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dressedcheeseside

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Q: So why did CPJ play Vad so much?

A: Because he was the best CPJ thought we had. As you know Boomer, I've been continually making the point that we need to play two QBs regularly to develop the second one. I made the case based on probable injury. I didn't expect Vad to bolt.

Anytime your starting QB leaves as a rSo, it is bad. Now it's worse since JT wasn't developed as much. Or Byerly.
I doubt you're gonna see much, if any, drop off from the qb position, Nuke. Even though JT has little game experience, he knows the offense and more importantly, has a feel for it. He didn't play more because coach thought Vad was on the cusp of "getting it." Unfortunately, he was just as close to packing in at the same time and that's what he decided to do.
 

Oldgoldandwhite

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The only way you can judge coaching is when playing similar talent. If the DL is whipping your OL and the defense has NFL prospects versus no prospects on offense, the best coaching in the world will not help.
 

GTNavyNuke

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Nuke, I am trying to understand your point. When you remove the FCS games from the offense's record to obtain the adjusted ranking, are you doing the same for all the other teams? or are they keeping their results against their FCS competition? I only ask because that would skew the argument some. In any case. We need to be more consistent on offense, especially against good teams.

Hey Boomer. The reason I converted an FCS game to an average BCS game is that very few BCS teams play two FCS teams a year. The only reason we did it last year was a result of the scheduling snafoo with the ACC. Thus we had two scrimmages to pad the stats last year rather than the typical one. And Elon and A A&M really did stink as I saw both in person. Looking at the game stats for those two games showed they were clear outliers and really improved our overall rating. I have no problem with including one patsie a year since most teams have one, we had two.

We were mediocre last year as evidenced by our 40th end of year power ranking. The D did as well as the O last year overall. The D (and probably ST) got better while the O got worse relative to other teams. We didn't have an exceptional offense or defense. Even though there were 80 teams worse than us, I'm still pretty disgusted with the results and don't like the argument that we have an exceptional offense.
 

GTNavyNuke

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I doubt you're gonna see much, if any, drop off from the qb position, Nuke. Even though JT has little game experience, he knows the offense and more importantly, has a feel for it. He didn't play more because coach thought Vad was on the cusp of "getting it." Unfortunately, he was just as close to packing in at the same time and that's what he decided to do.

I think you are right that we won't see much drop off and may even see an improvement. What happened to Vad is still puzzling to me. Not just his feel for the option, but his passing accuracy. The first play of the bowl game where he threw the ball over Waller's head is a good example. Simple high percentage dump pass to the sideline with no pressure.

Hindsight is 20/20. But I really hope we see a lot of two QBs this year so we develop two in tandem.
 

awbuzz

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I think you are right that we won't see much drop off and may even see an improvement. What happened to Vad is still puzzling to me. Not just his feel for the option, but his passing accuracy. The first play of the bowl game where he threw the ball over Waller's head is a good example. Simple high percentage dump pass to the sideline with no pressure.

Hindsight is 20/20. But I really hope we see a lot of two QBs this year so we develop two in tandem.


He almost put it pass into the stands.
 

augustabuzz

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Hey Boomer. The reason I converted an FCS game to an average BCS game is that very few BCS teams play two FCS teams a year. The only reason we did it last year was a result of the scheduling snafoo with the ACC. Thus we had two scrimmages to pad the stats last year rather than the typical one. And Elon and A A&M really did stink as I saw both in person. Looking at the game stats for those two games showed they were clear outliers and really improved our overall rating. I have no problem with including one patsie a year since most teams have one, we had two.

We were mediocre last year as evidenced by our 40th end of year power ranking. The D did as well as the O last year overall. The D (and probably ST) got better while the O got worse relative to other teams. We didn't have an exceptional offense or defense. Even though there were 80 teams worse than us, I'm still pretty disgusted with the results and don't like the argument that we have an exceptional offense.

