Stephen Hill cut from Panthers

[dressedcheeseside]

I wonder if people actually do research before commenting. It's not sacreligious to compare certain players to what we perceive as "great players". NFL is full of guys who are physically equal, it's just their football ability and ability to process that separates them.

http://optimumscouting.com/draft/nfl-draft-failed-stephen-hill-wide-receiver.html

The legend only grew when Hill traveled to the annual Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. Evaluators knew Hill was a high level athlete, but there is always something about seeing it in a quantifiable form. Hill absolutely blew up the event. His 40-yard dash time (4.34) and broad jump distance (11’1”) were in the 96th and 98th percentile amongst wide receivers drafted since 1999, per MockDraftable. Most of his other tests were not far off, and he did all of this after measuring in at 6’4 and 215 pounds. Hill proved he was one of the more physically gifted wideouts to enter the NFL. It was that promise that prompted the playmaker needy Jets to trade up, and select Stephen Hill in the second round of the draft.

You don't get drafted as high as Hill did with the production he had in college without being a physically elite prospect that coaches feel they can mold. Physically, Hill checks all the boxes Megatron and DT did. Football wise, that's another story...

Being physically gifted and playing physical are two totally different things. Hill didn't play physical, imo. He also dropped a ton of passes. He also washed out of the NFL. Go figure.

 

[RamblinCharger]

If I'm following correctly... Techster was simply originally saying that Hill has the overall physical gifts that equal some of the greats like DT and Calvin. I think we can all agree that he has the speed, jumping ability, and honestly probably is close to being as strong as those guys as well, but what others have mentioned he isn't as thick, so therefore he may not be as physical.

In my opinion, being physical probably doesn't have that much to do with the 10-15 pounds that he is missing from DT or Calvin. It has more to do with want to and mentality. DT will viciously stiff arm dudes back into their mothers wombs, and I don't think weighing 10-15 pounds more gives you the ability to do that, you just have to want it. Calvin would out jump and outmuscle anyone on every single jump ball. I think Stephen has the physical ability to do those things as well, but I'm not sure if he has the same mental drive that those guys have. It also hurts that he has butterfingers and serious mental hiccups running routes. Overall I just don't think it ever fully clicked with Stephen, which is unfortunate, because he has the physical tools.

 

[Techster]

Being physically gifted and playing physical are two totally different things. Hill didn't play physical, imo. He also dropped a ton of passes. He also washed out of the NFL. Go figure.

Why do people keep wanting to equate physical talent with football ability? That's not the argument.

If Hill was as gifted with football ability as he was with his physical talents, he'd be an all-timer. He's looking for a team for a reason.

 

[Techster]

If I'm following correctly... Techster was simply originally saying that Hill has the overall physical gifts that equal some of the greats like DT and Calvin. I think we can all agree that he has the speed, jumping ability, and honestly probably is close to being as strong as those guys as well, but what others have mentioned he isn't as thick, so therefore he may not be as physical.

In my opinion, being physical probably doesn't have that much to do with the 10-15 pounds that he is missing from DT or Calvin. It has more to do with want to and mentality. DT will viciously stiff arm dudes back into their mothers wombs, and I don't think weighing 10-15 pounds more gives you the ability to do that, you just have to want it. Calvin would out jump and outmuscle anyone on every single jump ball. I think Stephen has the physical ability to do those things as well, but I'm not sure if he has the same mental drive that those guys have. It also hurts that he has butterfingers and serious mental hiccups running routes. Overall I just don't think it ever fully clicked with Stephen, which is unfortunate, because he has the physical tools.

Probably explained it better than me, but then again, sometimes fans think some players are "untouchable" and shouldn't be compared to others if their careers don't match up.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Why do people keep wanting to equate physical talent with football ability? That's not the argument.

If Hill was as gifted with football ability as he was with his physical talents, he'd be an all-timer. He's looking for a team for a reason.

I count strength right along with speed and ups when looking at a wr prospect. Hand/eye coordination is another very important one if that's the gift that helps catching the damn ball. I don't put Hill in the same league as Calvin or Bay Bay in either of those two metrics.

Hill is very athletic, but to put him equally with those two guys is just flat out wrong, imo.

