Question about linemen

[Randy Carson]

I can think of a number of important characteristics of linemen:

• height
• weight
• strength
• quickness
• stamina
• skill

Here's my question: Assuming all other things to be equal, how important is weight? IOW, if you have two guys squaring off against each other (OL v DL), and one guy is 350 lbs and the other is 325 lbs, does the 350 guy have that much of an advantage over the 325 guy?

And my reason for asking is, if there aren't enough 5* 350 lb linemen to go around, are 325 lb guys really that much of a disadvantage? Cause we REALLY need some linemen.

 

[sgreer]

Strength and quickness seem to be the characteristics that separate the good from the great. I always thought that Tech would be attractive destination for some intelligent linemen across the country but we haven’t had a true difference maker since Shaq Mason.

 

[CuseJacket]

Wingspan/reach and frame are important as well. Those often get lost in the height/weight comparisons. The stats on the depth chart aren't even 50% of what's relevant when you add those factors to twitchiness, athleticism and other items listed in the OP.

 

[Bogey]

You look at Elko's early success at Duke and he mentions the one thing he went all-in on at the beginning: S&C. Collins got us so far behind with his S&C program for 4 years I feel confident our OL will be fine with another year under Key's S&C coach & program. Our players are not so bad as some opine.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Numbers. Easier to get 5 starters from 25 than ten.

 

[bobongo]

Numbers. Easier to get 5 starters from 25 than ten.

25 is a little extreme, but I agree with the concept of fudging on the typical numbers in favor of an extra couple of OL on the roster. That having been said, we're a lot better up front this year than last.
Pass blocking in particular is much better. Run blocking too, although the improvement isn't as pronounced. Obviously, we've still a ways to go.

 

[stinger 1957]

Clemson game proved there is a big difference in what we're doing there and what they are doing. Just not sure what the difference consist of.

 

[LongforDodd]

I can think of a number of important characteristics of linemen:

• height
• weight
• strength
• quickness
• stamina
• skill

Here's my question: Assuming all other things to be equal, how important is weight? IOW, if you have two guys squaring off against each other (OL v DL), and one guy is 350 lbs and the other is 325 lbs, does the 350 guy have that much of an advantage over the 325 guy?

And my reason for asking is, if there aren't enough 5* 350 lb linemen to go around, are 325 lb guys really that much of a disadvantage? Cause we REALLY need some linemen.

What we have seems to work about 50% of the time so far this year. It's the other 50% when times get real tough that we don't respond well to the challenge.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

A few of us on here could tell you about linemen in the dark ages. Bear Bryant seemed to prefer quickness over size for his offensive linemen. The theory is that if a play is well executed the lineman has to get to a spot and hold a block for a brief second and the running back is by before the defender recovers. Some of Tech’s best defensive linemen ever were sometimes outweighed by 30-35 pounds. Linemen have evolved and gotten bigger but even in sumo wrestling it is not the biggest that win but the fastest off the line.

So, as others have said, explosion and wing span seem to make up for having an extra 25 pounds. Some of the best defensive tackles are not very tall but have extremely powerful lower bodies and can carry a lot of extra weight without it slowing them down.

As to S&C, a good program can evaluate body type and determine if it’s possible to add good weight without slowing an athlete down. Not all 6’5” frames are equal. Body ratios make a difference. Some frames can add 40 pounds and some need to lose 10 pounds.

 

[stech81]

Some frames can add 40 pounds and some need to lose 10 pounds.

Guess I have the frame that its not easy to add 40 pounds, just need to get that 40 pounds from my stomach up to my chest.

 

[MWBATL]

Guess I have the frame that its not easy to add 40 pounds, just need to get that 40 pounds from my stomach up to my chest.

Try a man-bra for support.

 

[g0lftime]

A few of us on here could tell you about linemen in the dark ages. Bear Bryant seemed to prefer quickness over size for his offensive linemen. The theory is that if a play is well executed the lineman has to get to a spot and hold a block for a brief second and the running back is by before the defender recovers. Some of Tech’s best defensive linemen ever were sometimes outweighed by 30-35 pounds. Linemen have evolved and gotten bigger but even in sumo wrestling it is not the biggest that win but the fastest off the line.

So, as others have said, explosion and wing span seem to make up for having an extra 25 pounds. Some of the best defensive tackles are not very tall but have extremely powerful lower bodies and can carry a lot of extra weight without it slowing them down.

As to S&C, a good program can evaluate body type and determine if it’s possible to add good weight without slowing an athlete down. Not all 6’5” frames are equal. Body ratios make a difference. Some frames can add 40 pounds and some need to lose 10 pounds.

The younger brother of my best friend from HS played at University of Tennessee in 1970. He was the starting center and 6'-4" weighed 250 lbs. That was not considered underweight back then. Good athlete in multiple sports including golf and tennis. He now weighs 185 and worked hard to get down to that.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

The younger brother of my best friend from HS played at University of Tennessee in 1970. He was the starting center and 6'-4" weighed 250 lbs. That was not considered underweight back then. Good athlete in multiple sports including golf and tennis. He now weighs 185 and worked hard to get down to that.

If I recall in the late 60s Tech was one of those teams that still had a “quick” side and a “strong” side on the offensive line. The quick side could have linemen as light as 215 matched on the other side of the center with strong side linemen who averaged 30 pounds heavier.

