Schematic Advantage, Ralph, Bill O'Brien, and for some reason Silicon Valley

[Techster]

Thanks for the response, and in no way are you pissing people off on either side. I think your history speaks for itself and we respect your opinion. But the point remains that yes, we make fun of UGA for having "grand expectations" but we are still in control of our own destiny. We can improve our program if we're smart about it. If we're not, we'll continue to see the same average result.

I have a long post about this saved somewhere...I may actually post it one day. The gist: GT expectations are a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[91Wreck]

I have a long post about this saved somewhere...I may actually post it one day. The gist: GT expectations are a self fulfilling prophecy.

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

― Henry Ford

 

[Techster]

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

― Henry Ford

lol...I posted that quote in regards to someone elses's post about GT's potential as well. Glad to know I'm not the only GT fan that thinks like that.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I applaud yalls optimism. I do. The thought of Tech becoming a dominant regional power is a fun thought.

But why do y’all get so up in arms when someone else expresses a different expectation, one based on 10, 20, 30, 40 years of recent history?

The only real substantial change thus far is in the coaching staff. The only thing they’ve really shown thus far is an apparent aptitude to improve Tech recruiting. To what degree is still an unknown.

Funding for support staff seems marginally though not drastically improved.

There are reasons to think things could become much better overall. But it honestly appears there is more room to doubt a huge improvement than to believe it is likely to happen.

If the skeptics are right their hopes won’t be overly inflated leading to bigger disappointment. If the optimists are right they are about to enjoy a very fun ride. If you were truly optimistic the skepticism wouldn’t bother you imo because you would have faith in your beliefs and not be bothered by the skeptics.

The fact that expressed skepticism or “wait and see approaches” draws such criticism from several seems a display of a lack of faith in the optimists. Have faith my friends and stop trying to silence others who have legitimate reasons to feel differently.

 

[Milwaukee]

I applaud yalls optimism. I do. The thought of Tech becoming a dominant regional power is a fun thought.

But why do y’all get so up in arms when someone else expresses a different expectation, one based on 10, 20, 30, 40 years of recent history?

The only real substantial change thus far is in the coaching staff. The only thing they’ve really shown thus far is an apparent aptitude to improve Tech recruiting. To what degree is still an unknown.

Funding for support staff seems marginally though not drastically improved.

There are reasons to think things could become much better overall. But it honestly appears there is more room to doubt a huge improvement than to believe it is likely to happen.

If the skeptics are right their hopes won’t be overly inflated leading to bigger disappointment. If the optimists are right they are about to enjoy a very fun ride. If you were truly optimistic the skepticism wouldn’t bother you imo because you would have faith in your beliefs and not be bothered by the skeptics.

The fact that expressed skepticism or “wait and see approaches” draws such criticism from several seems a display of a lack of faith in the optimists. Have faith my friends and stop trying to silence others who have legitimate reasons to feel differently.

This is at least well thought out. I've been here since '13 or '14, and there's never been a mob of people on the Swarm upset just because some posters have "different expectations" or "different opinions". Please don't confuse that and make it sound like we don't want diversity. The absolute FACT is, there are a few, I call them the Gilmore Girls, who are loud and proud with the rationale that Georgia Tech will never be better than they were under Paul. He was our best shot at playing competitive football in their opinion. You know this. That's where the friction comes in. And for those Gilmore Girls all they need to do is look at this post:

God I bet your boss hates you. "We've always been this way boss, I mean, when in the world has a company risen from the ashes to become a major player under our circumstances when our competition has an easier path?"

Boss: "Umm...only all the time with the right people that are smart and intuitive, ya know, those traits that most engineers have."

Or you may be your own boss, but you get the point. The point is smart people change the world and change their status for the better, they don't say "this is what we've always been" and consider themselves scientists for stating the obvious like it's some sort of badge of honor.

That's my rant for the day Not directed towards you @LibertyTurns just used your post as an example.

We can be better, I don't give a damn what the past 30 years have been. We can be better with the right staff and admin. Period.

People are optimistic and hype right now because, ya know, there's a buzz around the program for the 1st time in a damn decade. If those few are going to continue to piss in cheerios and try to pass it off as "well we're just being realistic" because let's face it, that's the only reason they're even posting nowadays, then they should find another forum. We're amp'd up for the new regime and we wanna be hype for God's sake, we deserve it. If the hype doesn't pan out and Stansbury makes a move in 4-7 years then the girls will be welcomed back with open arms.

But stop with this naïve "we just don't agree with your point of view so you're trying to silence us" nonsense. You know damn well that's not what's happening here. There's an entire forum here with hundreds of people and there are 5 trying to "temper expectations" and pass it off as "just being realistic". It's called passive aggressive trolling.

