Quick poll on the pulse of the fanbase....

Have you lost faith in CPJ?


  • Total voters
    274

Ggee87

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I just wanted to say that this was a great thread. Most everybody was able to state their opinions in a very eloquent way. I voted No, largely due to this board and the things I have learned by listening and not talking too much. I too, was very down after last year. What I saw on the field from Vad the year before, didnt match what I saw last year. I was feeling that we were stuck with a QB, who didnt fit well, and wasnt going to take us where we want to go. It was definitely good for both parties that he transferred. I understand where both sides are coming from. On one hand we have past results of getting beat by the big 4 repeatedly, with no real skill position players that get you excited. On the other we have changes being made in multiple areas, that are causing an improvement in said areas. I think we are on the verge of something really good here soon. If we can build a little momentum this season, and win a portion of the fanbase back, CPJ will make big things happen. If it doesnt happen, im afraid that all the changes will be for naught. I love the way CPJ runs his program, and the only thing I would change, is how difficult it is for him to praise players. On and off the field. I see more scolding on the sidelines than I do high-fives or buttslaps. I think that really affects our recruiting in a negative way, especially with mommas. Not all recruits have parents that are like CPJ. I understand why he does things the way he does, but others may not. Other than that CPJ is just about everything you could ask for at The Institute. Heres to a kickass season, that builds momentum in recruiting, and gets us on a roll that nobody can stop.
 

Supersizethatorder-mutt

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I just wanted to say that this was a great thread. Most everybody was able to state their opinions in a very eloquent way. I voted No, largely due to this board and the things I have learned by listening and not talking too much. I too, was very down after last year. What I saw on the field from Vad the year before, didnt match what I saw last year. I was feeling that we were stuck with a QB, who didnt fit well, and wasnt going to take us where we want to go. It was definitely good for both parties that he transferred. I understand where both sides are coming from. On one hand we have past results of getting beat by the big 4 repeatedly, with no real skill position players that get you excited. On the other we have changes being made in multiple areas, that are causing an improvement in said areas. I think we are on the verge of something really good here soon. If we can build a little momentum this season, and win a portion of the fanbase back, CPJ will make big things happen. If it doesnt happen, im afraid that all the changes will be for naught. I love the way CPJ runs his program, and the only thing I would change, is how difficult it is for him to praise players. On and off the field. I see more scolding on the sidelines than I do high-fives or buttslaps. I think that really affects our recruiting in a negative way, especially with mommas. Not all recruits have parents that are like CPJ. I understand why he does things the way he does, but others may not. Other than that CPJ is just about everything you could ask for at The Institute. Heres to a kickass season, that builds momentum in recruiting, and gets us on a roll that nobody can stop.
Have you ever heard, or even heard of, a player, current or former, saying anything negative about the way Johnson treats them? I have not, and, in fact, have heard many praise him to the hilt. The fact that so many former players of his, keep coming back and standing on the sideline at games, IMO, speaks highly of their opinions of him. There are, and have been, other coaches who have gotten in the face of a player in a far worse manner than I have seen Johnson do, and yet I can't think of any players for any of those coaches saying anything negative either. Bobby Knight and Coach K come to mind.
 
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I love GT football/athletics. I will watch the jackets whether they go 0-12 or 12-0. With that being said... I feel the program got really stagnant from 2010 - 2013. I think Paul's non-schaluant demeanor had a rub off effect on the team and for several years now he comes off almost disinterested at times and our team plays that way a lot. I just didnt feel a lot of excitement and fire in a lot of our guys (outside of a handful).

This year has seemed a little different in that our young guys seem to have really bonded together and seemed fired up which has given me a little more hope in the direction of the program. We've finally had 2 decent recruiting classes and seem to be reeling in some talent. So maybe things are looking up again.


What is the opposite of nonchalant?
 

Northeast Stinger

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JT was on the team last season (as was Byerly)...and he was coming off a redshirt season. So if CPJ thought he had to re-invent his offense to make use of a QB, maybe it's more on CPJ than on Vad, don't you think? I think CPJ knew exactly what he had, and he also took the longview with Vad...take some lumps now, and it will pay off down the road. Vad dipped out early, and I don't blame CPJ for it, it just happens sometimes.

I just have a problem with people who want to put all the blame on Vad "not committing" (as DaBuzz refers to) when the coaching staff has full control of the situation. They make the call, not the player.

