Team Chaplain

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Sideways

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No one is saying we are a "Christian nation" however some of us who are Christian are sick and tired of having PC bull **** shoved down our throats. It is what it is. Incidentally, the Founding Fathers especially Washington were emphatic that the Christian faith was a bedrock principal in the guidance of our early government.
 

AE 87

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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

America is not a Christian country. America, as a country, has no established religion. I'm sorry. We may be predominantly Christian, but our government is not officially a Christian state. However if some of you try hard enough we can be just like Saudi Arabia and Iran, and have a state religion. #maga

LOL. Overreact much?
 

potatohead

Ramblin' Wreck
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No one is saying we are a "Christian nation" however some of us who are Christian are sick and tired of having PC bull **** shoved down our throats. It is what it is. Incidentally, the Founding Fathers especially Washington were emphatic that the Christian faith was a bedrock principal in the guidance of our early government.

What's pc about believing in our constitution? And yes, the ironic "pc bull****" post. Funny, to me, you and the whiny libs are the different sides to the same coin. God help us from you both.
 

JKMSJ

Jolly Good Fellow
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What's pc about believing in our constitution? And yes, the ironic "pc bull****" post. Funny, to me, you and the whiny libs are the different sides to the same coin. God help us from you both.
Don't use the term God help us... you may offend an atheist.
 

potatohead

Ramblin' Wreck
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Which post advocated America establishing a religion?

The post where he specifies that the constitution says freedom of religion not from religion which is a common argument that the state shouldn't be free of religion which in turn is a small step to recognizing an official religion which in turn is a small step to a state enforced religion. And it's that first step that the 1st amendment explicitly tries to prevent.

Please try to keep up or stop commenting. Thanks
 

takethepoints

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Nowhere in the Constitution are the words "separation of church and state" found. The idea of a wall separating church and state comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a group of Baptist pastors who were concerned that the new government would force states to adhere to some kind of established religion. The first amendment makes this abundantly clear with the words "...free exercise thereof..." The first amendment guarantees freedom "of religion" not from religion. The Founding Fathers were wise in many ways permitting our citizens to be drunk or sober, Christian or Jew, religious or not.
That's true and false. If you remember, the "Founders" didn't put anything in the original Constitution about religion. This isn't that surprising since so many of them were deists - predominantly Masons. They weren't against religion per se; they felt, correctly, that religion could temper public life and would be a good way to keep the rabble in line (sorry, but that was it). It was the people in the state conventions that ratified the Constitution that insisted on the freedoms in the 1st Amendment. One of those is that the state wouldn't interfere with religious practice and, sure enough, it usually doesn't. The one in question here involved the justifiable fear that the state might get behind a particular religion with monetary support and religious tests for holding office with the state, like every other country in the world in those days and, in Europe at least, like most still do today to some extent. What Jefferson was saying in his letter was that the state should keep it's grubby hands off all religions when it came to supporting them, a position strictly consistent with the 1st.

As the Potatoe says, this is a secular country with a lot of religious people in it. Those religious folks have virtually unchallenged rein to do just about anything religious from handling snakes to sacrificing chickens. But giving them control over education or any policy favors from government would be a major mistake and we would be wise to never do it.
 

AE 87

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The post where he specifies that the constitution says freedom of religion not from religion which is a common argument that the state shouldn't be free of religion which in turn is a small step to recognizing an official religion which in turn is a small step to a state enforced religion. And it's that first step that the 1st amendment explicitly tries to prevent.

Please try to keep up or stop commenting. Thanks

LOL. So, the answer is no post. I keep up just fine.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
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I believe Derrick Moore is actually employed by FCA and is therefore not a state employee. The issue if any would arise from GT appearing to favor or promote Christianity over other religions.
Yep. That's it. Who the Rev is hired by is beside the point if his religious views are being put on sites associated with Tech itself. It's sort of like having prayers at public school graduation ceremonies. The clergy involved aren't hired by the school involved and usually try to keep the prayers as nondescript as possible. Doesn't matter; if a kid is made uncomfortable by a prayer in a ceremony where, if she (it was a she in this case) doesn't participate she will attract unusual attention and not be able to graduate with her class, it's an establishment of religion. The easiest thing to do is avoid the problem in the first place.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
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Yep. That's it. Who the Rev is hired by is beside the point if his religious views are being put on sites associated with Tech itself. It's sort of like having prayers at public school graduation ceremonies. The clergy involved aren't hired by the school involved and usually try to keep the prayers as nondescript as possible. Doesn't matter; if a kid is made uncomfortable by a prayer in a ceremony where, if she (it was a she in this case) doesn't participate she will attract unusual attention and not be able to graduate with her class, it's an establishment of religion. The easiest thing to do is avoid the problem in the first place.

Start a thread in the Lounge
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
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Incidentally, the Founding Fathers especially Washington were emphatic that the Christian faith was a bedrock principal in the guidance of our early government.
Sorry to be like Adam and ruin everything, but Washington never said any such thing. He often called for thanksgiving or public prayer, but always to God. I can't remember a single quote where he referred to Jesus or Christianity. Not surprising since he was a Mason.

My grandfather, a lifelong supposed Methodist, had it in his will to be buried in a Masonic ceremony. Lots of regret that he had died, lots of mentions about how God had had a hand in his life, but not a word about Jesus, the Trinity, or the resurrection to eternal life. It was interesting to hear that in the woods in Southern Mississippi.
 

collegeballfan

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No one is saying we are a "Christian nation" however some of us who are Christian are sick and tired of having PC bull **** shoved down our throats. It is what it is. Incidentally, the Founding Fathers especially Washington were emphatic that the Christian faith was a bedrock principal in the guidance of our early government.
Good point Sideways. Washington is the one who added "So help me God." to the end of the oath to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
But. That Constitution is still the most religion neutral Constitution in existence.
 

dressedcheeseside

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This thread is about what, exactly....?

Let's try to keep both religion and politics out the FOOTBALL forum pulleeze, fellas?

I was thinking our mods must be sleeping but we're all big boys and girls....
 

orientalnc

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Retired Staff
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Don't use the term God help us... you may offend an atheist.
I am not an atheist and the phrase "God help us" does not offend me. But, having Christianity crammed down my throat every day gets very tiresome. D Mo does a good job motivating and counseling our players from all I hear, so I do not object. I love his motivational speeches. He usually has just the right amount of spirituality without overt Christianity. He is a real asset to our team and individual players.
 
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