Redditor's Take on Why Georgia Tech Struggles in Recruiting

[Skeptic]

I appreciate the kind words. The kids do like the fact that I have had a "real job" (their words not mine). The ability to reason,do math and think logically opened some doors for me. Hopefully it will do the same for the youngsters I teach. One of the many issues facing a student in a rural school is the fact that 99% of the people that they know and interact with have never lived anywhere else. It's a very closed system. This includes all of their teachers, who attended college within an hour or two from their home and then return home immediately after graduation to teach. Don't get me wrong, most of my colleagues are professional and do their best for the kids. But their idea of "college ready" after attending teacher's school at nearby eastern State U isn't the same as mine after going through GT's engineering school.

By all means read "Hillbilly Elegy" by J.D. Vance. He is talking about Kentucky and southern Ohio. But it seems a distinction without a difference. Remarkable similarities all linked I suppose to Scots-Irish and Appalachian migration.

 

[iceeater1969]

We need to recruit hard in our current area and start casting a wider net. The Tech men are out there. When they hear the sell, they will come.
Need more young assistant coaches added to our present coaches. Some of our present coaches are really good at recruiting. Others with a little help can do fine.

If we do that and have a couple of good seasons, things could be much more successful for a long time. Ga Tech is a very special school and it's rich football tradiation could return again.

 

[4shotB]

By all means read "Hillbilly Elegy" by J.D. Vance. He is talking about Kentucky and southern Ohio. But it seems a distinction without a difference. Remarkable similarities all linked I suppose to Scots-Irish and Appalachian migration.

I will by all means read that book. I was born and raised in the Appalachian foothills. Live and teach there now. Have walked every single mile of the trail that runs through it. Fascinated by the culture. Have you by chance read any of the fictional work by either Donald Ray Pollack or Daniel Woodrell (the Ozark mountains but the experience seems the same).? If not, I believe you might be interested. (to everyone, apologies for getting off tangent.)

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

Every year we have the same old conversation.

GT Negs, in no particular order, and I realize for most of us, some of these are not negs, but positives.

• Ratio is better, but still not so great
• No "easy" majors, and professors are not going to go easy on athletes
• Downtown, which can be used to frighten parents
• Very difficult to get degree on time, and even harder for division 1 athlete
• Limited offering of majors
• Offense is easy to neg recruit against, due to players thinking that the NFL will not give them the same consideration (whether true or not)
• This also affects, IMO, the defensive recruiting, because of the "cut" blocking in practice stories that get told to the D recruits
• Russell "swag" is definitely not looked upon as positively as Nike, UA or Adidas
• Stadium smaller, and fan base much smaller (and those gold seats are very embarrassing)

Sure I am missing some, but basically, these are, in no particular order, the larger ones......

 

[jacketup]

Reading this thread makes me think lots of Tech fans don't think much of Tech. I've heard these excuses for 47 years. I'm glad Homer Rice and Bobby Ross ignored them.

We're different. Homer Rice embraced those differences. We have disadvantages, but we have advantages. As Kim King recognized, we might not be capable of a perennial top 10 team, but with the right leadership we can be a perennial top 25 team.

If you are a Tech man (or woman), please stop with the excuses. Excuses are for losers.

 

[Skeptic]

I will by all means read that book. I was born and raised in the Appalachian foothills. Live and teach there now. Have walked every single mile of the trail that runs through it. Fascinated by the culture. Have you by chance read any of the fictional work by either Donald Ray Pollack or Daniel Woodrell (the Ozark mountains but the experience seems the same).? If not, I believe you might be interested. (to everyone, apologies for getting off tangent.)

I have not but now i will. Thanks.

 

[augustabuzz]

NM

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Maybe some of you alums in different career paths and/or living in the suburbs or up in the Northeast would dispute this number.

I would simply add that the five years I lived in Massachusetts I was practically awestruck at how good the public schools were compared to the school systems I encountered in the south. There are probably several factors that contribute to this that one would have to break down in terms of social / economic strata and such, but the point I would make is pretty basic. A high percentage of kids from Massachusetts could definitely get into and finish at Tech. However, this is not a hot bed for high school football players. And therein is the challenge for Tech. If Tech were located in another part of the country, where it could cherry pick the best academic candidates and best football players, it might be different. Some will disagree with me but I contend that if Tech were in California or in the Midwest, threading the recruiting needle between athletics and academics would not be quite as hard.