I think JT will be a very good player. That he stayed and Vad didn't also says a lot about JT.
I have seen several comments on other sites from people who claim to have been close to the situation who say he was already looking around for another school before the Clemson game. The anger from some is that he did not come clean with the coaching staff sooner than he did, essentially wasting time that JT could have been getting more reps. You can take this for what it is worth. I have no personal first hand knowledge but I know for a fact that this is what the people who are bitter about him are claiming.
 

Northeast Stinger

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I dropped off the CPJ bandwagon a while back, even though he was on my short list for the hire when we let Gailey go.
Our recriting difficulties are well known; no need to rehash them here. I thought Johnson's offense would help compensate, but it's added another recruiting obstacle instead.
And IMHO the TO is just not as much fun to watch as the Malzahn spread or other contemporary schemes, given all are operating at a similar level of perfromance.
You may be correct in your overall premise; I do not know. But there is one thing that is confusing to me about your statement. You say the TO is just not as much fun to watch as the Malzahn spread but in point of fact Tech rarely runs the triple option. Not to rehash what has probably been said on this site hundreds of times (I am relatively new here so I am going by conversations on other blogs) the triple option is just one play in Tech's offense. The most they ever run it is about 20% of the time. Against Wofford they did not run it one single time. Against Tulane they may have run it a few times but it was not the most used play by any means.
 

AlabamaBuzz

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You may be correct in your overall premise; I do not know. But there is one thing that is confusing to me about your statement. You say the TO is just not as much fun to watch as the Malzahn spread but in point of fact Tech rarely runs the triple option. Not to rehash what has probably been said on this site hundreds of times (I am relatively new here so I am going by conversations on other blogs) the triple option is just one play in Tech's offense. The most they ever run it is about 20% of the time. Against Wofford they did not run it one single time. Against Tulane they may have run it a few times but it was not the most used play by any means.

You are right. I enjoy our offense, but I think a lot of fans think the system (A backs, B back, etc.) is the triple option. The lineup is NOT the triple option. The triple option is a play where there are 3 options, and we do not run it near as much as people think. Actually, it is my favorite play. I do get bored sometimes with the rocket tosses, although when they are effective, I still love them.
 

danny daniel

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You may be correct in your overall premise; I do not know. But there is one thing that is confusing to me about your statement. You say the TO is just not as much fun to watch as the Malzahn spread but in point of fact Tech rarely runs the triple option. Not to rehash what has probably been said on this site hundreds of times (I am relatively new here so I am going by conversations on other blogs) the triple option is just one play in Tech's offense. The most they ever run it is about 20% of the time. Against Wofford they did not run it one single time. Against Tulane they may have run it a few times but it was not the most used play by any means.

I don't think its the TO3 that people don't like as much as the offense has no real sucess in passing for over 50% success on downs where it is obvious we have to pass. When we get in that situation (from penalties or bad plays) there is an inept feeling about the O scheme and it is very frustrating when other O schemes can convert and we cannot. I personally like the TO3 but get overly frustrated with our obvious passing downs, especially compared to what other offenses can do. This carries over to two minute drills and perhaps some OT situations where we are at a disadvantage..
 

dressedcheeseside

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I don't think its the TO3 that people don't like as much as the offense has no real sucess in passing for over 50% success on downs where it is obvious we have to pass. When we get in that situation (from penalties or bad plays) there is an inept feeling about the O scheme and it is very frustrating when other O schemes can convert and we cannot. I personally like the TO3 but get overly frustrated with our obvious passing downs, especially compared to what other offenses can do. This carries over to two minute drills and perhaps some OT situations where we are at a disadvantage..
Even though in 2013 we were pretty bad at passing conversions of 3rd and long (10+ yards to go) at 33%, we were pretty good at avoiding those situations. We were tied for 99th out of 125 teams for most 3rd and long situations (I guess that converts for tied for 26th in fewest). Me, I'd rather be good at avoiding 3rd and long than being good at converting it.

What is more telling is how we are in overall 3rd down conversion rate. In 2013, we ended up tied for 4th for best 3rd down conversion %. That's what I'm talking about. So far this year, we are tied for 2nd.

Also, another telling stat is scoring % in the red zone. Last year we finished tied for 13th at 90%. We just didn't have enough of those situations to win more games. That is mainly a product of our run-based scheme, but we could have done better with our possessions. We also could have benefited from better starting field position (can't find a stat for that, drats!) We seem to start every possession deep in our own end.

Here's to getting to the redzone more often this year.
 
