Retaining Players in the Portal Era

[LongforDodd]

going to be funny to see half the players go to jail for not paying their taxes

Pardons will be handed out like candy

 

[Randy Carson]

Pardons will be handed out like candy

Nah.

Tax day is after January 20.

 

[stinger78]

Nah.

Tax day is after January 20.

The tax man cometh.

 

[GoldZ]

Money-wise, I don’t understand how the NIL model is sustainable but frankly, there’s a lot of other businesses that seem to be doing just fine with me questioning why people spend their money there. Just because it doesn’t make sense to me, doesn’t mean it won’t work…

Having a large six or potentially seven figure sum of money at such a young age, should theoretically set them up for life.

I remember at Tech, we were required to take a 1 hour class from the industrial engineering college - basically how to manage money. Hopefully stuff like that is still taught.

One of the most valuable courses I took at Ma.

 

[GoldZ]

these are great questions and ones that I have been thinking about as well. In general, the comments made here on the topic seem to be mostly negative about the current state of affairs (there are exceptions to this of course). However (imo), this has been largely offest by the positive trend under Key, Batt and Cabrera. I don't want to speak for others but, at the moment, the positives are outweighing the negatives. However, this is true at GT. What about at Wake Forest, which used to be competitive more or less but doesn't seem to have the deisre to compete under the new paradigm. They lost a damn fine FB coach as a result. So, I think a lot of especially us older fans are waiting and watching. Right now, we have our fingers crossed but the moment GT looks to be unable or unwilling to compete for ACC championships, the surrounding circumstances will cause us dinosaurs to fold up our tents and hand the keys over to the next generation. We will return our Saturdays back to other recreational pursuits.

Three generations is all it has taken for many a company built from nothing..... to die with the 3rd Generation. And yet people still think that the bagmen of the past equate to NIL of today. Kinda like comparing Stone Mountain(NIL) to a golf ball(bagmen). Size matters.

 

[cpf2001]

So, I guess SA's are getting smarter and more responsible.
Graduation rate is the most absurd metric for measuring the value of a school I can think of. The only thing it does is lower standards and water down entire fields and professions of human enterprise. That's it. So, congrats for that. (Not talking directly to you @Randy Carson, just tilting at windmills.)

Graduation rate increasing, by itself, doesn’t tell you anything about watering down fields.

Graduation rates increasing by lowering graduation standards does water stuff down.

Graduation rates increasing by being better at teaching and supporting students improves the overall talent base in a field.

Of course, many schools do it by the former approach. But let’s not react by romanticizing the shaft and assuming teaching skills and support skills are irrelevant. We should want to produce more skilled graduates, it’ll be good for all of us in the long run.

 

[LongforDodd]

Some interesting comments about NIL from Dave Clawson during his resignation press conference:

See article and excerpt below

The headwinds of the current era of college football over the past two years at Wake Forest complicated how Clawson built teams. He'd redshirt players to have older rosters, and leaned on continuity and player development as competitive advantages. The inability to retain top talent financially, because of NIL and the transfer portal, has blunted the effectiveness of Wake Forest's edges.

"I tried to embrace it, I tried to fight through it," Clawson said. "I tried to get in the mindset with it. I could do it, I just don't want to do it. It's really where I am. It's not the way I'm wired. It's not how I build programs. It's not why I got into coaching."

There have been plenty of breadcrumbs to Clawson's frustration, and he has hinted at Wake Forest's NIL limitations as the Demon Deacons have gone 4-8 in each of the past two seasons.

After a loss to Louisiana of the Sun Belt earlier this season, Clawson explained his frustration: "To fix problems, you need a lot of money. And we recruited what we could afford."

Clawson resigns as Wake coach, becomes advisor

Wake Forest football coach Dave Clawson has resigned after 11 seasons with the Demon Deacons and will remain with the university in an advisory role.

www.espn.com

This is how I’m beginning to feel as a long time GT supporter.

I respect this admission of Clawson’s tremendously.

 

[4shotB]

Graduation rates increasing by being better at teaching and supporting students improves the overall talent base in a field.

Many, many moons ago I struggled to 'get out". Later in life I became a teacher. My decisions and teaching style were greatly influenced by many of the TA's and profs at GT. Mostly, I learned what not to do. I always felt like that I wanted all my students to do well (providing of course they wanted that as well. Which is true in the overwhelming majority of the cases. Kids want to be succesful but will go out of their way to act like they don't if they aren't).

 

[GoldZ]

We lowered standards when we stopped flunking kids in the late 60s. Look at how much homework your kids and grandkids have vs yours. SAT/ACT on the way out...why...politically incorrect.

The shaft wasn't the way to go, but lowering standards isn't either.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

We lowered standards when we stopped flunking kids in the late 60s. Look at how much homework your kids and grandkids have vs yours. SAT/ACT on the way out...why...politically incorrect.

The shaft wasn't the way to go, but lowering standards isn't either.

On your last statement, I do think the "shaft" that many of us were impaled by was over the top - especially when you throw "drownproofing" into the mix.

But, I do also think the chances that companies hiring GT grads getting almost guaranteed high end people was much greater.

Did some great people not "get out" of GT? Sure, but by eliminating the grade deflation that a lot us suffered through, you create an environment where everything is "fair". But, in life, everything is definitely not fair. I think this gave GT an advantage.

