Romello Height is in the portal

[bke1984]

There’s a reason why the NFL doesn’t use this model. Parity is actually a good thing. Rich programs buying championships is not my bag.

This could create parity in the long run if they build rules around it. But those making the rules with be the ones with the most money, so I’m certain they’ll find a way to tweak it to their advantage.

 

[stinger78]

This could create parity in the long run if they build rules around it. But those making the rules with be the ones with the most money, so I’m certain they’ll find a way to tweak it to their advantage.

Unless they go to a pro model, and seek an anti-trust exemption with a union and CBA, or go the route of employee, which I cannot see happening, this will be a new model for semi-pro sports.

Seems to me the only way to get there is for some umbrella organization (NCAA?) to implement actions to restrict and normalize movement and let it play out in court. That is the long, expensive route.

IMPO, it would be better to just implement a pro model, set up the union and CBA, with salary guidelines, and seek the exemption. It’s full-on pro ball and needs the structure pro ball has developed through decades of experience and litigation.

ETA: Just saw Baker’s response to Congress. Forget the NCAA, those folks aren’t the sharpest crayons to say the least.

 

[Bogart]

Schools are not for profit sports teams. All the sports leagurs also have some antitrust exemption. Again, how can you have a contract that limits what school a person can attend? You cannot. Another problem is that players are not exactly employees of the university, but rather this quasi student/employee. The employment non compete contract fails because academics are still involved. They would have to be full time employees with no other status with the university to make that contract work.

Also, since the players are getting their money from third parties outside the school, any contract that limits the players ability to make money from third parties woulld be illegal.

This is out of the NCAA and the schools' control until they are granted some exemption to limit transfers.

You said:

“All the sports leagurs also have some antitrust exemption.”

I don’t think that statement is accurate.


“In the US, three of the four major professional sports leagues do not have any general exemption from Federal antitrust laws. In a court challenge, all major leagues except baseball, would be subject to the antitrust laws under the Rule of Reason analysis, but generally not under the stricter per se rule. Because of this, leagues and clubs are able to counter an accusation of anticompetitive behavior with justification based on the special circumstances inherent in maintaining a professional league.”

https://digitalcommons.law.villanova.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1321&context=mslj



“To protect the rights of workers, unions were formed to negotiate employment contracts collectively in order to achieve a collective bargaining agreement (CBA). In the sports industry, the unions that represent the players are called players associations. Labor and antitrust issues are governed primarily by federal statutes.

Baseball, football, basketball, and hockey have all had legal battles involving the application of the antitrust laws. Baseball has held a unique exemption from antitrust laws in accordance with the interpretation of the Supreme Court in Federal Baseball Club of Baltimore, Inc. v. National League of Professional Baseball Clubs(1922). The Court held that antitrust laws do not apply to professional baseball.

The case, Flood v. Kuhn, (407 U.S. 258,) eventually went to the Supreme Court. Flood’s attorney, former Supreme Court Justice Arthur Goldberg, asserted that the reserve clause depressed wages and limited players to one team for life. Ultimately, the Supreme Court, acting on stare decisis “to stand by things decided”, ruled 5-3 in favor of Major League Baseball, upholding the 1922 ruling in the case of Federal Baseball Club v. National League.

Ironically, even though Curt Flood lost the lawsuit, the reserve clause was struck down in 1975. Arbitrator Peter Seitz ruled that since pitchers Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally played for one season without a contract, they could become free agents. This decision essentially dismantled the reserve clause and opened up the door to free agency.”

https://sportslaw.uslegal.com/antitrust-and-labor-law-issues-in-sports/

 

[stinger78]

Schools are not for profit sports teams. All the sports leagurs also have some antitrust exemption. Again, how can you have a contract that limits what school a person can attend? You cannot. Another problem is that players are not exactly employees of the university, but rather this quasi student/employee. The employment non compete contract fails because academics are still involved. They would have to be full time employees with no other status with the university to make that contract work.

Also, since the players are getting their money from third parties outside the school, any contract that limits the players ability to make money from third parties woulld be illegal.

This is out of the NCAA and the schools' control until they are granted some exemption to limit transfers.

First off, there are for profit schools, but I take your point. What is different now, and what is driving the angst of guys like you and me, is these guys are no longer (or maybe minimally) students. There is a qualitative difference. So then, let’s drop the illusion of schools being NPs and just make these guys contractors for the AAs. Then seek a pro model and all that entails.