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danny daniel

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Even though in 2013 we were pretty bad at passing conversions of 3rd and long (10+ yards to go) at 33%, we were pretty good at avoiding those situations. We were tied for 99th out of 125 teams for most 3rd and long situations (I guess that converts for tied for 26th in fewest). Me, I'd rather be good at avoiding 3rd and long than being good at converting it.

What is more telling is how we are in overall 3rd down conversion rate. In 2013, we ended up tied for 4th for best 3rd down conversion %. That's what I'm talking about. So far this year, we are tied for 2nd.

Also, another telling stat is scoring % in the red zone. Last year we finished tied for 13th at 90%. We just didn't have enough of those situations to win more games. That is mainly a product of our run-based scheme, but we could have done better with our possessions. We also could have benefited from better starting field position (can't find a stat for that, drats!) We seem to start every possession deep in our own end.

Here's to getting to the redzone more often this year.

Those are all good points and reasons why I like the O we run. I still get frustrated to the point that I would just like to see us run or QB scramble on third and long.
 

Techster

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I have seen several comments on other sites from people who claim to have been close to the situation who say he was already looking around for another school before the Clemson game. The anger from some is that he did not come clean with the coaching staff sooner than he did, essentially wasting time that JT could have been getting more reps. You can take this for what it is worth. I have no personal first hand knowledge but I know for a fact that this is what the people who are bitter about him are claiming.

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of the whole situation to be honest. Lots of "he said, she said, they said" in the whole thing. I know that he worked hard, and was always recruiting guys to go throw the ball and go to church. I'm not a religious person, so getting guys to go to church and prayer doesn't affect me like it may others...but to me it shows a person who wanted to involve teammates in a positive manner. Given a choice, I'd rather someone go to bible study and church rather than do something that gets you suspended or kicked off the team (like the rash of players that got booted during the offseason). One thing you could say about Vad is that he never represented GT in a bad light his whole time here. I'll leave it at that.
 

cyptomcat

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Isn't it a rule if you bet in a public forum the bet needs to be something ALL members of a messageboard get go enjoy? Either the spoils for one side, or the humiliation of the other.

I'm sure between all of us we can figure out something for the winner/loser that will entertain all of us! :)
thwg suggested winner picks other's avatar for a year, so I suppose you guys will benefit somewhat :)

If it's 1-1, it's a wash. I am confident it will be 2-0 in my favor though. :p
 

Northeast Stinger

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Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of the whole situation to be honest. Lots of "he said, she said, they said" in the whole thing. I know that he worked hard, and was always recruiting guys to go throw the ball and go to church. I'm not a religious person, so getting guys to go to church and prayer doesn't affect me like it may others...but to me it shows a person who wanted to involve teammates in a positive manner. Given a choice, I'd rather someone go to bible study and church rather than do something that gets you suspended or kicked off the team (like the rash of players that got booted during the offseason). One thing you could say about Vad is that he never represented GT in a bad light his whole time here. I'll leave it at that.
That's why the whole thing is so unsatisfying. I saw those same signs of commitment too. It made his statement upon leaving all the more puzzling when he said basically, "This offense was never really my thing." And then his own statements that he knew before the Ole Miss game that he was going to leave but had not told the coaches. Then to hear the "behind the scenes" talk that he actually had made up his mind before the Clemson game really makes one wonder. I have no need to trash the man. I wish him well. But it is clear to me that CPJ did not know the whole story and might have handled it differently had he known.
 

Northeast Stinger

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I don't think its the TO3 that people don't like as much as the offense has no real sucess in passing for over 50% success on downs where it is obvious we have to pass. When we get in that situation (from penalties or bad plays) there is an inept feeling about the O scheme and it is very frustrating when other O schemes can convert and we cannot. I personally like the TO3 but get overly frustrated with our obvious passing downs, especially compared to what other offenses can do. This carries over to two minute drills and perhaps some OT situations where we are at a disadvantage..
I hear you but defenders of the offense usually come back with two points. First, all teams have trouble with 3rd and long and the average percentage of success nationally is really, really low. Second, Tech has actually led the nation in third down conversion at various times over the last few years. The implication of that second point is would you rather have a team that is very successful converting on 3rd downs in general or would you rather be like other teams who are far less successful on 3rd downs overall but might have a percentage point or two greater effectiveness on third and 20? It is an interesting question to me because it contrasts our emotional response to the occasional 3rd and long that we do not seem to do well with and our rational response which figures that in terms of winning a game it is better to be converting 3rd downs in general at a much higher rate.
 