Nuke, if you wish to compare apples to apples, then this may help.

http://www.theacc.com/#!/stats?sport=m-footblhttp://www.theacc.com/#!/stats?sport=m-footbl
 

Boomergump

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Went back and watched the latter half of the Syracuse game (full thing on youtube) and watched JT. Gotta say that the option is almost instinctual for this guy. There was a play where he was running to the outside, had a defender around his ankles, noticed his pitch man was still there, and made a great pitch that resulted in a nice chunk of yards and 1st down.
OK, but you have to remember that SYR had probably the worst plan against us on defense than any team since FSU in 2008. When evaluating JT it is better to view more games than that one.
 

Boomergump

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Q: So why did CPJ play Vad so much?

A: Because he was the best CPJ thought we had. As you know Boomer, I've been continually making the point that we need to play two QBs regularly to develop the second one. I made the case based on probable injury. I didn't expect Vad to bolt.

Anytime your starting QB leaves as a rSo, it is bad. Now it's worse since JT wasn't developed as much. Or Byerly.
The biggest reason Vad played so much IMHO was not because he was viewed as better, but perhaps, a little more predictable or reliable. JT did some things better than Vad, but he was always living on the edge of disaster. Had he learned to not play every down like it was the last play of the game, he probably would have beaten Vad out.
 

Whiskey_Clear

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Nuke, I see your reasoning with wanting a 2 headed QB. I just feel it creates more problems than it solves. Unless the competition is truly 50/50 I believe the better player has to get the majority of snaps.
 

GTRX7

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The biggest reason Vad played so much IMHO was not because he was viewed as better, but perhaps, a little more predictable or reliable. JT did some things better than Vad, but he was always living on the edge of disaster. Had he learned to not play every down like it was the last play of the game, he probably would have beaten Vad out.

I hope that is true and have reason to believe that was the case. Next year, I think we will need to live with a lot of errors from Thomas (especially early) as he tries to force things to happen. However, by the same token, I think we are also going to see a lot of big plays as a result. My hope is that he can continually get better at figuring out when to press and when not to. Better that situation though in my opinion than seeing play after play get strung out from indicision.
 

GTNavyNuke

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Nuke, I see your reasoning with wanting a 2 headed QB. I just feel it creates more problems than it solves. Unless the competition is truly 50/50 I believe the better player has to get the majority of snaps.

I agree, that the better QB should get the majority of the snaps. Like 60/40 or 65/35, not 90/10 with the 10 being in mop up or hopeless situations.

There is no perfect solution, only the least worst which provides for the best long range outcome. In 2012, it would have been better to play Vad more since TW was leaving. In 2013, it would have been better to play JT more since Vad left. I have no idea about 2014 and 2015 except that they won't go according to script.
 

Dustman

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In 2013 defenses tried to crash the gaps and force quick instinctive decisions out of Vad if he wanted to run the option. They got to watch film, just like we did, and they could see Vad tentative and hesitant. So, we didn't run as much option as we normally do and had to resort to a plethora of called dives and rocket tosses. If we did option it was usually the double option variety off a fake TO look. We had to pound out yards last season with physical play up front and also RG making something out of nothing. There wasn't really any fooling the defense. It really wasn't hard to find the football. It will be interesting to see how D's scheme against us next season and how smoothly we run TO..
Interesting that we had our most productive season at B-Back with called dives, especially considering the trash talk about our O Line play this year.
 

Fatmike91

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The correct read would have been to pitch it immediately. However, I don't know if that would have gained as many yards.
One of those times gambling pays off.

Stylee - I think the correct read would be to give to the B back. The unblocked end ignored the B back and charged the QB.

Once he kept (mis-read), I would speculate that CPJ would not be happy with that pitch. Once the QB is in the defenders hands, the play is over. Protect the dang ball.

In spite of the good result, that play is an example of forcing something that isn't there (wrong read + a forced pitch on the same play)...


/
 
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collegeballfan

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Thanks Buzz. Why I have not looked there previously is a mystery.

Looking at conference games only GT was 5th in scoring at 31.1 pts per game and was 5th in defense giving up 23.2 pts per game.
Only FSU, Clemson and GT were in the top 5 in both categories.

Interesting note on attendance: GT was 8th at 49K per game average behind Clemson at an average of 80K per game.
 
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