Saturday Scrimmage updates

thebull35

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
184
Location
Stone Mountain
I don't have an issue with TB. But people just need to pump the brakes. Last season, his playing time consisted of 4th quarters against FCS opponents, one drive in a game when we were up 56-0 against Syracuse (he didn't exactly come in and light it up, the drive ended in a punt) and the last minute against Miami's walk-ons. Sure JT did terrible in the two plays that he came in against Miami but what I saw in JT against Syracuse, BYU and Clemson trumps the few plays TB played against 3rd stringers and walk-ons. Maybe he outplayed JT yesterday but this happens every year. Our 2nd string QB lights it up against the 2nd string defense and people start calling for that guy. I wouldn't mind seeing TB being a situational guy. Maybe a goal line QB, getting tough yards, etc.

I'm afraid that if TB starts, this will be the end of PJ. We need a JT talent at QB. We need a guy who can out run the defense. We need a home run threat. TB is not that guy. Maybe he will end up being the best QB but if he is, I'm afraid we're in for another 6-7 win season.
I'll just add to that that there is a reason that JT has been consistently running with the 1s and against the 1s. Nothing against TB but i was a college catcher and there were times when the #2 guy had better scrimmages than i did but i was more consistent throughout fall practice and was the starting catcher throughout my career. If it comes to where TB is more consistent where the coaching staff will let him run with and against the 1s then I'll be leading the parade of support. We all remember how much we wanted that guy from last year to play in front of Tevin. And in retrospect we all saw why the coaching staff was behind Tevin.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,658
I think people overate JT's explosiveness. I'm not saying that because he's not explosive, I'm saying that because against other team's 1st team D, their speed on defense is going to neutralize/contain his speed. We saw that against Miami and BYU. People forget, but there are a lot of defenders just as fast as him.

Remember, JT's two biggest explosion plays were against Elon when the OLB had terrible containment:


and Syracuse who's defense against us was as inept as I've seen anyone play us on this level and their coach admitted it.


There's no doubting JT's upside compared to Byerly, but people have to realize that those big chunk plays aren't going to happen on every play. JT will get hit more than he'll get those big plays. As you saw in those clips, the better the defensive talent, the harder it was for JT to run from the defense and out of containment. The hope is that JT stays healthy enough to make those explosion plays. If not, that speed is not going to do us any good.
 

yellowRambler

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
123
I think people overate JT's explosiveness. I'm not saying that because he's not explosive, I'm saying that because against other team's 1st team D, their speed on defense is going to neutralize/contain his speed. We saw that against Miami and BYU. People forget, but there are a lot of defenders just as fast as him.

Remember, JT's two biggest explosion plays were against Elon when the OLB had terrible containment:


and Syracuse who's defense against us was as inept as I've seen anyone play us on this level and their coach admitted it.


There's no doubting JT's upside compared to Byerly, but people have to realize that those big chunk plays aren't going to happen on every play. JT will get hit more than he'll get those big plays. As you saw in those clips, the better the defensive talent, the harder it was for JT to run from the defense and out of containment. The hope is that JT stays healthy enough to make those explosion plays. If not, that speed is not going to do us any good.

there were plenty of plays where Vad had a hole and could only go 10-15 yards. JT could take those 50 yards. Vad was not very fast.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,658
there were plenty of plays where Vad had a hole and could only go 10-15 yards. JT could take those 50 yards. Vad was not very fast.

Yeah, 2013 was weird in terms of Vad's production for explosive plays, but there's no doubting he has the abilities:


If you read the spring write-up for JMU, Vad displayed those same abilities. Heading into the 2013 season last Spring, Vad definitely had those explosion plays during scrimmages against our first team D. Not sure what happened during the season...a combination of a lot of things I guess.
 

LongforDodd

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,907
ShamireDevine was just literally physically exhausted. He repped about three series with the second string. He kept laying on the ground longer and longer after each plaly until finally he just could not get up without assistance from the training staff. He is just not in football shape and will probably have to lose another 30 lbs. or so to be able to withstand the physical exertion required for the game. I am not faulting the young man. I appreciate that he is out there trying and giving it what he has to give. I'm concerned for his physical well being and think he is risking his health by trying to play at his size. He might be able to work in goal line situations on a limited basis but I would not expect him to be a factor this upcoming season. He really needs an extended program of proper nutrition, exercise and stamina development before he tries to play the game of football.