 

[4shotB]

There are probably several factors that contribute to this that one would have to break down in terms of social / economic strata and such, but the point I would make is pretty basic.

Stinger, I am quite certain there are indeed many factors that contribute to the differences you have seen. If I could pick just two I would say "priorities" and "lack of role models". Outside of a few professionals (lawyers, doctors, dentists, etc.) in town and their teachers , the kids do not know anyone who used college to better themselves. The few who did make it out aren't around to serve as role models. Their parents and grandparents "did OK without college..or even high school" but they worked in local factories (before wage stagnation, some of them closing, loss of pensions and other benefits, etc.) or farmed (tobacco was a big crop a generation or more ago but it has dried up). Making a living on a 100 acre farm is no longer feasible.The older generation doesn't quit understand that their offspring is not coming out into the same economic climate that they did.

Regarding priorities, ala some of the SEC schools, football is the raison d'etre of our school (and most nearby). Our school regularly bends the rules to keep players eligible and even ignores some of the state rules governing practice time, player eligibility, etc. The emphasis on FB begins in elementary school when the kids begin in pee wee. As a result of this, our school is known state wide for its FB with several state titles. Occasionally we will have SA's get scholarships but to my knowledge none have ever completed college. Two in my short tenure dropped out in the first semester and came back home. Two of our better players were being looked at by SEC schools but were denied admittance (by Kentucky and Miss. State!). I would say most (not all) of our FB players graduate with the academic skills of an 8th grader at a rigorous (or perhaps I could even use the word adequate here) school.

We are in an economically challenged or even depressed area. However, I think we have the resources here in terms of brick and mortar AND faculty (our math and science teachers are excellent imo) to compete with most any area IF (and this is a big IF) we as a community had the desire to make academics our first priority. However, decades ago (either the 80's or 90's) an "outsider" principal came in and tried to change the culture. And was run out of town. Ever since, the administration is a local product who understands his or her marching orders. The change will not happen unless the community wants it. To the community, status quo is fine. Again, they are insulated from the outside world and lack a "global perspective"to understand why they need to change.

again, not trying to thread hijack. I think this mindset or culture is not unique to our small community and happens all too often in the South...thus shrinking the recruiting pool for GT.

 

[Milwaukee]

I would simply add that the five years I lived in Massachusetts I was practically awestruck at how good the public schools were compared to the school systems I encountered in the south.

So much this.

 

[Skeptic]

Stinger, I am quite certain there are indeed many factors that contribute to the differences you have seen. If I could pick just two I would say "priorities" and "lack of role models". Outside of a few professionals (lawyers, doctors, dentists, etc.) in town and their teachers , the kids do not know anyone who used college to better themselves. The few who did make it out aren't around to serve as role models. Their parents and grandparents "did OK without college..or even high school" but they worked in local factories (before wage stagnation, some of them closing, loss of pensions and other benefits, etc.) or farmed (tobacco was a big crop a generation or more ago but it has dried up). Making a living on a 100 acre farm is no longer feasible.The older generation doesn't quit understand that their offspring is not coming out into the same economic climate that they did.

Regarding priorities, ala some of the SEC schools, football is the raison d'etre of our school (and most nearby). Our school regularly bends the rules to keep players eligible and even ignores some of the state rules governing practice time, player eligibility, etc. The emphasis on FB begins in elementary school when the kids begin in pee wee. As a result of this, our school is known state wide for its FB with several state titles. Occasionally we will have SA's get scholarships but to my knowledge none have ever completed college. Two in my short tenure dropped out in the first semester and came back home. Two of our better players were being looked at by SEC schools but were denied admittance (by Kentucky and Miss. State!). I would say most (not all) of our FB players graduate with the academic skills of an 8th grader at a rigorous (or perhaps I could even use the word adequate here) school.

We are in an economically challenged or even depressed area. However, I think we have the resources here in terms of brick and mortar AND faculty (our math and science teachers are excellent imo) to compete with most any area IF (and this is a big IF) we as a community had the desire to make academics our first priority. However, decades ago (either the 80's or 90's) an "outsider" principal came in and tried to change the culture. And was run out of town. Ever since, the administration is a local product who understands his or her marching orders. The change will not happen unless the community wants it. To the community, status quo is fine. Again, they are insulated from the outside world and lack a "global perspective"to understand why they need to change.

again, not trying to thread hijack. I think this mindset or culture is not unique to our small community and happens all too often in the South...thus shrinking the recruiting pool for GT.

