johnson, so let Paul Johnson go.

He can't do what Paul Johnson did. That said, Paul Johnson maybe can't do what he can, if you just give him a chance.

Paul Johnson is gone.

Glad to see you're still hanging around ILTO. Good perspective and a true offensive aficionado who appreciates the intricacies of the CPJ Spread Option.

 

[stech81]

I really wonder how many people showed interest in the job.

I would bet very few. Not even sure KW really would have took the job

 

[Animal02]

I would bet very few. Not even sure KW really would have took the job

I had the pleasure of meeting and chatting with a recent West Point grad / football player about a 15 months ago in a Delta skyclub in Atlanta. He said they were all expecting / anticipating that Monken would leave to replace CPJ upon retirement. Just saying.

 

[biggtfan]

Mason was working as an a back at times before. Doubt the speed is an issue with him

Even I would look fast if you tossed me the ball while running sideways to the defenders. Point me to a single play this year where either Mason or Howard cut outside and beat someone to the corner. I liked both a lot last year but they are not a fit this year, IMHO.

 

[biggtfan]

I think his speed is fine.

The clip you show illustrates my point: he is a straight-line runner. The O-line in the clip opened a big hole and I said this year's OL can't do that. He has speed, but not enough to be effective with our current OL.

 

[CuseJacket]

Temple is good , based on what ? People love to look at recruiting numbers so lets look. Temple 2015 rated 80 , 2016 rated 59 , 2017 rated 119, 2018 rated 82 while Tech was rated 44 in 2015 60 in 2016 48 in 2017, and 44 in 2018. I don't think they passed that test.

so lets look at their schedule 3 wins , first Bucknell Bison , Buffalo , and they beat Patenaude not sure this is a pass.

Guess you could say they are being better coached than us and I would have a hard time arguing that period.

You want to go back over some of CPJs walk ons over the years? Yes, CPJ's walkons could have held their on to a degree. I'm positive we'd be 3-1 right now.

I'll be first in line to say I thought we'd be a LOT better than where we're at. Citadel and Temple should be wins. Instead we were a hustle play against USF from being winless right now. I had a LOT of faith in our QBs, but I did now OL would struggle. Both are struggling.

The most disappointing thing to me is we just don't seem to be doing anything on offense that tells me we have any progressional play calling in mind. We seem to be doing things willy nilly out there and hoping our guys are making individual plays. Our plays are not setting anything else up for better results, and our talent on offense isn't where guys can dominate individually.

Most of us know that there will be a transition struggle. But, we are doubting that we have a coach or coaches that we need to successfully transition .

I know, I know... give him another year before we make a judgement. But, I only have the data I have. One of the problems is there is so little data.

Perhaps it’s the combination on a young team and a transition. But, the offense has no rhyme or reason. I do like what I see on defense. And I really disliked special teams last year.

I'll give this one more shot.

Based on last year's performance of both GT and Temple, we would have been underdogs at Temple last year.

So why should we have beaten Temple this year, if the data from last year suggests last year's GT team would have been an underdog at last year's Temple?

Look at Sagarin, Football Outsiders, etc. I can't make sense of the opinions that we should auto-win at Temple, much like I couldn't make sense of the arguments that we should have auto-beaten Duke.

 

[jacket_fan]

Enlighten me to how you know this team could have won at least 6 under Johnson.

I said could and here is how,

USF, Citadel, Temple, UNC (gassed after Clemson), Miami (another dumpster fire), Pitt, VT (even bigger dumpster fire), NC State. That is 8 winnable games for an average football team.

 

[danny daniel]

No we wouldn't have. When Johnson had this kind of OL problems he won 3 games.

Agreed about the wins but were were competitive and had hope and looked like we were coached and prepared to play even in losing. The last two weeks we played like an opening game without the benefit of Fall practice.

 

[Animal02]

Agreed about the wins but were were competitive and had hope and looked like we were coached and prepared to play even in losing. The last two weeks we played like an opening game without the benefit of Fall practice.

Six of the nine losses we were within 1 score of win or tie,

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Based on last year's performance of both GT and Temple, we would have been underdogs at Temple last year.

So, in reply, I'd also stipulate that we would have most likely last to Temple last year. The difference being that this year would have been the Triple Option under TO, with an extra year of seasoning. TO, IMO, was getting primed to explode under CPJ. We had a good set of BBs and the AB's didn't worry me. Having Kirvonte back was going to be a huge win for us. Year two under CNW should have seen improvements as well. I really like our chances against Temple this year. Once we changed HCs I immediately reversed that pick.

 

[AlphaBuzz]

I really wonder how many people showed interest in the job.

After the way CPJ (a likely HoF coach) was treated by the "fans" here for winning with the least money spent on the program the past few years, who wants this gig? You win an Orange Bowl, beat the Dwags (at their house no less) 1 out of 3 times, graduate your players and do right by them as Tech men and all you get is grief because we don't win on recruiting sites.

 

[stech81]

I'll give this one more shot.

Based on last year's performance of both GT and Temple, we would have been underdogs at Temple last year.

So why should we have beaten Temple this year, if the data from last year suggests last year's GT team would have been an underdog at last year's Temple?

Look at Sagarin, Football Outsiders, etc. I can't make sense of the opinions that we should auto-win at Temple, much like I couldn't make sense of the arguments that we should have auto-beaten Duke.

Well what is the option , drop down to division 2 ? I think this was thought of years ago

 

[TheTechGuy]

I'll give this one more shot.

Based on last year's performance of both GT and Temple, we would have been underdogs at Temple last year.

So why should we have beaten Temple this year, if the data from last year suggests last year's GT team would have been an underdog at last year's Temple?

Look at Sagarin, Football Outsiders, etc. I can't make sense of the opinions that we should auto-win at Temple, much like I couldn't make sense of the arguments that we should have auto-beaten Duke.

After seeing how Collins, et al. coached against the Citadel, I now feel confident Tech would have beaten Temple last year, regardless of Vegas lines.

 

[White_Gold]

IIrc, Claytor was back-up to Barrick at RT, and Voss was backup to walk-on DT Sean Bedford at Center. Those may be good examples of guys who weren't the best fit for CPJ's system.

I don't remember Hill or Brown playing much, but I wasn't consciously keeping track.

I don’t think Bedford started until 2009 but I may be wrong.

Gardner was injured at some point then Brown took over.