Adherence to a commitment has been sliding away for decades. Remember when CPJ was considered a dinosaur for suggesting a recruit honor his commitment? Now there’s open $$$ in front of them. It’s madness. No wonder guys like Saban and Claussen have just retired rather than seal with it.

 

[danny daniel]

The easiest solution is for it to go back to sit one, unless a coach leaves in a way but using contracts. Remove "signing day" and make it where you can sign someone at any time. NIL contracts come with buyouts (you sign for 2 years you leave after 1 you owe etc) Some players might sing 4 year deals. remove the concept of a redshirt everyone gets 5 years of eligibility with a 6th year grant if a player is on track to graduate with a graduate degree at the time of asking. NIL contracts would have a breach out clause should a circumstance outside the players control happen (coach leaves/is fired) forcing a transfer with a medical out clause for an ill family nuclear family members (mother, father, sibling, wife,child).

Second the concept of a "scholarship" is gone. Players pay for school like everyone else. Its worked into the NIL payout. This will actually benefit non athletes as schools will now have a nice incentive to keep tuition cost down again. A player can gain an academic scholarship to the school like any other student.

This will also sorta fix the transfer portal. That moves to May and exists for a 4 week period. It operates more like free agency and since you have actual contracts with binding agreements it would only be for a small number. Players would know if coaches were going to resign them after spring cuts giving the players and coaches the summer to work out these deals through their front office.

The moving of the free agency period to may also incentivizes playing in bowl games, and helps out with retention.

I also am in favor of moving an FCS game to the spring window. The idea being your starters likely sit but the FCS schools get the revenue they need for their programs/NIL and you get a good look at your depth. A player that is getting cut also has a chance for some game film prior to increase their stock. Removing FCS games from the Regular season and reducing the season from 12 games to 11 allows us to move the start date of a 16 team playoff up and removes the .500 season. Making the bowl games better.

Some excellent suggestions here for improvement to several of the problems. Its a good start for needed reforms.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

ETA: Just saw Baker’s response to Congress. Forget the NCAA, those folks aren’t the sharpest crayons to say the least.

The NCAA is THE entity that created a rigged sport where they protected cheating by some schools and hammered others. They did nothing to stop the paying of players when it was against their own rules.

Anyone who wants any model where there is not a true 3rd party enforcement branch are just wanting a rigged sport where the GT’s have no chance. We have lost to UGA at a high percentage rate for decades because they have cheated the payment rules and academic rules in order to bring in better players. Under the portal and NIL system, GT has closed the gap with the UGA’s and Bama’s fast. If you don’t see it then you aren’t paying attention. When did GT have a top 25 recruiting class under the old system when 15 programs bought the top players? We signed our first 5 star because we could play by the same rules finally. We have a stud QB we got via transfer. Everyone saying teams will just buy championships are talking about the past not the present.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

You said:

“All the sports leagurs also have some antitrust exemption.”

I don’t think that statement is accurate.


“In the US, three of the four major professional sports leagues do not have any general exemption from Federal antitrust laws. In a court challenge, all major leagues except baseball, would be subject to the antitrust laws under the Rule of Reason analysis, but generally not under the stricter per se rule. Because of this, leagues and clubs are able to counter an accusation of anticompetitive behavior with justification based on the special circumstances inherent in maintaining a professional league.”

https://digitalcommons.law.villanova.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1321&context=mslj



“To protect the rights of workers, unions were formed to negotiate employment contracts collectively in order to achieve a collective bargaining agreement (CBA). In the sports industry, the unions that represent the players are called players associations. Labor and antitrust issues are governed primarily by federal statutes.

Baseball, football, basketball, and hockey have all had legal battles involving the application of the antitrust laws. Baseball has held a unique exemption from antitrust laws in accordance with the interpretation of the Supreme Court in Federal Baseball Club of Baltimore, Inc. v. National League of Professional Baseball Clubs(1922). The Court held that antitrust laws do not apply to professional baseball.

The case, Flood v. Kuhn, (407 U.S. 258,) eventually went to the Supreme Court. Flood’s attorney, former Supreme Court Justice Arthur Goldberg, asserted that the reserve clause depressed wages and limited players to one team for life. Ultimately, the Supreme Court, acting on stare decisis “to stand by things decided”, ruled 5-3 in favor of Major League Baseball, upholding the 1922 ruling in the case of Federal Baseball Club v. National League.