 

[91Wreck]

I applaud yalls optimism. I do. The thought of Tech becoming a dominant regional power is a fun thought.

But why do y’all get so up in arms when someone else expresses a different expectation, one based on 10, 20, 30, 40 years of recent history?

The only real substantial change thus far is in the coaching staff. The only thing they’ve really shown thus far is an apparent aptitude to improve Tech recruiting. To what degree is still an unknown.

Funding for support staff seems marginally though not drastically improved.

There are reasons to think things could become much better overall. But it honestly appears there is more room to doubt a huge improvement than to believe it is likely to happen.

If the skeptics are right their hopes won’t be overly inflated leading to bigger disappointment. If the optimists are right they are about to enjoy a very fun ride. If you were truly optimistic the skepticism wouldn’t bother you imo because you would have faith in your beliefs and not be bothered by the skeptics.

The fact that expressed skepticism or “wait and see approaches” draws such criticism from several seems a display of a lack of faith in the optimists. Have faith my friends and stop trying to silence others who have legitimate reasons to feel differently.

Whiskey - I agreed with with your post until the last few paragraphs. So let me re-write them in a way that will probably anger you but at the same time it will point out some real problems with your generalizations of the optimistic crowd. Here is my re-write:

"The fact that expressed skepticism in CPJ's coaching abilities over the last four years drew such criticism from several of his supporters seemed to display a lack of faith of those who were optimistic in his ability to turn the program around. His supporters should have had more faith in CPJ and stopped trying to silence those who had legitimate reasons to feel differently about him. If CPJ supporters would have been truly optimistic about the future they would have had faith in their beliefs and not been bothered by the skeptics."

Now as a present optimist and a former anti-CPJ guy, I am simply asking the skeptics to get on board with the new staff - whether you like them or not. I am asking that the cautious crowd (and those who just don't like the current staff) to be better fans than I was over the last four years. I am asking them to do something I was unable or unwilling to do - support the new staff and temper their criticisms, even if they don't like the new staff or care for their methods.

 

[Milwaukee]

Whiskey - I agreed with with your post until the last few paragraphs. So let me re-write them in a way that will probably anger you but at the same time it will point out some real problems with your generalizations of the optimistic crowd. Here is my re-write:

"The fact that expressed skepticism in CPJ's coaching abilities over the last four years drew such criticism from several of his supporters seemed to display a lack of faith of those who were optimistic in his ability to turn the program around. His supporters should have had more faith in CPJ and stopped trying to silence those who had legitimate reasons to feel differently about him. If CPJ supporters would have been truly optimistic about the future they would have had faith in their beliefs and not been bothered by the skeptics."

Now as a present optimist and a former anti-CPJ guy, I am simply asking the skeptics to get on board with the new staff - whether you like them or not. I am asking that the cautious crowd (and those who just don't like the current staff) to be better fans than I was over the last four years. I am asking them to do something I was unable or unwilling to do - support the new staff and temper their criticisms, even if they don't like the new staff or care for their methods.

This is kind of a strange post and probably where a lot of confusion sets in. You were an anti-PJ guy admittedly. I loved the man and one day hope he makes his way back into our Athletic Department because I think he's a high football IQ guy that can think outside the box. I've just never seen such a small contingency be so adamant about holding on to a man that literally walked out on them. I think he did it for the best reasons, but the animosity as if the Collins/Key crowd forced him out is a friggin joke.

 

[91Wreck]

This is kind of a strange post and probably where a lot of confusion sets in. You were an anti-PJ guy admittedly. I loved the man and one day hope he makes his way back into our Athletic Department because I think he's a high football IQ guy that can think outside the box. I've just never seen such a small contingency be so adamant about holding on to a man that literally walked out on them. I think he did it for the best reasons, but the animosity as if the Collins/Key crowd forced him out is a friggin joke.

I did a poor job in my post. What I really wanted to do is as follows:

1. Refute the notion that optimists really dont have faith in the new staff. We do. We are arguing with the skeptics because we want everyone to get on board.

2. Show that those optimistic of the new staff consist of people that were pro and anti cpj. For a change this board is mostly united.

3. Confess that my criticism of cpj was at times bad for the program and to ask those that don't like the current staff or their methods to be a better fan than I was.

