Snap to QB

[gtrower]

He said that it "get in the hands of the running back faster". This is probably, literally true. I wish whoever asked the question would have followed up with why NFL teams have short yard formations under center and why we do not if we are trying to be a pro based offense. If their plan is to never be under center I would just like to hear their rationale. I also wish we would have had a shotgun package for third and nine+ under CPJ.

Here is my response from the "Bye Week Media" thread when we initially discussed it

I’d be interested to see those numbers for time it takes to get the ball to the RB under center and in the gun. Also how close to the LOS the RB is in both cases. It doesn’t make any sense to me to give the RB further to run when the defense is likely to be playing run.

Also IIRC we were one of the better 3rd/4th and long teams in the country under CPJ. That’s not to say a shotgun package couldn’t have helped in situations.

 

[iopjacket]

I’m pretty sure Tebow+Chris Leak used to take goalline snaps from the gun.

It doesn’t particularly matter so long as you have a system/set of plays that work off each other and have consistent snaps.

In general I agree, but lack of consistent snaps and other offensive line issues support taking snaps under center in short yardage situations for the near future.

 

[GCdaJuiceMan]

Tobias is a legit jump pass threat. Should be in our arsenal!

My dad an I spoke about this exact thing after the Clemson game and that awful goal line possession. Would have been tough against that defense but I always liked that play when an offense like ours is built on the run.

 

[99in99]

He wasn’t talking about Johnson’s offense he was asked about goal line and short yardage situations.

A QB getting the ball under center is 6 yards closer to the goal line / short-yardage-line than he is from the shotgun when he finally gets the ball. That's indisputable.

 

[99in99]

It doesn't matter which offense he is talking about. A snap under center is definitely faster than a snap in the shotgun formation. And WTH would anybody think that adding another couple of yards distance to the end zone or the first down marker would work better than a couple of feet?

yes, a simple application of Distance = Rate x Time applied to both the snap and the handoff-distance-to-LOS easily proves your hypothesis IMO.

Maybe for RPO, shotgun is better since a QB has more vision but it still adheres to the laws of physics and time in regards to how long the ball takes to get to QB's hands.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Here is my opinion on this topic.

Its a legitimate question as to if the RB can get to the line quicker whether the QB is in shotgun formation or under center. But what are we talking about - 0.1 seconds? 0.3 seconds? I don't know.

The more material issue to me is just our offensive play execution. The troubles we're having on offense far overshadow a tenth of a second difference here or there. My opinion.

 

[stech81]

I think they need to quit talking about Johnson’s offense and start figuring out their offense.

We have an offense , I haven't seen one the first 3 games.

 

[lv20gt]

A QB getting the ball under center is 6 yards closer to the goal line / short-yardage-line than he is from the shotgun when he finally gets the ball. That's indisputable.

And it makes no difference if you are handing the ball off to the back who is 6 yards back anyways.

 

[MostDefinitely]

There are good reasons to favor lining up under center that everyone has mentioned. But so many of you are acting like that's end of discussion, that there's no possible reason to go gun. Lots of smart coaches run plays from the gun in these situations, so there must be something to it. But no, you have it all figured out, no shadow of a doubt, our coaches are just stupid. That overconfident, self-assured attitude is the entire problem with this board right now.

 

[bobongo]

There are good reasons to favor lining up under center that everyone has mentioned. But so many of you are acting like that's end of discussion, that there's no possible reason to go gun. Lots of smart coaches run plays from the gun in these situations, so there must be something to it. But no, you have it all figured out, no shadow of a doubt, our coaches are just stupid. That overconfident, self-assured attitude is the entire problem with this board right now.

Either way works if you have an OL that can block effectively. And neither of them works when you don't.

 

[g0lftime]

The RB hits the hole from a running start shortly after the snap when QB under center. With deep snap ball has to arrive at QB or wildcat and start from standing 3 to 4 yards deep. It can work with great OL blocking and can read gaps but in short yardage I would think under center is more likely for success.

 

[FlatsLander]

In the video Key mentions when the Quarterback "drops back" when comparing under center to shotgun snaps. I think he must be comparing the positioning of the quarterback with the default position being 5 yards behind the center after the play starts and he's looking to pass. He also says the RB gets the ball 4.5 yards behind the line either way, so I'm thinking that they aren't even considering a Quarterback ever being right behind the center for a handoff. That said, it seems to me like going under center and putting the handoff where our old BB mesh point was would put the ball into the RB's hands much closer to the line.