But, yeah, in 1970 a 250 pound lineman was considered decent sized.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I can think of a number of important characteristics of linemen:

• height
• weight
• strength
• quickness
• stamina
• skill

Here's my question: Assuming all other things to be equal, how important is weight? IOW, if you have two guys squaring off against each other (OL v DL), and one guy is 350 lbs and the other is 325 lbs, does the 350 guy have that much of an advantage over the 325 guy?

And my reason for asking is, if there aren't enough 5* 350 lb linemen to go around, are 325 lb guys really that much of a disadvantage? Cause we REALLY need some linemen.

It would seem that the bigger the better or is it? Parker Braun was an All ACC lineman for Coach Johnson. I once spent half the game on a replay watching just him as much as possible. It was astonishing how quick that guy was at a mere 285 pounds. The ball would be snapped and by the time the quarterback had it in his hands Parker would be in someone's grill just that fast. The only other true difference maker that I can remember was Shaq who was just too damn smart and good at what he did. He had UGA's opposing linemen on their heels to the point that the UGA announcers were talking about him.

Coach Dodd had a long string of All American and All SEC linemen going all the way back to before 1950. Great centers at Tech were practically a given. In fact, Dodd's last two All Americans were both centers: Bill Curry in 1964 and Jim Breland in 1966.

 

[LT 1967]

I can think of a number of important characteristics of linemen:

• height
• weight
• strength
• quickness
• stamina
• skill

Here's my question: Assuming all other things to be equal, how important is weight? IOW, if you have two guys squaring off against each other (OL v DL), and one guy is 350 lbs and the other is 325 lbs, does the 350 guy have that much of an advantage over the 325 guy?

And my reason for asking is, if there aren't enough 5* 350 lb linemen to go around, are 325 lb guys really that much of a disadvantage? Cause we REALLY need some linemen.

Interesting question since we have watched Georgia's and Clemson's Defensive linemen pore through our offensive line for several years at this point. I always say that we are as big as they are in most cases, so what is the problem. I certainly agree that the factors you show are where the answers lie. A couple of years ago, I purchased a copy of Phil Savage's book entitled "4th and Goal Everyday". The book reviews the inter workings of the Alabama football program. I was interested in the recruiting factors. According to Phil, Nick Saban believes it has to do with the "BUBBLE" as far as linemen and linebackers go.

See the attached page from Phil's book which refers to the characteristics of large linemen, Offensive, Defensive and Linebackers.

I do see the characteristic discussed in many of the better linemen I see on teams like Clemson, Alabama, and UGA.

 

[stinger78]

Wingspan/reach and frame are important as well. Those often get lost in the height/weight comparisons. The stats on the depth chart aren't even 50% of what's relevant when you add those factors to twitchiness, athleticism and other items listed in the OP.

This^. Arm length and strength, both upper body and lower body, are more important than pure weight. A 300 lb. 6'4" OG with a 34-inch+ arm length, who can dead lift over 500 lbs. and bench 225 lbs. at or over about 30x, has most all the physical tools to do the job. After that, it's mostly technique and intelligence. Technique can be coached, intelligence cannot.

 

[Root4GT]

It would seem that the bigger the better or is it? Parker Braun was an All ACC lineman for Coach Johnson. I once spent half the game on a replay watching just him as much as possible. It was astonishing how quick that guy was at a mere 285 pounds. The ball would be snapped and by the time the quarterback had it in his hands Parker would be in someone's grill just that fast. The only other true difference maker that I can remember was Shaq who was just too damn smart and good at what he did. He had UGA's opposing linemen on their heels to the point that the UGA announcers were talking about him.

Coach Dodd had a long string of All American and All SEC linemen going all the way back to before 1950. Great centers at Tech were practically a given. In fact, Dodd's last two All Americans were both centers: Bill Curry in 1964 and Jim Breland in 1966.

Braun didn't work out nearly as well at Texas after he transferred there. He was a great fit for CJP's offense.

 

[yeti92]

Braun didn't work out nearly as well at Texas after he transferred there. He was a great fit for CJP's offense.

Is there something about Paul Johnson that you always put his initial backwards/ confuse him with Josh Pastner?

 

[4shotB]

Interesting question since we have watched Georgia's and Clemson's Defensive linemen pore through our offensive line for several years at this point. I always say that we are as big as they are in most cases, so what is the problem. I certainly agree that the factors you show are where the answers lie. A couple of years ago, I purchased a copy of Phil Savage's book entitled "4th and Goal Everyday". The book reviews the inter workings of the Alabama football program. I was interested in the recruiting factors. According to Phil, Nick Saban believes it has to do with the "BUBBLE" as far as linemen and linebackers go.

See the attached page from Phil's book which refers to the characteristics of large linemen, Offensive, Defensive and Linebackers.

I do see the characteristic discussed in many of the better linemen I see on teams like Clemson, Alabama, and UGA.

This is a great post and it undersores a big frustration in my mind. Bama doesn't randomly recruit people. They have a process for that. It's not a random crap shoot like most other schools go through. (Yes. they can be a bit more selective buit it doesn't exclude the fact that have a meaningful process...not all of their guys are 5 or even 4 star recruits).

Why do we let a school like this ( and yeah, I do know about their tradition, fan base, etc.) beat us in making this a science instead of an art? You would think, given the base and resources that we have in management, data, statistics, etc. that we would be on the cutting edge of this stuff instead of way back in the pack. Someone (JBatt?) has to be smart enough to leverage the resources we have at our disposal. By this I mean intellectual capital as opposed to just plain financial capital. Although that is helpful too.

 

[Root4GT]

Is there something about Paul Johnson that you always put his initial backwards/ confuse him with Josh Pastner?

Dyslexic