If it comes down to that then we in the South remain at the mercy of the populist legislatures that are increasingly conservative and increasingly anti-education. I live in NC and what has happened to us here in just six years is mortifying. In short, improving public education down here is not in the cards, technical or otherwise.

 

[ncjacket79]

im the person that made the reddit post.

The tl;dr is that tech's focus academic culture leaks into everything else that could help with recruiting, and also there are issues with the offense we run and our branding in general. Its hard to get top recruits in state if you aren't the perceived top school brand in the state, have a "tacky" offense. ect. I tried to make the points with my tech glasses off as much as possible.


There's a lot of off-hand jokes just to make it readable (the 80th ranked recruiting class is more of a jab at what CPJ said about us after we beat uga, but i guess that reference went over everyone's head. The kaylee thing is an inside joke between me and a few friends who also browse reddit, so just ignore it. On the topic of uga, i grew up in-state and out of state, so i never really had "Tech Goggles" on due to being exposed to in-state tuition options in illinois. Had i chosen to go food science instead of engineering, i would have gone to Illinois or UGA instead of my pick being down to Tech or Illinois for engineering. I get it, Tech is a top-5 academic public school. But UGA is a top 25 one, which is still really good, but not as great as tech.

1. UGA's psychology program ranks 12 higher than us. UGA has a top 5 Communication school (GT unkranked from what i can tell) , 4th best public policy school, (GT top 30) Depending on the source, uga or GT has the better business school (Bloomber has us higher, US news has uga). Give tech 5 years and i bet most of them will have us higher. Don't get me wrong, GT is undoubtedly the better overall school, but for non-STEM majors, its hard to take off the tech-goggles and acknowledge that georgia actually has a half decent liberal arts program. If you don't want to do liberal arts, than there really isnt a reason to not to choose tech. We're better than them in those fields, its just that those fields are very atypically chosen by athletes.

Changing admissions standards won't change the recruits we get. Won't change how easy or hard classes are. That's the thing holding us back, it isn't that the admissions requirements are too difficult, (we can get around those we have in the past) it's tech's culture that pushes those self imposed limits. The root of the admissions issue isn't we can't let people in, we choose not to due to the academic culture at tech. If the culture changes (we take a harvard appraoch, hard to get in, easy once you're there) those roadblocks would likely ease up.

The general argument is that Tech's academic rigor "leaks" into everything else. If that changes (which let's be honest, most students and alumni wouldn't want it to. We're proud of Tech's academics) then the limits on permits (the issue isn't that uga has more, its that we do them. period. Private schools don't have that luxury. Don't make the minimums can't go. No exceptions. I'm trying to point out that it is a self imposed restriction, not a systematic one, and its again, caused by tech's academic culture).

The main points about social life were more to point out that like most schools in cities, Tech isn't a stereotypical "college town" that some people look for. I know people at my high school turned down Northwestern to go to Illinois for this reason. If you struggle academically in school, social life can be a fall back. Tech doesn't have as strong as a social scene as other schools for this reason. I love buckhead, VA highlands, Edgewood, and all that. Wouldn't trade my friday nights there for anything. But they aren't on campus bars like other schools have.

Triple option hurts too, but we haven't really seen rankings be better outside of 2007 class (which was pointed out that we beat) and due to the relative short time before CPJ that those rankings really existed, we can't really put it up to a barometer test. But based off interviews with players and the like, we can tell that is plays a role.

I also had "struggle" as i don't think tech has really struggled. Due to generally low attrition, our classes are undervalue by ranking sites that take into account more people than tech gets on their roster. We do good with what we got. Wouldn't change anything for it.

If there's other questions. i would love to answer them. Go jackets.

So much wrong with this post. For starters, we set our admissions standards for athletes based on keeping them in, not getting them in. It's not a culture issue, it's a simply matter of them being able to do the work. The "culture" you talk about for schools like Harvard is that once you're in you are capable of doing the work they require, not that the work is easy. My masters is from Duke and I have family who have degress from several highly ranked liberal arts schools. We have this mindset as Tech fans that the work is easy...it's not, it's just that the admissions standards are so rigorous that everyone can handle it. The grading might be easier but the classwork isn't. As far as exceptions, we do allow some but the reason we don't take more is those guys end up flunking out more often than not. Personally i would like us to trust the coaching staff more, but when you lose players to academics it impacts your future classes. Finally, people like to look at the 2007 class, but don't want to admit that very few of those kids graduated or even finished 4 years. If we had the same rules now as we did then, football would be penalized with scholarship losses on an annual basis.