 

[takethepoints]

Uhhhh so Brent Key said in the interview last week that a snap to a QB in shotgun is faster than a direct snap alluding to the Johnson style formation. My initial gut reaction was WTF?

This is Tech. Anyone care to measure and run the numbers?

I think the question isn't whether the RB gets the ball in his hands quicker. It is whether the RB gets the ball at the LOS quicker.

There's no question that if all the QB has to do after a direct snap is hand the ball to the RB that the transfer from QB to RB is faster. Problem = the RB is still 3 yards from the LOS when that happens. In an under center snap, the RB is moving to the LOS at the snap and the QB then hands off or tosses as the RB moves forward. Result = the RB is at the LOS when he gets the ball. And, of course, that means fewer chances to lose yards on running plays. If the RB is good - think Laskey or Mason - he will almost never lose yards at the handoff. But … you pay your money and you take your choice. In a direct snap, the QB has more time for reads and, ideally, could make option calls more easily. Also, of course, there is all that pesky passing business. No denying that a direct snap makes that easier.

Bottom line (for me): run the ball from the 5 on in and take the snap under center. We'll see what the coaches decide come Saturday.

 

[ibeattetris]

I think the question isn't whether the RB gets the ball in his hands quicker. It is whether the RB gets the ball at the LOS quicker.

There's no question that if all the QB has to do after a direct snap is hand the ball to the RB that the transfer from QB to RB is faster. Problem = the RB is still 3 yards from the LOS when that happens. In an under center snap, the RB is moving to the LOS at the snap and the QB then hands off or tosses as the RB moves forward. Result = the RB is at the LOS when he gets the ball. And, of course, that means fewer chances to lose yards on running plays. If the RB is good - think Laskey or Mason - he will almost never lose yards at the handoff. But … you pay your money and you take your choice. In a direct snap, the QB has more time for reads and, ideally, could make option calls more easily. Also, of course, there is all that pesky passing business. No denying that a direct snap makes that easier.

Bottom line (for me): run the ball from the 5 on in and take the snap under center. We'll see what the coaches decide come Saturday.

This is all why I was disappointed with the answer. There is so much to a goal line run then how long it takes to get into the RB hands.

It also depends on what type of run play we are talking about. Outside zone takes a while, but how often are teams running outside zone from goal line.

I'd love for us to work in this with Tobias (and then have jump pass option as well)

As I've said multiple times, I think being able to do both would be good. I don't understand why Key was so dismissive about it.

 

[g0lftime]

These are the kinds of discussions that I enjoy on this board. Very enlightening and informative and worthy of discussion.

 

[Lee]

I don't think we should *never* go gun when we have one yard to go. I think there are a lot of benefits to shotgun (even with short yards to go). I would just like for us to have a package under center for these scenarios as well. I really think removing the threat of QB sneak is pretty big.

You don’t need a specific package to do a qb sneak. Just give the qb the freedom to make that call. We have actually done this with success this season. I don’t know if it was called or if Tobias just did it and I can’t even remember which game it was. It worked but we called a timeout right before the snap so it didn’t count.

We have run a few plays under center. Our biggest issue on short yardage is our banged up oline. If we had more up front, I don’t think we would have as many issues with short yardage and our offense as a whole would look better.

This is not a defense if Pnode. His playcalling as use (or lack there of) of Oliver is driving me crazy. I understand we want to show the world we are no longer an under center TO team, but it’s obvious the offense moves better with TO in the game. I do think Graham when healthy should get more of a look, but ride Oliver while it’s working.

 

[iceeater1969]

Ok, what i like about under center is its more of a sure thing that qb can look down field.

Our snaps are on line and often low.
.

 

[g0lftime]

I was watching highlights of the UVA game from last year. I was in London that game. Our OL was blowing them off the line by the end of that game. Fun to watch. I do miss that.

 

[99in99]

And it makes no difference if you are handing the ball off to the back who is 6 yards back anyways.

sure it does. That literal 0.1 second difference is the difference between a DL getting a hand on a pad and a DL's hand not quite being on the pad as your RB runs by. That 0.1 second difference is the difference between a ball being in a WR's chest or 3 feet behind him. That 0.1 second difference is the difference between a QB in the shotgun getting the pass off just before getting hit...or the same QB getting sacked since he's under center.

A split-second difference is enormous in football.

 

[jacket_fan]

I agree with ice on this one. With our problematic center snap to the QB in the shotgun right now, I seems pretty obvious short yardage plays would be less risky with an under center snap. I hope/expect the center snap in the shotgun will improve over time, but right now, an off line snap would kill timing now matter what play is called. And timing in football is critical.