Screen passes - Why can't GT throw them?

[year_of_the_swarm]

Watch any other college football team and you will see a heavy dose of WR screens and RB screen passes... A lot of these teams who put up big pass numbers get a huge chunk of that on quick screens. Some teams like Oklahoma probably throw screens 10-20 times per game.. It's just getting players out in space.

Why can't GT throw a screen pass? Are you telling me they can't throw in a wrinkle for a simple screen pass? Play some 3 WR sets?

I was watching Air Force, and they seem to have a much more versatile triple option system than G-Tech does. They run wishbone, run plays out of the shotgun, single back sets, etc. It looks more efficient, modern, and versatile than the CPJ/Monken brand of option.

Seems logical to me that adding a few quick hitter passes would open up the offense and the rest of the run game.

Look at the play here at 15 seconds.... are you telling me CPJ can't do that? Under center or whatever.

 

[GT_05]

Watch any other college football team and you will see a heavy dose of WR screens and RB screen passes... A lot of these teams who put up big pass numbers get a huge chunk of that on quick screens. Some teams like Oklahoma probably throw screens 10-20 times per game.. It's just getting players out in space.

Why can't GT throw a screen pass? Are you telling me they can't throw in a wrinkle for a simple screen pass? Play some 3 WR sets?

I was watching Air Force, and they seem to have a much more versatile triple option system than G-Tech does. They run wishbone, run plays out of the shotgun, single back sets, etc. It looks more efficient, modern, and versatile than the CPJ/Monken brand of option.

Seems logical to me that adding a few quick hitter passes would open up the offense and the rest of the run game.

Look at the play here at 15 seconds.... are you telling me CPJ can't do that? Under center or whatever.

I think we did throw a successful screen against UGAg in the fourth quarter, after all hope was lost.

Anyway, I think to throw a successful WR screen you need a QB with a strong arm and one that has a quick delivery. We don’t have that with TM. I think he would throw a lot of pick sixes.

I don’t know why we don’t throw RB screens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I think, generally speaking, when we have tried anything similar to a screen, it just took too long to set up, perhaps because the QB is operating under center. It DOES seem, however, that executed properly and quickly, they should work.

 

[year_of_the_swarm]

CPJ is really costing himself easy yards and keeping the defense more honest if you can't execute a damn screen pass... GTECH should be particularly suited for it because it requires good blocking from WR's.

Now, your point about requiring a strong arm and a quicker release... that is fair. TQM may not even be able to throw it.

But my goodness... if Air Force can add a few quick passes, surely CPJ can figure it out. It's a pretty important part of the modern game, and there is no reason I can think of that GTECH can't implement it. Every team in college football throws screen passes, including other option teams. Tech just won't do it.

 

[gtg936g]

We have done it with little success. I think this is due to two things,

1. The linemen have to move quickly out of their stance and wide splits. This is harder for us because of the way we align.

2. You defend the screen like you do the option, so if you are thinking option, and it is a screen your defenders are in decent position to contain and make a play.

The screen works when the defense is thinking pass and over pursues the qb with blitzers. When Gt passes on third and long most teams play coverage with maybe a gap blitz disrupting the line movement and preventing them from setting up the blocking scheme.

 

[year_of_the_swarm]

We have done it with little success. I think this is due to two things,

1. The linemen have to move quickly out of their stance and wide splits. This is harder for us because of the way we align.

2. You defend the screen like you do the option, so if you are thinking option, and it is a screen your defenders are in decent position to contain and make a play.

The screen works when the defense is thinking pass and over pursues the qb with blitzers. When Gt passes on third and long most teams play coverage with maybe a gap blitz disrupting the line movement and preventing them from setting up the blocking scheme.

Interesting... what about BB and AB screens? Let the line through and hit a screen.

 

[gtg391z]

We are or about the most incompetent team throwing the ball as anyone in D1 football. It is embarrassing. Which, by the way, helps us be one of the most incompetent defending the pass as well.

 

[year_of_the_swarm]

We are or about the most incompetent team throwing the ball as anyone in D1 football. It is embarrassing. Which, by the way, helps us be one of the most incompetent defending the pass as well.

If you can't implement a screen pass or some kind of easy completion to get a player in space, you have some serious problems or some serious stubbornness from the coaching staff.

Again, its random, but watch the video I linked in the original post. If you can't do that like every other team in college football (including option teams), you have a problem.

 

[gtg936g]

Interesting... what about BB and AB screens? Let the line through and hit a screen.

I guess it would depend on what the AB is selling. Most of the time the AB is blocking a LB if he is not the pitch person. So, if he doesn’t sell the block the LB would think pass. Most of our pass plays work off of play action where the AB sells the block and turns up the seam. Same with the BB.

In the Tevin days we had success with the shuffle pass to the BB on a run fake. Not sure why we stopped running it.

The rocket toss/pitch is what we use as a short pass.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

The Rocket Toss isn't the same thing as a screen pass nor does it accomplish the same thing (making the D respect the pass). When we run the Rocket Toss, the D immediately reacts and pursues outside - it never runs at the QB - and tries to close the outside down. It's why the Rocket Toss doesn't work well against elite teams on our schedule - they've got the speed with LBs and Safeties to shut that play down before our backs can get outside.

