Star Debate/Ratings thread

[Eric]

I am saying that talent vs talent... GSU doesn't belong in the same sentence with UF. They won a game that they couldn't win again if they re-played it.

Theres no way to prove that

 

[Boomergump]

Regardless of what some think on here the rankings make a difference on the field. Eventually.

Earlier, on a different board I did a quick study taking the last 5 years worth of recruiting data for all of our opponents. GT's record against those who recruited better than us and those who recruited worse was about the same. Now, lets look at the University of Florida. This year, they are guaranteed a losing season, have lost 6 in a row, and will not go to a bowl. In recent years, they haven't been a huge factor on the national scene either. Here are their national class rankings for the last 5 years (using rivals), accounting for every player that might be on the field today: 2009 (11), 2010 (2), 2011 (12), 2012 (3), 2013 (4). They have averaged a top 6 class for 5 years running!

I agree recruiting has a major influence on success. I just don't think the "recruiting services" are equipped to measure or rank them in any meaningful way.

 

[IronJacket7]

Well if talent was the only that won FB games then why did GSU beat them on Sat??? *BREAKING NEWS UPDATE* There's more to a football game then how talented the teams are...

Thanks for the breaking news update.
GSU is well coached, organized, and most importantly they are motivated in a game like this.
UF is not well coached, organzed, and most importantly they were not motivated in this game.

You are right there are a plethora of things that can impact the outcome of a game. Such as; Turnovers, Injuries, Fluke Plays, Coaching / Game Plan, etc....

But ask yourself this question... And then hopefully you and everyone else will understand my point.

If you were a HC and you had to pick which roster your team had to start game 1 of the season with, would you pick UF's roster or GSU's roster?

Talent doesn't always prevail. You are correct. But if I had to chose I had rather have more talent on my team than the opposing team. Talent will win 80 to 90 percent of the time.

Oh, do you need proof??? UGA over the last 12 years has average class ranking of 8. GT average class ranking over the last 12 years is 55. We have won 1 out of 12 in the last 12 games we have played them.

Will we win Saturday like GSU? Its possible and I hope we do. But the odds even with UGA's injuries are stacked against us. The odds have been stacked against us for the last 12 years and then some. Which is why they lead the series by 20 plus games.

Ever since we left the SEC it has been a disaster in the UGA vs GT series for us.

 

[IronJacket7]

I agree recruiting has a major influence on success. I just don't think the "recruiting services" are equipped to measure or rank them in any meaningful way.

I agree with this. I think the recruiting services get it right maybe 70% of the time. You know 5 star flunkies that end up nowhere and 2 star sleepers that make it to the NFL.

 

[IronJacket7]

Theres no way to prove that

No?

If you were a HC and you had to pick which roster your team had to start game 1 of the season with, would you pick UF's roster or GSU's roster?

 

[Eric]

No?

If you were a HC and you had to pick which roster your team had to start game 1 of the season with, would you pick UF's roster or GSU's roster?

I would take UF's roster over almost anyone's... there's more to football than that. So you're saying if UF played Vandy 9 more times they would win them all? And if we played USC 9 more times last year they would beat us? How bout if Miami played Duke 9 more times?

Still does nothing to prove that UF would beat GSU 9 times if they played it again.

 

[IronJacket7]

You are correct. I cannot "prove" that it would happen. But I am merely suggesting that talent vs. talent UF in all "probability" is going to win the majority of the games it plays against a Division II talent level based GSU.

 

[Eric]

The talent at UF is good...the coaching, motivation and effort is putrid.

Look at Texas and the ratings they have in recruiting...talk about underachieving.

 

[IronJacket7]

Having a more talented recruiting class does not guarantee or prove that you are going to be successful or win x amount of games. However, having a more talented recruiting class does put more talented players on your team. Great players make great coaches.

 

[IronJacket7]

The talent at UF is good...the coaching, motivation and effort is putrid.

Look at Texas and the ratings they have in recruiting...talk about underachieving.

I agree about Texas. However, Eric if GT consistently landed a consensus top 10 recruiting class over a 10 year period... just in theory... would you not tend to get more excited because you felt that our probability of success on the field with more talent would be higher?

Just using Top 10 as an example. I would be satisfied with 20 to 30 ranked classes every year. Instead of 55 average over 10 years. Jmho

 

[AE 87]

Is this a fair assessment of the current debate?
1. Everyone agrees that, everything else being equal, better talent results in better teams
IJ7 says that between UF and GSU, the team with vastly better talent will in all probability win the majority of games
Eric says that between UF and GSU, you can't assume the situation is so close to "everything else being equal" to make that conclusion

Is that fair?

 

[IronJacket7]

Is this a fair assessment of the current debate?
1. Everyone agrees that, everything else being equal, better talent results in better teams
IJ7 says that between UF and GSU, the team with vastly better talent will in all probability win the majority of games
Eric says that between UF and GSU, you can't assume the situation is so close to "everything else being equal" to make that conclusion

Is that fair?

Yes that is accurate. I am not trying to debate this stuff. I just want better for GT. WE ALL DO.

 

[IronJacket7]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/hot?id=9395142

This is an adequate comparison of our discussion. I believe.

 

[Boomergump]

To compare UF to GSU and look at that single game in a vacuum is meaningless. Trends are what matters. Any team can lose to another team on a given day, even if they are having a banner year. UF has had issues all year long against everybody. Their record in no way reflects their recruiting rankings, and I am not just talking about a single class. This is 5 years of data.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that recruiting service rankings are the gospel and 100 percent reliable. How bad would UF's coaching have to be to get these results? I don't like Muttchamp, but he and his staff can't be THAT bad. I mean, he would have to be down right committing sabotage to get the results he has. I am sure that isn't happening. He has been able to coach other places well enough to earn a shot as HC.

The truth, as it normally does, lies somewhere in the middle. Class rankings are nothing more than insecure cfb fan cannon fodder and coaching / program quality makes a difference but it isn't the be all end all either. There isn't THAT big a difference between programs and the message they are getting from coaches. We can all see superior talent when we lay eyes on it during games. The problem is, we get to see it after the fact. By that time, all the over-rated (by recruiting services) losers have been weeded out of their team's rosters or are sitting on 3rd string. The accurate measure of a class really can't happen until about 3 years after they sign. The one thing we can ALL agree on is that superior talent tips the scales way in your favor. EVERY team, all the way up through the NFL, is trying to perfect their system for locating talent reliably. It is not an exact science. The resources applied by teams, for their own program's needs, are substantial and expensive. I guarantee you, none of them are SO confident in their methods that they feel they can rest on them. The FACT is, that they still miss on a substantial percentage of their picks. There is no way in he!! a few geeks, sitting in their basement with their computer, are going to be able to accurately rank the massive number of players being recruited, when professional people can't, for the limited number of guys they are targeting. It just isn't going to happen.

 

[IronJacket7]

The truth, as it normally does, lies somewhere in the middle.

This

 

[GTonTop88]

So whoever finishes #1 in recruiting should automatically get the NC trophy? I agree stars do matter, but not as much as a lot of people think. Work ethic, football knowledge, and intensity are solid things to go after in a player. You have some 3 stars out perform 5 stars all day. Yea that 5 star might show flashes of greatness on a play here and there but I'd rather have a solid 3 star who gets his job done. If that 5 star every makes one incredible play then your pressured to keep him on the field because of his potential, rather than production.