If you had asked me if I had this same opinion for my first 25 years out of college, I would have said "no", but now after seeing what is being done to dumb down and create a lack of discipline and personal responsibility, I actually think the original GT academic model was a positive.

I got out in '85 with a BEE (yes, that is how GT gave degrees, the "science" was assumed ). Was I the smartest person to graduate Tech? Far from it, and I know some very smart kids who didn't make it. But, with me, a company was getting a "survivor" who would turn over every stone until solutions to problems were found and implemented.

 

[cpf2001]

Anyone who got out of GT with a degree but couldn’t get in to MIT or an Ivy is an example of the flaw with the “just flunk em” approach.

Those schools wash people out in high school. GT did it in college (still does, but to a lesser extent, with better support and higher entry requirements now).

That four year difference isn’t a hard and fast “this is the right point to flunk em” line. Nobody here would say it’s lowering standard to hire a GR grad instead of an Ivy grad.

But people on a Harvard or MIT forum might!

And people here might say hiring someone with a TAMU degree is. Neither is correct.

 

[apatriot1776]

I may be misunderstanding your post, but I think your gold colored glasses might be obscuring your vision. You have named some players that I don’t think have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting drafted into the nfl.

I’m saying I think they could sneak into a late round pick with a good workout and our improved exposure (specifically thinking Van den Berg here) and show we can get guys into the league. Not saying any of them are surefire day 1 picks. Any one of them could also be a UDFA, what do I know. But I was never impressed with Jalen Camp or Tyler Davis and they both made it to the league on a good workout.

 

[forensicbuzz]

We lowered standards when we stopped flunking kids in the late 60s. Look at how much homework your kids and grandkids have vs yours. SAT/ACT on the way out...why...politically incorrect.

The shaft wasn't the way to go, but lowering standards isn't either.

Graduation rate was still about 35% in the early 90's. Not sure what you're talking about in the 60's.

 

[croberts]

Some interesting comments about NIL from Dave Clawson during his resignation press conference:

See article and excerpt below

The headwinds of the current era of college football over the past two years at Wake Forest complicated how Clawson built teams. He'd redshirt players to have older rosters, and leaned on continuity and player development as competitive advantages. The inability to retain top talent financially, because of NIL and the transfer portal, has blunted the effectiveness of Wake Forest's edges.

"I tried to embrace it, I tried to fight through it," Clawson said. "I tried to get in the mindset with it. I could do it, I just don't want to do it. It's really where I am. It's not the way I'm wired. It's not how I build programs. It's not why I got into coaching."

There have been plenty of breadcrumbs to Clawson's frustration, and he has hinted at Wake Forest's NIL limitations as the Demon Deacons have gone 4-8 in each of the past two seasons.

After a loss to Louisiana of the Sun Belt earlier this season, Clawson explained his frustration: "To fix problems, you need a lot of money. And we recruited what we could afford."

Clawson resigns as Wake coach, becomes advisor

Wake Forest football coach Dave Clawson has resigned after 11 seasons with the Demon Deacons and will remain with the university in an advisory role.

www.espn.com

Very sad. Great coach. Great record for a have not.

 

[bke1984]

Food for thought - when the schools have to pay these kids part of that $22M (whenever that starts), do the kids become employees? If so, are they employees of the state in many cases (I.e. government employees)? If so then any bribes that go there way are now considered a felony and punishable by prison time and hefty fines. I’m fairly certain much of what happens in discussions with these players could be considered bribes.

 

[stinger78]

 

[CEB]

Food for thought - when the schools have to pay these kids part of that $22M (whenever that starts), do the kids become employees? If so, are they employees of the state in many cases (I.e. government employees)? If so then any bribes that go there way are now considered a felony and punishable by prison time and hefty fines. I’m fairly certain much of what happens in discussions with these players could be considered bribes.

The $22m is settlement as I understand. Even though the settlement is for what they should’ve earned, I don’t think that necessarily cements their status as an employee.
That said, bribery wouldn’t hinge upon their status as employees either… at least I wouldn’t think so.
However, proving that NIL is bribery is going to be just like proving that it is actually “pay for play.” I wouldn’t hold my breath for either.

 

[g0lftime]

I would assume a player could be signed as a contract employee with terms and conditions with obligations by both parties. In industry, the contract had a finite length of time, and no benefits, e.g. medical, retirement, paid vacation, etc. There were regulations that prevented these contract employees from being rehired over and over consecutively so companies could avoid benefits. My experience was that contractors were compensated better than regular employees for equivalent scope of work to compensate for lack of benefits.
Labor laws might have to be tweaked to allow player contracts for consecutive renewals and termination obligations. Scholarships, tutoring, housing, and medical support would need to be included. Would those exempted perks otherwise become taxable?

 

[GoldZ]

Graduation rate was still about 35% in the early 90's. Not sure what you're talking about in the 60's.

We stopped flunking kids in elementary and high school because it wasn't PC. We are still paying the price for such and ironically so are the very people the can't fail approach, was meant to help. Imo

It was the essence of lowering the standard and is still going on today. Ever notice how many cars have those my kid is an honor student sticker ?

 

[Buzzforlife]