Tech enrollment

[George P. Burdell]

No, it doesn’t. Keep in mind that a boatload of $$ nowadays has to go to “support” (students services like health care, mental health/counseling, academic support, foreign studies programs, career placement, academic advising) rather than to direct instruction. Parents complain about how much a college education costs nowadays, but they never stop to think how much more is demanded of colleges nowadays. No matter how much money GT pulls in on the academic side, it simply isn’t enough to do everything that we are asked to do.

I work in a School that teaches part of the core curriculum for the engineering/science/CS majors. We have a huge student throughput every year, and have to reply heavily on grad TAs in order to support lab/recitation requirements. We are turning away grad students that we need to teach those labs, because we cannot afford to pay the GTA stipend from the resources the Institute provides. We’ve done the math: the $$ we get from the Institute is well below the $$ in tuition that our classes generate. The problem is that GT has to earmark a large fraction of tuition to Institute-level responsibilities.

The simple truth is that 21st-century higher education is governed by a boatload of expensive, non-academic bells and whistles designed to earn a higher USN&WR rating and entice students parents to pick “us” over “them”.

[Sorry. Big soapbox issue for me. I do agree that AT needs more support, too.]

Then why is GT's endowment almost twice as big as UGA and triple of Clemson? Last time I looked GT is top 10 in research expenditures. Alot of people don't realize how much research $$$ dwarfs college football/basketball $$$.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Then why is GT's endowment almost twice as big as UGA and triple of Clemson? Last time I looked GT is top 10 in research expenditures. Alot of people don't realize how much research $$$ dwarfs college football/basketball $$$.

Which are more fun on Saturday?

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

The donations would mostly only swell the endowment and not help where it is needed today. Just my opinion unless there was a way to specifically donate

 

[GTrob21]

I guess I am in the minority. I think we should drastically increase our student population.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

I guess I am in the minority. I think we should drastically increase our student population.

I strongly agree with you

 

[LibertyTurns]

I guess I am in the minority. I think we should drastically increase our student population.

We should double our enrollment, particularly for Engineers. We should not be turning away high caliber legacies, underprivileged high performers, etc. GT should build a strong/large Honors program for the truly amazing, regular classes for the regular brainiacs.

 

[slugboy]

We should double our enrollment, particularly for Engineers. We should not be turning away high caliber legacies, underprivileged high performers, etc. GT should build a strong/large Honors program for the truly amazing, regular classes for the regular brainiacs.

It might be a lot easier to double our student body and keep the quality up than to do the same with the Faculty

 

[LibertyTurns]

It might be a lot easier to double our student body and keep the quality up than to do the same with the Faculty

No doubt, but we should chart a strategy to absolutely dominate all other Engineering schools in terms of size and capabilities. Maybe it takes decades, but taking the Stanford tact of small but elite is not what we should do. our aim point should probably be 30-40k Engineering students. Think we’re about half that now.

 

[forensicbuzz]

No doubt, but we should chart a strategy to absolutely dominate all other Engineering schools in terms of size and capabilities. Maybe it takes decades, but taking the Stanford tact of small but elite is not what we should do. our aim point should probably be 30-40k Engineering students. Think we’re about half that now.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you but, why? Tech is an elite elite engineering school. How does doubling the size of our engineering program help our graduates out in Industry?

If you wanted to double the size of our College of Liberal Arts, I could understand that. If we were to add a law school, I could understand that. If we were to add a medical school or nursing school, I could see that. But doubling our engineering program? Not sure I follow.

 

[LibertyTurns]

@forensicbuzz When you look at the Institute in totality, we’re trying to cling onto our elitist heritage. We have 4.0 GPA, high board score, lots of extracurricular legacy type applicants being left at the doorstep. We have not enough room for the “reaches”, kids from backgrounds that can’t afford computers and trips to Europe, etc.

We already have a high percentage of graduates leave Georgia, therefore we don’t/ haven’t built a dominating presence in the local area. We’re playing a losing strategy & yeah, it’s great if you’re the smartest guy in the room in a room full of smart people. It doesn’t play well if you’re being told go somewhere else for a year and reapply.