 

[Jacket in Dairyland]

I would simply add that the five years I lived in Massachusetts I was practically awestruck at how good the public schools were compared to the school systems I encountered in the south. There are probably several factors that contribute to this that one would have to break down in terms of social / economic strata and such, but the point I would make is pretty basic. A high percentage of kids from Massachusetts could definitely get into and finish at Tech. However, this is not a hot bed for high school football players. And therein is the challenge for Tech. If Tech were located in another part of the country, where it could cherry pick the best academic candidates and best football players, it might be different. Some will disagree with me but I contend that if Tech were in California or in the Midwest, threading the recruiting needle between athletics and academics would not be quite as hard.

Well, I have lived in the Midwest ( Wisconsin ) for 25+ years. Prior to that I lived in Georgia for 40 years. And I agree with your thoughts. Much of the better SAs in Wisconsin would do well at Tech, IMO. There are not nearly as many D1 football players in Wisconsin as in Georgia ,and the better ones go to UW, or Minn, or Ill, OSU and Mich - especially OL and DL. However, I think that Atlanta, the sunny South, the ACC, and opportunities after graduation, if not the NFL, would appeal to maybe 2-3 kids from Wisconsin a year, and maybe 5 from the entire Midwest. At this point, I don't think we have any recruiting connections in this area. We used to get a few kids from Ohio a number of years back, though. A really good DE if I remember correctly.

 

[Architorture23]

Georgia’s academics, much to the detriment of GT students and grads, are surprisingly on par with Georgia Tech, especially if you take engineering and CS out of the picture.(1) UGA ranks higher than us in every single one of the majors listed above. (2)

This made me laugh.

(1) Take out engineering and CS? That is 75% of our students. And then the business school, which is ranked higher than UGA's, is another 8%.
(2) Of the "above" list, GT only even offered Business and and a BS in LCC. GT's business school is 36 compared to UGA's 67.

Not having all of those majors, or any major really, to "hide" SA's, is a problem at GT. The quality of what we do have is not a problem, however.

 

[Architorture23]

If it comes down to that then we in the South remain at the mercy of the populist legislatures that are increasingly conservative and increasingly anti-education. I live in NC and what has happened to us here in just six years is mortifying. In short, improving public education down here is not in the cards, technical or otherwise.

yes we need the government to save us!

 

[Skeptic]

yes we need the government to save us!

Certainly in public education for sure. The so-called "charter" schools have been very profitable and very useless.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Reading this thread makes me think lots of Tech fans don't think much of Tech. I've heard these excuses for 47 years. I'm glad Homer Rice and Bobby Ross ignored them.

We're different. Homer Rice embraced those differences. We have disadvantages, but we have advantages. As Kim King recognized, we might not be capable of a perennial top 10 team, but with the right leadership we can be a perennial top 25 team.

If you are a Tech man (or woman), please stop with the excuses. Excuses are for losers.

A climber cannot get to the top of the mountain if he cannot see the mountain in front of him.

Moral of the story: there's a difference between excuses and hurdles. The problem solver sees the hurdles and designs a plan of attack to get over them.

 

[forensicbuzz]

A climber cannot get to the top of the mountain if he cannot see the mountain in front of him.

Moral of the story: there's a difference between excuses and hurdles. The problem solver sees the hurdles and designs a plan of attack to get over them.

We're engineers. A little bit of dynamite and some asphalt and we drive to the top.

 

[OldJacketFan]

We're engineers. A little bit of dynamite and some asphalt and we drive to the top.

Pave the Planet per a local, very well know, road contractor!

 

[eg1]

By all means read "Hillbilly Elegy" by J.D. Vance. He is talking about Kentucky and southern Ohio. But it seems a distinction without a difference. Remarkable similarities all linked I suppose to Scots-Irish and Appalachian migration.

If you enjoyed "Hillbilly Elegy" you might also like Joe Bageant's "Rainbow Pie"