What exactly is "football ability" anyway? Understanding of the game? What? I can list a handful of intangibles I think he was lacking if that's what you mean. focus
will
determination
work ethic
heart
toughness

 

[inGTwetrust]

Athleticism is not just speed. Calvin is 1 inch taller and has a 3" bigger vert. Calvin had a longer broad jump. The fact that he outweighs stephen by 25 lbs makes this more impressive. Calvin has superior hands. Those are all part of a human beings physical talents.



Like I said. If we are arguing speed I do agree and don't take that away from Hill. If we are arguing their entire physical ability then they aren't the same.

 

[inGTwetrust]

I don't thunk the weight makes a player more physical. I do think it makes the speed and agility that much more impressive.

 

[Techster]

I count strength right along with speed and ups when looking at a wr prospect. Hand/eye coordination is another very important one if that's the gift that helps catching the damn ball. I don't put Hill in the same league as Calvin or Bay Bay in either of those two metrics.

Hill is very athletic, but to put him equally with those two guys is just flat out wrong, imo.

What exactly is "football ability" anyway? Understanding of the game? What? I can list a handful of intangibles I think he was lacking if that's what you mean. focus
will
determination
work ethic
heart
toughness

Hill made some INCREDIBLE catches...I mean rediculously good catches. You have to have good hand eye coordination to make some of the catches he did. Then he would drop a an routine one. He was just a very inconsistent player.



Hill was actually a very good blocker. You don't play as a true freshmen or start in this offense if you can't block. He was physical enough to put a DB on his behind on a smoke route and take it the house. It just all boils down to consistency and his ability to process. Incredibly good athlete. Not a very good football player.

 

[Skeptic]

You do understand what "physical talents" means, right? As you said, all three are equal (in certain regards as the link I provided shows). I didn't say Hill was better/equal in everything...I just said "As physically gifted as any WR GT has had". Size, speed, athleticism...Hill ranks right there or ahead in some instances. OK, Hill isn't as "thick"...so what? Randy Moss was 210 lbs...but he was considered physically gifted because of the same things Hill was considered physically gifted for.

I mean, the data points are there. I'm not sure why this is really a discussion. The only thing Stephen lacks is the ability to put those physical talents to use in the football world, and that's why he's looking for a team.

So you are saying that the "soft hands" great ball catchers have is not a physical gift? Or that 20+ pounds of weight and heft and superior speed are not physical gifts in excess of what Hill brought? Look, I was rooting for the kid every Saturday and died every time he muffed a bread-basket catch. It is one thing to run the same 40 times, if they did -- and nope, i didn't look -- but at the end of the 40 one of them would be disciplined and under control, and one would not .. and muff the thing. He got off to a great start in NY as I recall, and then the heebiee jeebies set in again and never left. That ability to run all out but under control is a physical gift if anything is. I hope the kid comes back. I'm just not betting my lunch money on it.

 

[UgaBlows]

His route running can best be described as- "running around like a chicken with it's head cut off"

 

[Techster]

So you are saying that the "soft hands" great ball catchers have is not a physical gift? Or that 20+ pounds of weight and heft and superior speed are not physical gifts in excess of what Hill brought? Look, I was rooting for the kid every Saturday and died every time he muffed a bread-basket catch. It is one thing to run the same 40 times, if they did -- and nope, i didn't look -- but at the end of the 40 one of them would be disciplined and under control, and one would not .. and muff the thing. He got off to a great start in NY as I recall, and then the heebiee jeebies set in again and never left. That ability to run all out but under control is a physical gift if anything is. I hope the kid comes back. I'm just not betting my lunch money on it.

Oy...I've said all I'm gonna say on this. It's not just me that has my opinion of Hill, it's people who do this for a living.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012shill.php
http://optimumscouting.com/draft/nfl-draft-failed-stephen-hill-wide-receiver.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-georgia-tech-wr-stephen-hill-scouting-report
http://www.catscratchreader.com/201...ct-comparison-stephen-hill-vs-demaryiusthomas

BTW, how's this for his physical gifts: Varsity starter for multiple years on a one of the best HS basketball teams in GA Miller Grove, and still holds GA's HS long jump record in track and field.

Agree or not, that's your perogative.

 

[stingyoa$$]

People can disagree about his production but the kid still made millions in his couple years in the NFL. Good for Stephen!