Red Shirt vs Playing as True Freshman

[awbuzz]

Using a true freshman just for ST (again the exceptions being snapper, kicker/punter) with no other realistic opportunity of seeing the field in a close game - i.e. not in a mop up roll - just seems to be wasteful for both the player and the team. Losing that year for the player to develop - get stronger, faster, more mature, learn the system, etc. just for the sake of "experience" is folly in most cases.
If a player can make the two deep, then by all means don't redshirt them. If not...

 

[dressedcheeseside]

For me it's real simple, if a guy can help us win ball games, play him. If not, don't. There's 100+ guys on the team counting walkons, if none of them can beat him out for a spot, any spot, play him.

 

[AE 87]

Using a true freshman just for ST (again the exceptions being snapper, kicker/punter) with no other realistic opportunity of seeing the field in a close game - i.e. not in a mop up roll - just seems to be wasteful for both the player and the team. Losing that year for the player to develop - get stronger, faster, more mature, learn the system, etc. just for the sake of "experience" is folly in most cases.
If a player can make the two deep, then by all means don't redshirt them. If not...

We also like to balance numbers across the 5 classes. Last year at this time, we had 7 in the class sceduled to graduate in 2017 (2013 RS). We had to play some tr Fr in part to get that class bigger.

 

[danny daniel]

I'm the last one to argue that ST aren't important. And that is why after the nightmare year which culminated in losing the game to AF almost entirely through ST, that CPJ got religion and started putting our best players onto the field for KO/punts and returns. So if a Fr is one of our best players, I'd expect him to be on ST.

I seem to remember someone listing the Fr who only played ST last year. Who were they in the last two years and what positions? (I know, nothing like facts to ruin a good discussion, but I really don't know.)

One last thing on skill positions: The long snapper is definitely a skill position. They can upset everything; just ask VT

Last year Kagawa and Lewis only played STs and I believe Merriweather played very little except STs. These were three very good freshmen athletes chosen early in the season to be a regular on STs. A lot of "second teamers" played STs such as L Griffin, Hankins, Devine, Brigham, Fromayan, both Austins, A Marshall, and others. A Gardner, a walk-on DT, protected the punter as the deep middle blocker. We got good STs play from a lot of players who were not starters.

 

[danny daniel]

Last year Kagawa and Lewis only played STs and I believe Merriweather played very little except STs. These were three very good freshmen athletes chosen early in the season to be a regular on STs. A lot of "second teamers" played STs such as L Griffin, Hankins, Devine, Brigham, Fromayan, both Austins, A Marshall, and others. A Gardner, a walk-on DT, protected the punter as the deep middle blocker. We got good STs play from a lot of players who were not starters.

I forgot to mention Connors who blocked a kick and C Griffin who probably led STs in downfield tackles on kick coverage.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

Special teams need to be good too. I hear what you are saying, but once a KO goes against us for a TD, it will hurt. In general, I like RSing players but you have to play to win now.

Special teams will win you______________(fill in the blank) games in a given year.

 

[Goldisbest]

I would think that a coach on a hot seat would be less likely to redshirt a player, who could provide some immediate benefit.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I'm the last one to argue that ST aren't important. And that is why after the nightmare year which culminated in losing the game to AF almost entirely through ST, that CPJ got religion and started putting our best players onto the field for KO/punts and returns. So if a Fr is one of our best players, I'd expect him to be on ST.

I seem to remember someone listing the Fr who only played ST last year. Who were they in the last two years and what positions? (I know, nothing like facts to ruin a good discussion, but I really don't know.)

One last thing on skill positions: The long snapper is definitely a skill position. They can upset everything; just ask VT

Does anyone know if the philosophy changed between the current ST coach and the previous ST coach? The previous ST coach said, and I am quoting pretty exactly, "CPJ told me I can use anyone on the team for special teams that I need to; no one is hands off."

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Special teams will win you______________(fill in the blank) games in a given year.

There used to be a conventional answer to this question but back in his prime Frank Beamer doubled the anwer.