That is my unprofessional opinion but I hope for his sake he does what is necessary to get in condition to play prior to continuing to attempt to play.

Go Jackets!

I was thinking along the same lines. GT needs to help this guy learn how to get his weight under control whether by nutrition or conditioning or both. Shamire might not see his 50th birthday if he and GT don't work together at this point in his life.
 

Eric

Retired Co-Founder
Staff member
Messages
12,734
say what you want but Vad wasn't fast on the field in 2013. Really no arguing that.

Also he was a 4.5 guy in the 40...which is plenty fast enough. But that speed never showed up on the field in 2013.
 

LongforDodd

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,907
I would be perfectly happy to see TB win the QB job, just so long as he wins it because he has raised the bar and proven himself and not simply because JT keeps screwing up and putting the ball on the ground. Here is the thing about Byerly, he has looked really good every time he has gotten in the game to run the team that I can remember. It is just that the sample size has been small and mostly in low leverage situations. The kid has done NOTHING that says he is unable. He just needs to be thrown into the fire continually to prove himself. The cream always rises. I can't wait to see it play out. Most of us have sat and wondered why NAVY continually produces QBs who "get it". Their offense just seems to work despite having an otherwise unimpressive roster. Well, the way I see it, TB has the chance to become that kind of QB, you know, the Ricky Dobbs, Kaipo Noa, Polanco type. It certainly wouldn't suck.

In my view: TB has the POTENTIAL to be a Ricky Dobbs type, JT has the POTENTIAL to be a Pat White type. Whether either reaches that potential is anybody's guess. IMHO if they both reach their potential, I would rather go with a Pat White type player. If JT doesn't reach that kind of level of play, then having a Ricky Dobbs at QB is certainly not a problem. If neither reaches their potential, then we will continue to have similar issues that we have seen in recent seasons.

Do you know what sort of offenses these guys ran in high school? I'd bet it was extremely close to what they ran at USNA and, add in their innate intelligence and the discipline they acquire at the Academy, and you have those guys that "got it".
 

Gojackets55

Banned
Messages
153
I don't think people expect JT to score on every play but with an explosive qb it opens up the dive. We haven't had a qb in the pj era near what jt can bring to the table. Let the kid play he will be the best thing we have seen in a long time
 

TampaGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,053
say what you want but Vad wasn't fast on the field in 2013. Really no arguing that.

Also he was a 4.5 guy in the 40...which is plenty fast enough. But that speed never showed up on the field in 2013.
I think the reason his speed never translated to the field is that he has a long stride. As long as he is not changing directions he was fast. I think it is more like track speed in that he is more fast than quick, where as JT seems to be both quick and fast. I think that is one of the reason VL had problems with the TO. Maybe it is me, but when he ran the TO it always seemed a little slow getting to the edge. The Navy QBs seem to be more quick than fast, but to me it seems the tempo of their TO seems to be faster than ours.
 

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
Featured Member
Messages
2,126
I would be perfectly happy to see TB win the QB job, just so long as he wins it because he has raised the bar and proven himself and not simply because JT keeps screwing up and putting the ball on the ground.
That's my thing too. I'm good with TB winning the starting spot. If he does, I hope it's because we're going to see him turn out like our last walk-on turned starter in our offense. Maybe he'll be the Robby Godhigh of QB's. I remember everyone lamenting how bad we must be if a 5'6" walkon could beat out everyone else and start for us. He sure shut everybody up didn't he ... and then made them stand and cheer.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,661
Do you know what sort of offenses these guys ran in high school? I'd bet it was extremely close to what they ran at USNA and, add in their innate intelligence and the discipline they acquire at the Academy, and you have those guys that "got it".
Navy's big secret = a lot of their recruits go to the prep school run by the Academy. And guess what offense they run there? Yep. Kaipo went there. Dobbs and Reynolds didn't, but they have Coach Irvins to help them out and I sure do with we did too. Nothing off on Cook, but Irvins is magic with spread QBs.
 
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