Conversely, A screen pass run properly has half the D collapsing on the QB so that when the RB catches the pass, he's got daylight and blockers in front of them since half the D is in the offensive backfield, wondering where the ball went.

They are 2 entirely different types of plays. Why CPJ won't run the Screen more often is only answerable by him.

 

[g0lftime]

CPJ is really costing himself easy yards and keeping the defense more honest if you can't execute a damn screen pass... GTECH should be particularly suited for it because it requires good blocking from WR's.

Now, your point about requiring a strong arm and a quicker release... that is fair. TQM may not even be able to throw it.

But my goodness... if Air Force can add a few quick passes, surely CPJ can figure it out. It's a pretty important part of the modern game, and there is no reason I can think of that GTECH can't implement it. Every team in college football throws screen passes, including other option teams. Tech just won't do it.

We don't have the quick passes that can get out in a hurry before the rush. We throw long that take time to develope and have trouble holding blocks. Our QB is short and tall linemen make it tough to throw slants over the middle. We have not been very effective with screens at all.

 

[gtg936g]

The Rocket Toss isn't the same thing as a screen pass nor does it accomplish the same thing (making the D respect the pass). When we run the Rocket Toss, the D immediately reacts and pursues outside - it never runs at the QB - and tries to close the outside down. It's why the Rocket Toss doesn't work well against elite teams on our schedule - they've got the speed with LBs and Safeties to shut that play down before our backs can get outside.

Conversely, A screen pass run properly has half the D collapsing on the QB so that when the RB catches the pass, he's got daylight and blockers in front of them since half the D is in the offensive backfield, wondering where the ball went.

They are 2 entirely different types of plays. Why CPJ won't run the Screen more often is only answerable by him.

I am not saying the rocket toss is a screen, just that we use it in lieu of a short pass. If you want to put the ball on the edge quickly (in any offense) it is likely due to the defense blitzing the a gap. You trap them inside with a quick hit pass (or rocket toss), which is when we run it. Teams like Washington St use the quick pass to a RB the same way we use the rocket toss, or the same way pro style teams use a checkdown reciever. We don’t use a lot of slants because of the way teams line up against us. If we spread out 5 wide, we could, but the way we align causes the safety and LBs to cheat up, so the WR would be slanting into traffic and that is a bad idea.

Satterfield at App St. runs a similar offense to ours (from the gun), but on obvious passing downs they change their OL stance and gaps. This is a change we could implement, but it greatly complicates what we have to teach and the players have to execute. This is why you don’t see Washington St use our stance and wide splits on 4th and short. They stick with what they do, what they can teach, and most importantly what the players can execute.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

I could be wrong, but I feel like the way people are playing us with just about everyone within 7-10yards of the LOS makes them a lot harder. I do think a jail break screen could be effective. Getting the defenders closer to the QB and cleaning up the passing lane a bit.

 

[Sparkybob]

We ran a good one against Duke on a 3rd down. I just think Marshall is too small to throw it over the d-line man

 

[stech81]

id=Wj4PWc5N9So;t=15[/MEDIA]

First I don't think CPJ has the arm to make that throw.

As for the team seeing how we pass block I would hate to see how fast the DL would get to the QB on a screen pass. A few years back it wasn't a screen pass but I remember the QB taking one step back the throwing to the WR but have not the last couple of years. May guess he done trust the QB we had to make that work.

 

[g0lftime]

We were very limited in what PJ would risk with both QB's this year. He had a very short play book this year.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

I am not saying the rocket toss is a screen, just that we use it in lieu of a short pass. If you want to put the ball on the edge quickly (in any offense) it is likely due to the defense blitzing the a gap. You trap them inside with a quick hit pass (or rocket toss), which is when we run it. Teams like Washington St use the quick pass to a RB the same way we use the rocket toss, or the same way pro style teams use a checkdown reciever. We don’t use a lot of slants because of the way teams line up against us. If we spread out 5 wide, we could, but the way we align causes the safety and LBs to cheat up, so the WR would be slanting into traffic and that is a bad idea.

Satterfield at App St. runs a similar offense to ours (from the gun), but on obvious passing downs they change their OL stance and gaps. This is a change we could implement, but it greatly complicates what we have to teach and the players have to execute. This is why you don’t see Washington St use our stance and wide splits on 4th and short. They stick with what they do, what they can teach, and most importantly what the players can execute.

I agree with your bolded; it's just that the rocket toss flat-out doesn't accomplish the same thing that completed short passes do. The effect on the DL is different for both plays.

 

[GTonTop88]

CPJ says TQ throws the ball well in practice. Who doesn’t throw the ball well against our defense.

 

[g0lftime]

I agree with your bolded; it's just that the rocket toss flat-out doesn't accomplish the same thing that completed short passes do. The effect on the DL is different for both plays.

Rocket toss still takes longer to get to the edge. A pass gets out there quicker.

 

[stech81]

CPJ says TQ throws the ball well in practice. Who doesn’t throw the ball well against our defense.

This is funny sad but true.