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[GoldZ]

Whiskey - I agreed with with your post until the last few paragraphs. So let me re-write them in a way that will probably anger you but at the same time it will point out some real problems with your generalizations of the optimistic crowd. Here is my re-write:

"The fact that expressed skepticism in CPJ's coaching abilities over the last four years drew such criticism from several of his supporters seemed to display a lack of faith of those who were optimistic in his ability to turn the program around. His supporters should have had more faith in CPJ and stopped trying to silence those who had legitimate reasons to feel differently about him. If CPJ supporters would have been truly optimistic about the future they would have had faith in their beliefs and not been bothered by the skeptics."

Now as a present optimist and a former anti-CPJ guy, I am simply asking the skeptics to get on board with the new staff - whether you like them or not. I am asking that the cautious crowd (and those who just don't like the current staff) to be better fans than I was over the last four years. I am asking them to do something I was unable or unwilling to do - support the new staff and temper their criticisms, even if they don't like the new staff or care for their methods.

91Wreck, what do you see that makes you believe posters don't "support" or are "critical" of the new staff ? Btw, not buying into hype doesn't qualify for either. Perhaps part of the prob is how Websters defines "hype"---at least for some here. Maybe enthusiasm would be better, huh? Actually, I've never heard the word hype come from CGC. It may have, but it's more likely a msg brd creation.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

People are optimistic and hype right now because, ya know, there's a buzz around the program for the 1st time in a damn decade.

Minor quibble here. I have been "optimistic and hype" every single spring for my entire life. It's my nature as a fan.

I disagree with the "lack of buzz" for a decade. How can you claim there was no "buzz" around the program in 2008, 2009, and going into 2010? How can you claim there was no "buzz" around the program in 2014, going into 2015, and the back half of 2016? Or going into 2017 at the CFA kickoff?

Now, it may not have been the "buzz" you wanted (if you were anti-CPJ), and often that buzz wasn't sustained, but if wins over UGAg, 9, 11, 11, and 9 win seasons and ACC title appearances don't equate to "buzz", then I need to readjust my perspective.

I've said before that I love the new staff. I love the hype, and energy, and positivity. So far, recruiting has been similar, if more hyped up and visible. At the end of the day, for me, it's about results on the field and running a clean program. I don't yet equate the "buzz" and "hype" with success. It may end up that way, and I hope it does. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and we may end up having two coaches back to back who successfully skinned cats in two very different ways.

 

[91Wreck]

91Wreck, what do you see that makes you believe posters don't "support" or are "critical" of the new staff ? Btw, not buying into hype doesn't qualify for either. Perhaps part of the prob is how Websters defines "hype"---at least for some here. Maybe enthusiasm would be better, huh? Actually, I've never heard the word hype come from CGC. It may have, but it's more likely a msg brd creation.

I really dont see that many people that are overly critical of the new staff. There are a few to be sure, but most have legitimate concerns.

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[redmule]

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

― Henry Ford

I think a more appropriate Ford guote is, "If you have two men working for you that always agree, then you don't need one of them. If they always disagree you don't need either of them." That sums up the dialogue in this thread.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

But none of what you wrote refutes the statement made. Our recruiting IS better so far and our profile with HS players IS higher.

For what it’s worth, I think we will recruit better. With no schematic advantage anymore, we have to just to pull even with previous success. If we want to improve we have to be even better than that.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Whiskey - I agreed with with your post until the last few paragraphs. So let me re-write them in a way that will probably anger you but at the same time it will point out some real problems with your generalizations of the optimistic crowd. Here is my re-write:

"The fact that expressed skepticism in CPJ's coaching abilities over the last four years drew such criticism from several of his supporters seemed to display a lack of faith of those who were optimistic in his ability to turn the program around. His supporters should have had more faith in CPJ and stopped trying to silence those who had legitimate reasons to feel differently about him. If CPJ supporters would have been truly optimistic about the future they would have had faith in their beliefs and not been bothered by the skeptics."

Now as a present optimist and a former anti-CPJ guy, I am simply asking the skeptics to get on board with the new staff - whether you like them or not. I am asking that the cautious crowd (and those who just don't like the current staff) to be better fans than I was over the last four years. I am asking them to do something I was unable or unwilling to do - support the new staff and temper their criticisms, even if they don't like the new staff or care for their methods.

I don’t recall the prior CPJ discussions the same as you. Most of the debates regarding CPJ were from statements alleging the offense was crap which then brought about arguments and facts showing the O to in fact be elite some years. Those were arguments about facts not faith.

Most of the other debates regarded certain position coaches and opinions of how bad they were. With opinions stated as facts and then being challenged as such.

You are clamoring for everyone to share your faith. Your not arguing facts or even opinions. You and Milwaukee and others are demanding to have your faith shared and if not to basically stfu. That’s silly.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

This is kind of a strange post and probably where a lot of confusion sets in. You were an anti-PJ guy admittedly. I loved the man and one day hope he makes his way back into our Athletic Department because I think he's a high football IQ guy that can think outside the box. I've just never seen such a small contingency be so adamant about holding on to a man that literally walked out on them. I think he did it for the best reasons, but the animosity as if the Collins/Key crowd forced him out is a friggin joke.