Ggee87

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Have you ever hearwg even heard of, a player, current or former, saying anything negative about the way Johnson treats them? I have not, and, in fact, have heard many praise him to the hilt. The fact that so many former players of his, keep coming back and standing on the sideline at games, IMO, speaks highly of their opinions of him. There are, and have been, other coaches who have gotten in the face of a player in a far worse manner than I have seen Johnson do, and yet I can't think of any players for any of those coaches saying anything negative either. Bobby Knight and Coach K come to mind.
I wasnt referring to players on the team, or former players. Im referring to what it looks like to potential recruits and their families. BEFORE they get to meet him and talk with him. It may turn them off to even considering GT in the first place. Lets be realistic... There arent alot of recruits who are just gungho about attending and playing for GT. Its just not the way it is anymore. So any way possible to shed our program in a positive light should be taken.
 

Northeast Stinger

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You are right. I enjoy our offense, but I think a lot of fans think the system (A backs, B back, etc.) is the triple option. The lineup is NOT the triple option. The triple option is a play where there are 3 options, and we do not run it near as much as people think. Actually, it is my favorite play. I do get bored sometimes with the rocket tosses, although when they are effective, I still love them.
Exactly. Tech lines up in the flex bone and sends an A-back in motion and people instantly think, "Here comes the triple option." CPJ gave an excellent chalk talk some time around 2008 where he showed how the formation allows you to run all the main play calls of all the other offenses that teams run. You can run power-I, spread, single back offense, run and gun and on and on. Each snap of the ball allows you to run a specific play out of several different play books. What CPJ does is call the play that appears to take the most advantage of what the defense is dialing up. Of course some of the options of what to run are limited by athletic level or ability to execute a more complicated play book. That is when CPJ tries to keep it simple.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I wasnt referring to players on the team, or former players. Im referring to what it looks like to potential recruits and their families. BEFORE they get to meet him and talk with him. It may turn them off to even considering GT in the first place. Lets be realistic... There arent alot of recruits who are just gungho about attending and playing for GT. Its just not the way it is anymore. So any way possible to shed our program in a positive light should be taken.
Everybody's "positive light" isn't the same. For guys who's positive light is a no-nonsense, straight-shooter who cares about you beyond football, then I'd say CPJ is the coach for you. For those who's positive light is what's the fastest, easier path to fame and glory and only cares about what you can do for him on the field, then he's not.
 

AE 87

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I don't think its the TO3 that people don't like as much as the offense has no real sucess in passing for over 50% success on downs where it is obvious we have to pass. When we get in that situation (from penalties or bad plays) there is an inept feeling about the O scheme and it is very frustrating when other O schemes can convert and we cannot. I personally like the TO3 but get overly frustrated with our obvious passing downs, especially compared to what other offenses can do. This carries over to two minute drills and perhaps some OT situations where we are at a disadvantage..

As @Northeast Stinger mentioned, 3rd and long is difficult for everyone. I did a quick look at some stats from two schools in 2013, GT and Washington State. I chose WSU because they were the #1 passing offense in yds/game for 2013.

For 3rd and 7+, Washington State was 45 of 84 passing, for 53.5%. However, they made a first down on only 34.5% of those passes. They are are also credited with 14 rushes, the long of which was 10 yds for a first down. However, for all those rushes they lost a total of 70 yds. In other words, many of those rushes were probably sacks, likely dropping their actual pass success below 50%. All in all, they made a 1st down 30.6% of 3rd and 7+.

GT made a 1st down 31.0% of 3rd and 7+. 2013 was a good year for us for that stat.
 

Ggee87

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Everybody's "positive light" isn't the same. For guys who's positive light is a no-nonsense, straight-shooter who cares about you beyond football, then I'd say CPJ is the coach for you. For those who's positive light is what's the fastest, easier path to fame and glory and only cares about what you can do for him on the field, then he's not.
Well in THIS day and age... Theres not alot of CPJ like parents out there. I believe in what CPJ does and is about. But you cant tell that without doing research. Players now a days love to have their egos stroked and told they have a chance at the NFL from day 1. Outsiders dont get the view that people in the know do. All most people see is his sideline demeanor and press conferences... which do not make him look like a coach MOST people would want to plaY for
 

Ggee87

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Also... its not reality that dictates things. Its perception. See the Ray Rice situation... or the Ferguson, Mizz case. Ray Rice would still be playing football if not for the publics view on the issue. The same for what happened in Mizz. Had the race war baiters not come in and made in a black/white issue, its a nonstory. Perception means a whole lot in this world. I just dont see how u can get a good perception of CPJ if you havent had the opportunity to chat with him or people in the know
 
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