Rhett Lashlee

Sean311

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,672
Quick question for those who want a new coach: If CPJ replicates his success on a level between what he accomplished between 2008 and 2009 this season, are you still going to be wanting a new coach?

No..don't see it happening though
 

DCSS

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
637
Location
Tennessee
It's a lot easier for a qb to read a DE who runs a 5.1 forty (HS) than one who runs a 4.6 (FBS).
The whole game is faster at the collegiate level. Not sure I understand your point. Is CPJ's offense complicated (Calculus on grass) or simple (high school)?
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,042
Desuan Watson will most likely end up starting. Modern spread offenses are a lot easier to learn for players. In turn they can play faster and be more athletic. Also you see a lot fewer mistakes.

We'll see. Most Clemson fans I've talked to disagree with you on the Watson thing. You might be right about the easier to learn I got no experience learning or teaching these offenses but being "modern" has got nothing to do with it. And I'd wager the fewer mistakes is some confirmation bias.

It's a lot easier for a qb to read a DE who runs a 5.1 forty (HS) than one who runs a 4.6 (FBS).

Where all these 4.6 DE you keep talking about? Three DL ran a 4.6 or better. Three. Seven a 4.7 or better. Yea I guess FBS is full of these guys.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
The whole game is faster at the collegiate level. Not sure I understand your point. Is CPJ's offense complicated (Calculus on grass) or simple (high school)?
Let me spell it out for you. ITS TO HARD TO CONSISTENTLY READ A DEFENSIVE END WITH GOOD SPEED. IT TAKES 3 YEARS FOR A QB TO LEARN CPJ'S VERSION OF THE SYSTEM. BTW hardly any Georgia HS's run the flexbone anymore.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
Where all these 4.6 DE you keep talking about? Three DL ran a 4.6 or better. Three. Seven a 4.7 or better. Yea I guess FBS is full of these guys.
Excuse me, let me adjust my examples to laser timed 40's for you. It's harder to read a defensive end who runs a 4.8 than it is to read a HS DE who runs a 5.4 forty.
 

Mitch Matthews

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
88
Don't forget Hatcher (who's first name escapes me) aka the next big offensive guru from Valdosta St. was supposedly a candidate. We were trying to get in early on that genius. You know, before he blew up and landed in the league or something. How's he doing nowadays?
Chris hatcher, ugh, he ruined GSU for years... Don't ever mention him again, it's a sin to speak of him
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
Then why did I see no less than half the teams in the state playoffs run it last year?

That was the Wing-T. That IS a HS offense. It's actually not even close to what we run, other than some have adapted the midline as part of their system. Base formation looks similar to the average fan, but trust me it's not even close.
 
Messages
166
That was the Wing-T. That IS a HS offense. It's actually not even close to what we run, other than some have adapted the midline as part of their system. Base formation looks similar to the average fan, but trust me it's not even close.
I'm looking at some videos now, and the big difference to me looks like they use sweeps as opposed to option plays. If high schools don't run it anymore, I'd buy that it's because you can't install it quick enough with the reduction in "pad time" the last 10 yrs more than I'd buy that they quit running it because it doesn't work. Especially against big school level defenders...
 

stylee

Ramblin' Wreck
Featured Member
Messages
603
The Wing T is a fundamentally different approach to offense than what we run. I don't think DE speed is an issue to the same extent nodawgs believes, but he is right that the Wing T is a mile away from what we do.

Luallen was a Wing T QB in HS and for some reason people thought that would carryover. It doesn't
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,042
Excuse me, let me adjust my examples to laser timed 40's for you. It's harder to read a defensive end who runs a 4.8 than it is to read a HS DE who runs a 5.4 forty.

See was that so hard? When you have to use hyperbole to make your point it really weakens what you're trying to say. I'd also point out that only 12 or so ran that fast at the combine so it's not as ubiquitous as you try to make it sound but you'd probably go all caps lock on me like you did above.

Let me spell it out for you. ITS TO HARD TO CONSISTENTLY READ A DEFENSIVE END WITH GOOD SPEED. IT TAKES 3 YEARS FOR A QB TO LEARN CPJ'S VERSION OF THE SYSTEM. BTW hardly any Georgia HS's run the flexbone anymore.

I think you missed his point. Obviously you're not wrong. It's harder to read a faster DE at the college level then a slower one at the high school level. That's common sense. What I believe @DCSS is trying to say (and he can correct me if I'm wrong) is that the offense being more difficult to execute against bigger faster is true for every single offense ever created. Not some inherent weakness in our scheme like you appear to be claiming.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,487
It's called "predetermined reads." Get your head out of the sand.
My initial reply, to your condescending reply, was apparently deemed too offensive by the mods. So I will try again. Here are a couple facts for you to absorb. Nesbitt and company did run option plays in 08 and 09. They learned the system well enough in the spring and fall camps to implement it with success in 08. Now try and keep your head out of the sand bub...or out of whatever location you tend to keep it where the sun don't shine.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
I think you missed his point. Obviously you're not wrong. It's harder to read a faster DE at the college level then a slower one at the high school level. That's common sense. What I believe @DCSS is trying to say (and he can correct me if I'm wrong) is that the offense being more difficult to execute against bigger faster is true for every single offense ever created. Not some inherent weakness in our scheme like you appear to be claiming.
Ah the old "it's the same for everyone else" argument. Let me explain it this way. Faster defenses make it harder to make blocks, you are correct. Faster defenses make it harder for skill players to make their blocks and stay on their feet. (Your point is still valid). Where you point becomes invalid is that CPJ's offense is the only offense in major college football where a read must be made in a 2 foot gap 5 feet from the ball in under half a second. That certainly is not the same for everyone else.
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,042
Ah the old "it's the same for everyone else" argument.

Well for the most part it is. One of the things I hate is how our offense attracts a lot of "unique" criticism which isn't really unique at all.

Let me explain it this way. Faster defenses make it harder to make blocks, you are correct. Faster defenses make it harder for skill players to make their blocks and stay on their feet. (Your point is still valid). Where you point becomes invalid is that CPJ's offense is the only offense in major college football where a read must be made in a 2 foot gap 5 feet from the ball in under half a second. That certainly is not the same for everyone else.

This is a fair point. If it's accurate then I can buy that.
 

stylee

Ramblin' Wreck
Featured Member
Messages
603
I think the speed of the decision can be framed as a positive or a negative. That is, the QB has to react quickly...but he has less to react to, as the read man has less time to play games. Once the QB understands the basic teaching points, it's not really that difficult to "see the read, be the read."

And to be honest with you, Vad's option % wasn't terrible. He had bad games, just like Tevin did (Miami 2011 being one of his worst) but, on the whole, Vad was about average with the basic read percentage. Where Vad was sub-mediocre in 2013 was what happened in the next phase of the option. He very rarely attacked the pitch read, did not stay on his track, did not run aggressively after securing a "keep" read from the OLB, etc. I think that was evident to most fans - he just wasn't running with the ball the way he needed to
 
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