Ironically, even though Curt Flood lost the lawsuit, the reserve clause was struck down in 1975. Arbitrator Peter Seitz ruled that since pitchers Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally played for one season without a contract, they could become free agents. This decision essentially dismantled the reserve clause and opened up the door to free agency.”

https://sportslaw.uslegal.com/antitrust-and-labor-law-issues-in-sports/

I said they have SOME exemption, which they all do.

 

[4shotB]

Everyone saying teams will just buy championships are talking about the past not the present.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Personally, I’d prefer the Feds stay out of it. They created this mess.

I appreciate the sentiment but, alas, it was the NCAA that created this mess. Had they not allowed certain anointed programs to skirt the rules, pay players, and professionalize the sport, while thousands of other athlete’s didn’t get the same privileges, it wouldn’t have required an outside entity to step in and try to level the playing field for all athletes.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

The difference is in the past only a few schools could buy players while others got punished. Now, EVERYONE can buy players. And it’s no fluke that we have closed the gap on the top teams. Why GT fans are against NIL and the portal I simply can’t understand. We have benefitted more than just about any other program. Seriously, show me another team that has jumped into the top 25 of recruiting rankings? Teams like Ohio St, Mich, UGA, Oregon already had top 5 recruiting rankings. NIL won’t help them nearly as much which is why Saban retired. He knew his under the table system was obsolete now.

 

[stinger78]

I appreciate the sentiment but, alas, it was the NCAA that created this mess. Had they not allowed certain anointed programs to skirt the rules, pay players, and professionalize the sport, while thousands of other athlete’s didn’t get the same privileges, it wouldn’t have required an outside entity to step in and try to level the playing field for all athletes.

Respectfully disagree. Yes, the NCAA made a hash of it, but what’s happening now was bound to happen through the courts with the rapid commercialization of college football and basketball. Was the NCAA part and parcel of that? Yes, but the original hole in the dam was the 1984 decision to open up TV negotiation rights to the schools.

 

[4shotB]

. Why GT fans are against NIL and the portal I simply can’t understand. We have benefitted more than just about any other program.

This is an intriguing question and raises some questions that @vamosjackets raised somewhere else. There are two things that have changed - both the rules by which the game is played and equally as important (imo) is the top down commitment to engage into the sport fully under the new set of rules. As you have pointed out on more than a few occasions, Tech was one of those schools that was content to follow the so-called rules and maintain the status quo. Athletics were not all that important and it was painfully obvious. That as much if not moreso than the TO offense and the worst hire in the history of the school was driving the dwindling attendance and fan interest. Now we are at a unique situation - some? most? of us older fans don't care much for the new landscape. You read the posts here as much as I do. But yet, as you suggest, the tide does seem to be turning in our favor (no pun intended). Is it the new rules? the new commitment from the CEO? Some combination of both? It remains to be seen. It's exciting and scary times to be sure. What I do think (with as much certainty as one can muster in regards to the future) if GT shows it can't or won't compete in this new arena, that the other circumstances we have talked about will drive a very large % of the older fan base away from the game, That will be the death blow of GT sports unless you can replace the exiting fans with new ones, which I don't believe is possible.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Respectfully disagree. Yes, the NCAA made a hash of it, but what’s happening now was bound to happen through the courts with the rapid commercialization of college football and basketball. Was the NCAA part and parcel of that? Yes, but the original hole in the dam was the 1984 decision to open up TV negotiation rights to the schools.

Whatever the genesis, the problem is a system that started with a fatal flaw and every attempt to correct the system, that doesn’t address that fatal flaw, will always have unforeseen consequences.

When did college athletes in general, and football players in particular, become so unique in higher education that they are continually in a special category analogous to no other student role? It’s a rhetorical question.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

First off, there are for profit schools, but I take your point. What is different now, and what is driving the angst of guys like you and me, is these guys are no longer (or maybe minimally) students. There is a qualitative difference. So then, let’s drop the illusion of schools being NPs and just make these guys contractors for the AAs. Then seek a pro model and all that entails.

Adherence to a commitment has been sliding away for decades. Remember when CPJ was considered a dinosaur for suggesting a recruit honor his commitment? Now there’s open $$$ in front of them. It’s madness. No wonder guys like Saban and Claussen have just retired rather than seal with it.