We’re just missing opportunities to build a real regional & national presence instead of being just a smallish niche school.

 

[forensicbuzz]

@forensicbuzz When you look at the Institute in totality, we’re trying to cling onto our elitist heritage. We have 4.0 GPA, high board score, lots of extracurricular legacy type applicants being left at the doorstep. We have not enough room for the “reaches”, kids from backgrounds that can’t afford computers and trips to Europe, etc.

We already have a high percentage of graduates leave Georgia, therefore we don’t/ haven’t built a dominating presence in the local area. We’re playing a losing strategy & yeah, it’s great if you’re the smartest guy in the room in a room full of smart people. It doesn’t play well if you’re being told go somewhere else for a year and reapply.

We’re just missing opportunities to build a regional & national presence instead of being just a smallish niche school.

Georgia Tech is required by law to have 60% instate admissions minimum. If 4000 new kids com in as undergrads each year, then 2400 in-state kids are being accepted. Let’s say 1/2 are engineering, that’s 1200 in-state engineering students per year coming into the program. (These are guesses because I don’t want to take the time to look this up.)

We have a 97% graduation rate now, so we don’t have that 2/3 drop off we used to have. That means almost 1200 new engineers with ties to the state are being released back into the Georgia wild every year. That’s a lot of engineers for jobs in the state of Georgia each year. Some will go elsewhere, others from elsewhere will stay. It probably balances out.

On top of all this, I’m not sure how many 4.0, high Board scores, lots of extra curriculars are actually being turned away. I realize there have been several mentioned here, but this may be a very small population. You’re talking about doubling the engineering undergraduate population. We already offer about 7,000 kids a year. Only 41% accept.

I’m all for bigger and better, as long as it’s better not just bigger.

 

[bke1984]

We all know getting out in four years is a challenge, but the senior class is larger than the freshman and sophomore classes combined.

I think that’s basically 4th year + 5th year. 5 year plan is probably pretty typical. Add in transfers and it makes sense.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I help recruit GT candidates in Florida. A large percentage are accepted, few enroll. Parents are being asked to fund almost $150k where they can send their kids to UF, FSU, etc for about $30k. Most are told scholarships are available, but out of dozens we’ve managed to get 1 low income kid enough to make the costs equivalent. We leave a lot of talent on the table to become UF, etc legacies.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I help recruit GT candidates in Florida. A large percentage are accepted, few enroll. Parents are being asked to fund almost $150k where they can send their kids to UF, FSU, etc for about $30k. Most are told scholarships are available, but out of dozens we’ve managed to get 1 low income kid enough to make the costs equivalent. We leave a lot of talent on the table to become UF, etc legacies.

So are you arguing that we need to increase enrollment because there are enough under-privileged and legacy applications to warrant doubling out engineering enrollment or that we need to better fund scholarships so that out-of-state lower income kids can come attend?

I’m okay discussing either, but your second comment doesn’t seem to jive with your first. Maybe they’re intentionally unrelated and I just tied them together myself.

As for underprivileged and low income applicants/enrollees from Florida, GT is a state school. It’s primary purpose is to serve the needs of Georgia kids and families. I think any instate kid that can get into GT should afford to go.

For Florida kids, UF, UCF, USF, FSU, and all the other state schools are there to support underprivileged kids. It’s not Georgia Tech’s job as a state-sponsored institution to ensure that out-of-state kids can afford to attend.

I would not have a problem If Georgia, Florida, Alabama, and South Carolina (or Southern states in general) had reciprocity agreements for waiving out-of-state tuition. They have it here in the Midwest and I know bordering counties used to have that agreement.

We leave a lot of talent for many other schools to pick up. So does Cal, UVA, Illinois, Michigan, Perdue, Texas, and other elite engineering programs at public schools.

 

[LibertyTurns]

@forensicbuzz We have 13,300 undergrad students enrolled “exclusively” which is GT’s terminology I think for full time students. The rest are online, grad students, etc. We are not a big school. Ugag is 30k, Bammer is 38k, Clemson is 23k.