 

[danny daniel]

Does anyone know if the philosophy changed between the current ST coach and the previous ST coach? The previous ST coach said, and I am quoting pretty exactly, "CPJ told me I can use anyone on the team for special teams that I need to; no one is hands off."

I do not know, but it sure sounds like that is the case. Otherwise IMO one of our DEs, Freeman, Simmons, or Merriweather should have redshirted, especially with Whitehead in the mix.

 

[inGTwetrust]

Special teams will win you______________(fill in the blank) games in a given year.

Well, special teams won us the VT game and allowed us to go to OT vs UGA. I think that seems pretty important.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

We need to do whatever is necessary to WIN this year. There is not promise for next year. Who knows if we will lose guys to academics, injury, transfer or other? The best time to maximize your chances is always NOW. But, we should not burn a shirt for 1-2 appearances if at all possible.

 

[bke1984]

Vicious has been kinda quiet until that article.

If a guy is only going to play special teams and not contribute on the 2 deep to get experience, personally I'd rather him redshirt. Zach was actually a returner on special teams his T-Fr year, but I'd trade that year to have him as our BB this year.

Not sure about this. Special teams are a good way for young guys to get acclimated to the speed of college football. Plus it keeps offensive and defensive starters off the field during plays where there is a significantly higher chance of injury.

 

[iceeater1969]

Not sure about this. Special teams are a good way for young guys to get acclimated to the speed of college football. Plus it keeps offensive and defensive starters off the field during plays where there is a significantly higher chance of injury.

Plus give first team extra rest and coach up time.

Plus it sends message to player whose shirt is burned = we are serious about playing you so show us something on st.

 

[awbuzz]

That's why it should be second and third string...

 

[iceeater1969]

Burning a shirt can the obvious thing to do if the talent is clear at day 1 year 1

Usully not clear so team need and position yearly depth play a roll.

For example = imo we should try to have peak talent by end of 16. This would gove us best chance for a playoff run with jet.
Burned shirts should get st, then end of game , then situational playing time over next two years to be ready for playoff.

At dt we must promise playing time t o.j. some ready to play now talent. After this year we will have no rs junior, junior, rs soph in depth pipeline. Only the 2015 recruits. I say the dt freshman must play must this year.

 

[Techster]

Not sure about this. Special teams are a good way for young guys to get acclimated to the speed of college football. Plus it keeps offensive and defensive starters off the field during plays where there is a significantly higher chance of injury.

I'm not sure how you're getting "acclimated to the speed of football" when special teams doesn't simulate anything on offense or defense. Practicing 4 times a week and scrimmaging will do that better than special teams.

Say you're a WR...how does barreling down the field full speed simulate finding a soft zone for your QB in cover 2? If you're a LB, how does punt block duties simulate shadowing a TE down the seam on 3rd and long, while maintaining zone coverage?

Special teams is on the field around 5-8 times a game. Is it really worth an entire year of eligibility when there are other guys you recruited who could do the job. The teams that are the best on special teams have their starters them...Alabama, VT, Ohio State. Those coaches don't see a problem with starters or key 2 deep players on special teams, but somehow now it's a problem?

As I said earlier, I'd much rather have Zach Laskey at BB this year than what we got out of him his freshmen year.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

As I said earlier, I'd much rather have Zach Laskey at BB this year than what we got out of him his freshmen year.

This is true, but coaches don't have a crystal ball. Zach won the job at the time because he was the best at that position, at that time. Imo, you play the guy who gives you the best chance to win at that time.

If two guys are dead even, protect the shirt.

 

[Techster]

This is true, but coaches don't have a crystal ball. Zach won the job at the time because he was the best at that position, at that time. Imo, you play the guy who gives you the best chance to win at that time.

CPJ gets paid 3+million a year. Dude can afford a crystal ball!

 

[dressedcheeseside]

CPJ gets paid 3+million a year. Dude can afford a crystal ball!

SOL. (smiled out loud)

Btw, I used to be a "redshirt as many as possible" guy, but have come around to the idea of "win now then in 5 years do what you have to do to win now."