My point us that the players and the programs have to be completely disconnected from the school in order for any non compete contract to work. That would also require some exemption to limit transfers. I doubt this happens until.this all collapses

 

[leatherneckjacket]

The difference is in the past only a few schools could buy players while others got punished. Now, EVERYONE can buy players. And it’s no fluke that we have closed the gap on the top teams. Why GT fans are against NIL and the portal I simply can’t understand. We have benefitted more than just about any other program. Seriously, show me another team that has jumped into the top 25 of recruiting rankings? Teams like Ohio St, Mich, UGA, Oregon already had top 5 recruiting rankings. NIL won’t help them nearly as much which is why Saban retired. He knew his under the table system was obsolete now.

First of all, I do not believe we have benefitted more than most programs. We have benefitted, but we have also been hurt. I am not sure if it has been net positive or not, but it is debatable. Regardless, even it has been debatable, i find it hard to accept we have benefitted more than most.

But let's say for the sake of argument that this is true, this version of college football where every player is completely up for grabs and looking to get the largest paycheck they can get, where teams are tampering with players not in the portal, where all academics have been completely disregarded, is not enjoyable for me. Regardless if there was sanctioned cheating and inequities, I knew who to cheer for, who was on the team, and who was going to eventually play. Now, I have to learn who is on the team every six months. There is no team, no program, no continuity.

 

[slugboy]

First of all, I do not believe we have benefitted more than most programs. We have benefitted, but we have also been hurt. I am not sure if it has been net positive or not, but it is debatable. Regardless, even it has been debatable, i find it hard to accept we have benefitted more than most.

But let's say for the sake of argument that this is true, this version of college football where every player is completely up for grabs and looking to get the largest paycheck they can get, where teams are tampering with players not in the portal, where all academics have been completely disregarded, is not enjoyable for me. Regardless if there was sanctioned cheating and inequities, I knew who to cheer for, who was on the team, and who was going to eventually play. Now, I have to learn who is on the team every six months. There is no team, no program, no continuity.

Ole Miss has benefited the most, with Ohio State, Texas, and some other well funded schools right behind.

We are working to get back where we were before TFG. He set the bar is so low, that it looks like NIL is helping (I think it hurts us more than it helps)

 

[stinger78]

Ole Miss has benefited the most, with Ohio State, Texas, and some other well funded schools right behind.

We are working to get back where we were before TFG. He set the bar is so low, that it looks like NIL is helping (I think it hurts us more than it helps)

Agree. As a place ghat requires a long view toward building a program, I can’t see how NIL would favor us at the bottom line.

 

[Root4GT]

How does paying an FCS team ~$1M to come to BDS, when we will likely be underwater on game cost vs. gate receipts, help our budget? Incremental TV revenue? What am I missing?

Those games are part of the ACC TV packet so GT does not lose money playing them. P4 teams need wins to become better, get to a Bowl Game and increase fan interest in the Program. GT always plays UGA (extremely hard game) and one more P4/ND game. That is 10 tough or Peer games (with 8 conference games). Need a couple of likely wins every year!

 

[Root4GT]

Respectfully disagree. Yes, the NCAA made a hash of it, but what’s happening now was bound to happen through the courts with the rapid commercialization of college football and basketball. Was the NCAA part and parcel of that? Yes, but the original hole in the dam was the 1984 decision to open up TV negotiation rights to the schools.

Had that gone to court the NCAA would have lost as they have on virtually lawsuit brought against them. Paying players was eventually going to happen. The NCAA simply failed to try and establish reasonable guidelines before the Courts ruled against the Old System.

 

[WreckinGT]

The difference is in the past only a few schools could buy players while others got punished. Now, EVERYONE can buy players. And it’s no fluke that we have closed the gap on the top teams. Why GT fans are against NIL and the portal I simply can’t understand. We have benefitted more than just about any other program. Seriously, show me another team that has jumped into the top 25 of recruiting rankings? Teams like Ohio St, Mich, UGA, Oregon already had top 5 recruiting rankings. NIL won’t help them nearly as much which is why Saban retired. He knew his under the table system was obsolete now.

It's hard to tell how much a top 25 recruiting class helps us in this new world to be honest. Sure, we probably spent alot for a pretty good recruiting class. How many of those guys are we going to spend 1-2 years developing into good players only to see them take a huge bag to play elsewhere?