Quaterback Development

Eric

Retired Co-Founder
Staff member
Messages
12,734
Nesbitt was not a natural in this offense by any means...what he was is tough and the guy had more will than anyone trying to tackle him. If it was third or fourth and short Nesbitt had the attitude that nobody was going to stop him from getting the first down...and he was right.

Nesbitt was a tough, mean player that simply wanted to win more than anything and would do whatever it took to make that happen. We need more players like that.
 

OldJacketFan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,348
Location
Nashville, TN
Nesbitt was not a natural in this offense by any means...what he was is tough and the guy had more will than anyone trying to tackle him. If it was third or fourth and short Nesbitt had the attitude that nobody was going to stop him from getting the first down...and he was right.

Nesbitt was a tough, mean player that simply wanted to win more than anything and would do whatever it took to make that happen. We need more players like that.

I absolutely agree! VL has to decide where he wants to be as a QB!
 

CrackerJacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
351
Location
Corpus Christi, TX
OJF, I'm not an Atlanta-area guy, so I don't see spring games. My 2008 observations were limited to what I could see on TV and attending the FSU game. I agree JN is built better to tough out the tough 3rd down yardage, and I think he was better suited overall to this offense than VL is. This is by no means a diss of VL; I think he'd shine in a different offensive set.
 

Midlands Jacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
127
Comparing first year stats isn't fair to Nesbit. JN had one spring and a fall camp to get ready to play. VL is starting his third year in the offense. If Nesbit had two years to prep for the offense before he was asked to start, I believe he would have put video game numbers. Vad Lee is in the wrong offense for his skill set. If Johnson doesn't tweek the offense more towards what Vad does well then we will be having this same conversation this time next year.
 

OldJacketFan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,348
Location
Nashville, TN
Comparing first year stats isn't fair to Nesbit. JN had one spring and a fall camp to get ready to play. VL is starting his third year in the offense. If Nesbit had two years to prep for the offense before he was asked to start, I believe he would have put video game numbers. Vad Lee is in the wrong offense for his skill set. If Johnson doesn't tweek the offense more towards what Vad does well then we will be having this same conversation this time next year.

Those numbers were for 1st yr as a starter.

Perhaps a better comparison would be VL 1st year numbers versus JNs numbers as a 1st year player.

JN 2007 53 carries for 339 yards 0 TDs 5 of 13 passing 93 yards 1 td 2 ints
VL 2012 96 carries for 544 yards 9 TDs 27 of 56 passing 596 yards 4 TDs 3 ints

My point is, all of CPJs QBs including Tevin made tremendous strides between the 1st and 2nd years. Vad's ahead of the curve simply because he's been in the program for 3 years.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
One of the most worrisome aspects of the way CPJ develops QB's is the way he gets playing time and experience for backups.
Last year, Vad got limited playing time in many games and it certainly hurt us this year when he took over as the starting QB.

This year, Justin got very limited playing time. A perfect example was the bowl game...bringing him in for 1 series...a series that began inside our 10 yard line. I suspect they had planned to bring him in for the nth series and when it began, they just brought him in...regardless of where on the field the ball was....which makes no sense to me.

If Justin does end up having to be "the guy" next year, then we are going to have a situation almost identical to the one we began with this year. A new starting QB with very limited snaps under his belt in game time.
 

ATL1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,377
Here's the thing Vad has been in the program for 3 years, and his mechanics are still poor. His timing is poor. His reads are poor. Now think about his contemporaries Johnny and Teddy it just doesn't make since.

I watched Vad when working out with Whitfield he has the talent and was invited to participate as a counselor among them, why Im I not seeing that on the field?
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,487
JN ran the option, midlines (beastly in those) and our run game in general far better than VL has. Vad is unquestionably a better passer. Nesbit ran the offense better overall though and managed the most important, the run game (our supposed bread and butter), far better.
If the light doesn't come on for Vad in the run game we have to give JT his shot at running it.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,487
This may be unfair and is only an opinion I've come to from reading snippets in articles on Vad...but I believe passing is more important to him than the run game in our scheme. He won't be successful if he doesn't buy into mastering the run game.
 

DvilleJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,422
JN refused to lose and had confidence in his ability. It took him a few games in the system and he believed in it. Lee lacks the confidence and just looks uncomfortable as soon as he faces some adversity. He shows a lot of emotion which can be a bad thing. Tevin always had a smile on his face even after a bad play. It would drive me mad like he didnt care or something. He just kept his emotions in check.
 

John

Peacekeeper
Staff member
Messages
2,174
Here's the thing Vad has been in the program for 3 years, and his mechanics are still poor. His timing is poor. His reads are poor. Now think about his contemporaries Johnny and Teddy it just doesn't make since.
Perhaps Johnny and Teddy are exceptions and not the rule? I don't disagree at all that our QBs (especially Vad) have not developed as quick as I personally hoped and expected but then again if I try to think back to what made me set that expectation, I really can't think of anything. Now, don't get me wrong, I still expect that Vad will make a pretty big leap during his RS JR season if he keeps working at it but I don't have the expectation that every young QB for every school is going to make a splash and become Heisman contenders.

I watched Vad when working out with Whitfield he has the talent and was invited to participate as a counselor among them, why Im I not seeing that on the field?
Anyone know what the criteria for the invitation was? I was under the impression Vad was just in contact with the right people. At that time, Vad hadn't started a single game.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
Anyone know what the criteria for the invitation was? I was under the impression Vad was just in contact with the right people. At that time, Vad hadn't started a single game.

Vad has been going to Whitfield for tutelage since just after his senior season of HS. I saw an interview with Whitfield where he says he thinks VL has everything it takes to be one of the top 10 QB's in the country. And perhaps he does...but not in this offense, I don't think.
 

CuseJacket

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
14,595
Vad has been going to Whitfield for tutelage since just after his senior season of HS. I saw an interview with Whitfield where he says he thinks VL has everything it takes to be one of the top 10 QB's in the country. And perhaps he does...but not in this offense, I don't think.

Unless Whitfield allows QBs to go full contact 11 on 11, it doesn't mean much to me. We've all seen Vad throw pretty balls in practice and when given time in games.

We have yet to see great pocket presence. It doesn't make sense to back pedal when you're already in the shotgun as you're allowing the DE to just run straight line up the field for a sack or hurry. We saw this against Ole Miss. No OL can protect a QB that way. Unfortunately I'm not in the know enough to know whether this is something CPJ or CBC have gone over with Vad in practice or when watching film.

The one thing I had to remind myself this year is that Vad was not recruited to play QB in many offenses. If he was a top 10 shotgun spread option QB, let alone top 10 overall QB, coming out of HS then we would have been recruited by the likes of Oregon, Ohio State, wherever Urban Meyer was, etc. That doesn't mean Vad isn't a good QB now, but a large part of the reason folks are down on him and QB development in general was a failure to meet expectations that were probably unwarranted.
 

stylee

Ramblin' Wreck
Featured Member
Messages
603
I am not sure Vad "shines" in a pass-heavier offense.

He threw at a pretty big clip under Tevin's % last year. His passing yards-per-attempt was below Tevin's last year. He has trouble completing the Smoke route.

We can say "well, that's because he's not being developed as a throwing QB!" but that misses the mark because we can compare his passing to other CPJ QBs. If he were truly a natural passer whose abilities were being suppressed by our coaching staff, we could expect to see more flashes of brilliance from him in the passing game.

The problem isn't in his arm, which is pretty strong and decently accurate. It's that he lacks the ability to read defenses consistently and loses his composure throwing the ball when rattled.

If he transferred, he's not going to turn into Dan Marino in some other offense.

I like the guy a lot and certainly do think we should focus on his strengths.
However, I think a lot of people drastically over estimate those strengths. He's a fast guy who became really unaggresive running the ball this year. He's got a good arm but has consistency issues with his throws at all ranges and doesn't read secondaries great right now.


He can get better and shine. But that's who he is right now
 

kg01

Get-Bak! Coach
Featured Member
Messages
11,070
Location
Atlanta
I am not sure Vad "shines" in a pass-heavier offense.

