Team overall ceiling

[Jmonty71]

Just curious. The new coach has been in place for a little while. Has anyone seen drastic improvements? Seems we are still a team that isn't good enough to make it to the any post season dances. Just wondering if I am the only one, that sees a low ceiling? I really had better expectations, I guess. Please no bashing posters, coaches or players. Just some general, realistic discussions. I think we're a little better, than 3 years ago. But, not as good, as I would like. I hope that makes sense.

 

[crut]

I want to see the team with Usher and Alvarado on the floor with Devoe, Banks, and either Moses or Khalid. This is annoying that we are very mediocre right now but we are also playing 2 men down. I'm reserving judgement till then.

 

[Ramblingon]

I want to see the team with Usher and Alvarado on the floor with Devoe, Banks, and either Moses or Khalid. This is annoying that we are very mediocre right now but we are also playing 2 men down. I'm reserving judgement till then.

What he said. And hope for better.

 

[Buzzbomb]

Counterpoint. The NCAA gives you 13 schollies. That way, awaiting a transfer and an injured player doesn’t derail half the season(particularly some of the winnable games, non-conference). Unless you are a Bobby Cremins, with talent that plays 6 or 7 in the star system.

In GTWBB where the program was clearly down, compounded by losing two McD’s AA Freshmen and the top incoming recruit, Nell & Staff went out and got 4 top 100 players within months of taking the job. The dark cloud has been lifted, while the program is poised to keep winning. And no, we have had zero top 25 finishes in the recent past to build on.

 

[RamblinCharger]

If recruiting, outside of getting Devoe, was solid in the 18 and 19 classes we would be a solid team with a real chance to win 20-22 games. Unfortunately, it was pretty bad, so we have no real depth and our guard play isn't very good. Josh also sucks at coaching offense, but I think offense in college ball comes down to having quality players. I think our ceiling this year is probably .500 now for this season. We couldn't afford to lose to UGA and Arkansas, and getting stomped by Syracuse was just ridiculous. Need to land some really good players in the 21 class after a solid 20 class, or time will be up for this staff.

 

[crut]

Counterpoint. The NCAA gives you 13 schollies. That way, awaiting a transfer and an injured player doesn’t derail half the season(particularly some of the winnable games, non-conference). Unless you are a Bobby Cremins, with talent that plays 6 or 7 in the star system.

In GTWBB where the program was clearly down, compounded by losing two McD’s AA Freshmen and the top incoming recruit, Nell & Staff went out and got 4 top 100 players within months of taking the job. The dark cloud has been lifted, while the program is poised to keep winning. And no, we have had zero top 25 finishes in the recent past to build on.

Counterpoint to your counterpoint. Outside of maybe 2 or 3 schools, there isn't a big difference in resources for women's basketball programs. It looks like ADTS nailed the hire, and that 1 aspect alone can push a program to the top very quickly. It doesn't work like that on the men's side because the amount of resources needed to compete with the elite is so high. You have to build up, you don't just instantly become a great program in men's basketball.

 

[Buzzbomb]

Counterpoint to your counterpoint. Outside of maybe 2 or 3 schools, there isn't a big difference in resources for women's basketball programs. It looks like ADTS nailed the hire, and that 1 aspect alone can push a program to the top very quickly. It doesn't work like that on the men's side because the amount of resources needed to compete with the elite is so high. You have to build up, you don't just instantly become a great program in men's basketball.

That is so not true. You would need to understand WBB. It’s very segregated into the haves and have nots. We have 1 Sweet 16 appearance in the HISTORY of our program. Unfortunately GTWBB never expanded upon that. It takes more than the HC. It takes a staff to recruit. The culture has to change. The process. There are more than 2 or 3 schools putting the money in. No, we are not a pink-blood.

 

[YlJacket]

The ceiling on this team - at this point in time - is now so dependent on how Usher comes in and plays that it is really hard to say. As we have slumped with Jose gone, the perception of Usher has gone from a 6th man energy guy to the full time starter that will solve all our ills. More than likely somewhere in between.

FWIW at this time I don't see Usher replacing Moses given how Moses is playing which means he replaces either Moore or a really slumping Banks. Not sure how CJP will dole out his minutes.

At this point we still have the potential to be a bubble type team but a whole lot of things have to go right to get there. Approaching eye of the needle status.

 

[crut]

That is so not true. You would need to understand WBB. It’s very segregated into the haves and have nots. We have 1 Sweet 16 appearance in the HISTORY of our program. Unfortunately GTWBB never expanded upon that. It takes more than the HC. It takes a staff to recruit. The culture has to change. The process. There are more than 2 or 3 schools putting the money in. No, we are not a pink-blood.

The resources are different, but the overall volume of disparity is not in the same ballpark as men's basketball. Duke basketball vs GT men's basketball has 10x the resource disparity as compared to Baylor vs. GT in women's basketball

 

[forensicbuzz]

Color me very impressed with how Khalid Moore is playing.