Not believing CGC is likely to win at an incredible new level is not hating on CGC. Most of the skepticism is based on institutional issues and history rather than CGC himself.

My issue with Key has absolutely nothing to do with the prior staff.

 

[ncjacket79]

For what it’s worth, I think we will recruit better. With no schematic advantage anymore, we have to just to pull even with previous success. If we want to improve we have to be even better than that.

I don’t get the part about no schematic advantage. Do you think every team in the NCAA runs the same stuff? Do you think Clemson’s offense looks the same as Syracuse or Baylor or Duke? What we ran before was different not necessarily better. It may, and I stress the may, have hampered us on defense which to me balanced out any possible benefit it had.

FWIW I watched the 2007 GT-ND game the other night. I had forgotten how good our talent was in those years. Even with Chan’s ridiculous offense we had a very good team and probably should have won at least 10 if we weren’t hampered by our coaching staff on offense. I’d love to see that level of talent again with a competent staff.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I don’t get the part about no schematic advantage. Do you think every team in the NCAA runs the same stuff? Do you think Clemson’s offense looks the same as Syracuse or Baylor or Duke? What we ran before was different not necessarily better. It may, and I stress the may, have hampered us on defense which to me balanced out any possible benefit it had.

FWIW I watched the 2007 GT-ND game the other night. I had forgotten how good our talent was in those years. Even with Chan’s ridiculous offense we had a very good team and probably should have won at least 10 if we weren’t hampered by our coaching staff on offense. I’d love to see that level of talent again with a competent staff.

What scheme is used matters not at all. How well a scheme is run is what floats the boat. Talent on hand helps trim the sails.

Current staff needs two years to improve talent level (particularly OL and DL) and get their systems in where players are proficient with them. Good things are likely to follow.

I’m very optimistic with what CGC will build on D. I have little reason to think CDP can’t be successful.

 

[91Wreck]

I don’t recall the prior CPJ discussions the same as you. Most of the debates regarding CPJ were from statements alleging the offense was crap which then brought about arguments and facts showing the O to in fact be elite some years. Those were arguments about facts not faith.

Most of the other debates regarded certain position coaches and opinions of how bad they were. With opinions stated as facts and then being challenged as such.

You are clamoring for everyone to share your faith. Your not arguing facts or even opinions. You and Milwaukee and others are demanding to have your faith shared and if not to basically stfu. That’s silly.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on the CPJ arguments that raged on the last 4 years. My take is there were a handful of people who were overly nasty with their ill conceived criticism. But there were often legitimate concerns about the direction of the program that were met with animus and personal attacks, and not facts. Which side was MORE wrong is what we are really arguing.

Asking people to temper their criticism is not the same as asking them to stfu - but I do understand your point. A few of my posts have more than hinted that's what I want. I will seriously try to do better.







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[GoldZ]

I don’t get the part about no schematic advantage. Do you think every team in the NCAA runs the same stuff? Do you think Clemson’s offense looks the same as Syracuse or Baylor or Duke? What we ran before was different not necessarily better. It may, and I stress the may, have hampered us on defense which to me balanced out any possible benefit it had.

FWIW I watched the 2007 GT-ND game the other night. I had forgotten how good our talent was in those years. Even with Chan’s ridiculous offense we had a very good team and probably should have won at least 10 if we weren’t hampered by our coaching staff on offense. I’d love to see that level of talent again with a competent staff.

Did other teams spend precious extra prep time for Clemson, Baylor, Duke, and Syracuse? Did any other team take a knife into a gun fight in Athens and come out a winner 3 times (in spite of extra prep)? Geesh!

 

[alentrekin]

This has been repeated elsewhere, but the early signees benefit the recruiting staff (more time devoted to closing high value guys), make the class more attractive (adds committed guys that will sell as a group) and even if you disagree with the "objectivity" of the rankings, we have effectively gamed them early in the signing period and reaped some positive PR from it. It's a common startup strategy to focus on growth at the expense of revenue/LTV early not just to generate "hype" but to create network effects and use the existing base as a proof of value to higher value targets. CGC knows how this system works, and he is timing these silents in order to drive a "fake" metric that will keep us in the conversation. Also, if these guys do get bumps, then we will keep our trendline moving up and to the right, which matters if we are selling "momentum" from the "new world order." This is basic silicon valley marketing stuff, but it's being executed well so far.