He threw at a pretty big clip under Tevin's % last year. His passing yards-per-attempt was below Tevin's last year. He has trouble completing the Smoke route.

We can say "well, that's because he's not being developed as a throwing QB!" but that misses the mark because we can compare his passing to other CPJ QBs. If he were truly a natural passer whose abilities were being suppressed by our coaching staff, we could expect to see more flashes of brilliance from him in the passing game.

The problem isn't in his arm, which is pretty strong and decently accurate. It's that he lacks the ability to read defenses consistently and loses his composure throwing the ball when rattled.

If he transferred, he's not going to turn into Dan Marino in some other offense.

I like the guy a lot and certainly do think we should focus on his strengths.
However, I think a lot of people drastically over estimate those strengths. He's a fast guy who became really unaggresive running the ball this year. He's got a good arm but has consistency issues with his throws at all ranges and doesn't read secondaries great right now.


He can get better and shine. But that's who he is right now

Agree with just about all you said especially regarding his lack of aggressiveness in the run game. Honestly, and this'll sound kinda dumb but I'll go ahead and toss it out there, I always thought that big hit he took at the end of the UNC game seemed to mark the beginning of his timid running.

Now clearly the real culprit was probably some nagging injury towards the beginning of the season, but that play stuck out in my mind.

Anyway, hope he gets some tutelage on his mechanics/footwork that help translate to better play next season.
 

DvilleJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,422
My dad always says Vad never steps up in the pocket when the line is collapsing. He ends up making a wild throw or takes off.
 

GTRX7

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,428
Location
Atlanta
I am not sure Vad "shines" in a pass-heavier offense.

He threw at a pretty big clip under Tevin's % last year. His passing yards-per-attempt was below Tevin's last year. He has trouble completing the Smoke route.

We can say "well, that's because he's not being developed as a throwing QB!" but that misses the mark because we can compare his passing to other CPJ QBs. If he were truly a natural passer whose abilities were being suppressed by our coaching staff, we could expect to see more flashes of brilliance from him in the passing game.

The problem isn't in his arm, which is pretty strong and decently accurate. It's that he lacks the ability to read defenses consistently and loses his composure throwing the ball when rattled.

If he transferred, he's not going to turn into Dan Marino in some other offense.

I like the guy a lot and certainly do think we should focus on his strengths.
However, I think a lot of people drastically over estimate those strengths. He's a fast guy who became really unaggresive running the ball this year. He's got a good arm but has consistency issues with his throws at all ranges and doesn't read secondaries great right now.


He can get better and shine. But that's who he is right now

That pretty much hits the nail on the head for me as well. Good post. I sure hope we see a big jump next year from this. However, if not, I think we may need to consider gambling on a guy like Thomas.

I hate just calling for the backup every time a team struggles, and I actually believe we would have been worse this year had JT started (just as I thought we would have been worse last year had Vad started). However, JT possess a lot of the qualities that Vad seems to lack. He is very aggressive and always looking to make things happen. In fact, to a fault sometimes. He ended up making a bunch of risky pitches when it was all said and done. However, I would take that aggression and the mistakes that come with it over another year of tentative play. Would also be great to get JT in the open field sometimes :)
 

DvilleJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,422
I hate it for the guy because before the season began we had made him out to be the next Vince Young. Talking about his college career not pro one! Johnson constantly said on the radio shows Lee had been talked up to much by the fan base and he didnt have the experience. I just felt by end of the season Lee would have progressed a little more than he did. He is still thinking to much and you can't do that in this offense.
 
Messages
154
Here's the thing Vad has been in the program for 3 years, and his mechanics are still poor. His timing is poor. His reads are poor. Now think about his contemporaries Johnny and Teddy it just doesn't make since.

I watched Vad when working out with Whitfield he has the talent and was invited to participate as a counselor among them, why Im I not seeing that on the field?

Because at those camps, they wear shorts & tee shirts and there's no hitting.

Vad just don't like hitting, maybe it goes back to playing his HS FB in NC, had he played HS FB in Texas, GA., Fla., La., then he might be a tougher more physical player.
 
Top