 

[lv20gt]

Counterpoint. The NCAA gives you 13 schollies. That way, awaiting a transfer and an injured player doesn’t derail half the season(particularly some of the winnable games, non-conference). Unless you are a Bobby Cremins, with talent that plays 6 or 7 in the star system.

That would be true if we were talking about a role player. The fact there is 13 scholarships doesn't mean losing your most important player won't have a huge impact.

 

[glandon1960]

I want to see the team with Usher and Alvarado on the floor with Devoe, Banks, and either Moses or Khalid. This is annoying that we are very mediocre right now but we are also playing 2 men down. I'm reserving judgement till then.

Ditto - need to see the team at full strength before passing judgement on this years team. The eye test sees it as the most talented team CJP has had. Next years should be better than this. Also worth noting that the ACC schedule is VERY frontloaded with the (on paper) toughest games .... more than one poster has noted the schedule is setup to possibly win 8 or 9 of last 10.

Observation to date - Devoe and Parham 'can' play the point, but it impacts both of their ability to score. Alvarado at the point with one (or both) of them on the wings will likely be more potent on offense. This team (all most of our teams the last decade) have lacked a player that can create their own shot (i.e. Anthony Edwards at UGA, Cole Anthony at UNC, etc.) - which means movement, screening, passing (quick/good decisions) are necessary to have high efficieny in the half court offense. The lack of landing the player that can create their own shot is the biggest thing in recruiting (and I know it is not easy to get those coveted players).

I expect starting lineup to stay the same once Usher is back (Alvarado will start once ready to go). Usher likely first one in for the '3-4-5' to hopefully bring energy, Parham fisrt in for the '1-2' (once Alvarado is back). I expect to see less minutes across the board for the current 7-8 that play, but Parham and Price, and Moses (when he is 'not on') will see minutes reduced the most.

 

[MiracleWhips]

The ceiling on this team - at this point in time - is now so dependent on how Usher comes in and plays that it is really hard to say. As we have slumped with Jose gone, the perception of Usher has gone from a 6th man energy guy to the full time starter that will solve all our ills. More than likely somewhere in between.

FWIW at this time I don't see Usher replacing Moses given how Moses is playing which means he replaces either Moore or a really slumping Banks. Not sure how CJP will dole out his minutes.

At this point we still have the potential to be a bubble type team but a whole lot of things have to go right to get there. Approaching eye of the needle status.

Don’t think he would sit bubba at this point? pastber sounded enthused about moving Khalid to point for the time being on GT60

 

[YlJacket]

A lineup of Banks, Moses, Usher, Moore and DeVoe?
Pretty light on shooting and I wasn't overly impressed with Moore at the point against KY.
But I am the first to admit I don't have a good sense of where CJP will put Usher, so don't take my view as anything near gospel.

That lineup could be a hellacious defensive lineup though. Look at winning games in the 40s

 

[Buzzbomb]

The resources are different, but the overall volume of disparity is not in the same ballpark as men's basketball. Duke basketball vs GT men's basketball has 10x the resource disparity as compared to Baylor vs. GT in women's basketball

I’d like to see a comparison, if you wouldn’t mind displaying WBB UConn’s total budget including coaching salaries vs. GTWBB and MBB Duke vs. GTMBB?

 

[Buzzbomb]

That would be true if we were talking about a role player. The fact there is 13 scholarships doesn't mean losing your most important player won't have a huge impact.

So Jose had 2 pts. vs. Ga., and that’s why we lost? Do you think he could have made up the 34 point difference vs. Syracuse? What about Kentucky on the road(they were without Nate Sestina, arguably one of their best players along with Hagans)?

 

[GT11]

So Jose had 2 pts. vs. Ga., and that’s why we lost? Do you think he could have made up the 34 point difference vs. Syracuse? What about Kentucky on the road(they were without Nate Sestina, arguably one of their best players along with Hagans)?

Jose frees up the other players as the point guard. Devoe is a spot up shooter. Nobody would have helped against Cuse. We just play bad. It was like last years game at Cuse where we blew them out and they could do nothing

 

[Buzzbomb]

Jose frees up the other players as the point guard. Devoe is a spot up shooter. Nobody would have helped against Cuse. We just play bad. It was like last years game at Cuse where we blew them out and they could do nothing

Duh!

 

[GTbball2016]

So Jose had 2 pts. vs. Ga., and that’s why we lost? Do you think he could have made up the 34 point difference vs. Syracuse? What about Kentucky on the road(they were without Nate Sestina, arguably one of their best players along with Hagans)?

That’s where the problem lies. Pastner has put all his eggs in the Alvarado basket for 3 years now, and he is a solid player but definitely not elite. Due to injuries, etc, there has not been as much improvement since he started here as you would have hoped.

 

[CLM]

We are favored by 6? Why are we playing such hard teams every game? Need to have a few cupcakes.