 

[forensicbuzz]

@forensicbuzz We have 13,300 undergrad students enrolled “exclusively” which is GT’s terminology I think for full time students. The rest are online, grad students, etc. We are not a big school. Ugag is 30k, Bammer is 38k, Clemson is 23k.

I agree we’re not a big school. We also offer half the majors of the three schools you mentioned. I’m sorry, I’m not trying to be argumentative, I just don’t understand what point you’re trying to make.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I agree we’re not a big school. We also offer half the majors of the three schools you mentioned. I’m sorry, I’m not trying to be argumentative, I just don’t understand what point you’re trying to make.

GT can be dominant & we can maintain our dominance only by growing the brand. We’ve got a phenomenal elite Engineering school, we’ve got a great upcoming Business school. If we’re going to compete in the future & I’m including cutting-edge R&D in this conversation not just sports, then GT is going to need to grow into a powerhouse not just keeping our small niche healthy. The reason we have not to this point is not due to lack of qualified candidates, it’s self-imposed constraints. We can sustain & grow not only the elite parts of the Institute, but if we’re smart we’ll develop a huge foundational base. We should be much bigger than we are right now & if you don't think the mutts up the road are not trying to neuter us by starting up an Engineering school for the more normal type engineers, not just the super smart, we’re just kidding ourselves.

We’re swimming against the current if we think we’re going to attract hordes of fans & have limited access. We’re turning off what otherwise would be staunch supporters by driving their kids, grandkids, elsewhere for education. It does not have to be this way. We can have a much larger & much healthier GT if we start competing at every level, not just the elite ones. And yeah, some of our grads even needs to go into non-sexy types jobs like education & not be educated by the barking ****bags up the road. We gotta stop acting like those types of professions are somehow beneath us.

 

[forensicbuzz]

GT can be dominant & we can maintain our dominance only by growing the brand. We’ve got a phenomenal elite Engineering school, we’ve got a great upcoming Business school. If we’re going to compete in the future & I’m including cutting-edge R&D in this conversation not just sports, then GT is going to need to grow into a powerhouse not just keeping our small niche healthy. The reason we have not to this point is not due to lack of qualified candidates, it’s self-imposed constraints. We can sustain & grow not only the elite parts of the Institute, but if we’re smart we’ll develop a huge foundational base. We should be much bigger than we are right now & if you don't think the mutts up the road are not trying to neuter us by starting up an Engineering school for the more normal type engineers, not just the super smart, we’re just kidding ourselves.

We’re swimming against the current if we think we’re going to attract hordes of fans & have limited access. We’re turning off what otherwise would be staunch supporters by driving their kids, grandkids, elsewhere for education. It does not have to be this way. We can have a much larger & much healthier GT if we start competing at every level, not just the elite ones. And yeah, some of our grads even needs to go into non-sexy types jobs like education & not be educated by the barking ****bags up the road. We gotta stop acting like those types of professions are somehow beneath us.

Okay, you have my head spinning now. So, now is seems you're talking about increasing enrollment (not just engineering, but everything) to increase the fanbase? I thought this was about increasing the size of our engineering school because too many kids were being left out. Now it seems like you're talking about in-state kids (competing against uga as educators, non-sexy jobs, etc.), not Florida kids or underprivileged kids. Again, I'm not arguing against what you're saying, just trying to wrap my head around what you really are trying to

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

GT is absolutely leaving high quality Georgia state kids behind. The admission process is really just a random process anymore hidden behind phrases such as “holistic” etc. It’s the same at UGA. I had a family member get accepted early to GT and waitlisted at UGA and another who had a better SAT score get regular admission at GT. It didn’t make sense. Even the kids know it. As one of them said the best process was at Bama. Send in your GPA, ACT, and SAT along with a brief description of extra curriculars and bam that’s it. It’s actually based on merit and direct comparisons instead of unmeasurables.

 

[hotpocketsyum]

Tech should absolutely add more people but the biggest barrier to that is on campus housing. With how expensive real estate is, and with tech already buying as much local land as possible, its really expanding vertically or nothing at all. Once you get large enough there, other building should have to expand.
With going "up", you'd obviously lose existing spots, so it would have to be short term losses for long term gains.