Punting Issues

[leatherneckjacket]

Wow, looking at that again is painful. I don't think you can blame the first on the kicker - even 1/2 yard shorter step wouldn't have mattered. Blocker was entirely untouched. T. McGuez didn't get a finger on him and backer was on another blocker.

I disagree. The defender covers about 15 yards in three seconds. If Shanahan takes a half second less to punt the ball, the defender is 3-5 yards away and the punt is not blocked.

 

[ibeattetris]

How the heck did we win five games?!?

Broken clock is right twice a day?

Key has a lot of work ahead of him. I assume a lot of things will be fixed by the team finally having a head football coach.

 

[yeti92]

He gave up a lot of return yards including a TD and fumbled a snap. He was still a bad punter on a bad punt unit.

Shanahan gave up a TD? The other 10 guys on the field just get a free pass on not doing their jobs and Shanahan gets the blame?

 

[Root4GT]

Shanahan gave up a TD? The other 10 guys on the field just get a free pass on not doing their jobs and Shanahan gets the blame?

Read carefully, it helps. To quote myself - "He was still a bad punter on a bad punt unit."

 

[Dustman]

Shanahan gave up a TD? The other 10 guys on the field just get a free pass on not doing their jobs and Shanahan gets the blame?

Just asking, not arguing, but it seemed to be lack of situational awareness on his part. They set up for return and rushed nobody. He had all day to kick it, but instead hurried a line drive kick.

So my question is, should the kicker be able to recognize that? Or is his job just to focus on the ball and kick it?

I thought at the time that he could have run for a first down.

 

[bobongo]

Just asking, not arguing, but it seemed to be lack of situational awareness on his part. They set up for return and rushed nobody. He had all day to kick it, but instead hurried a line drive kick.

So my question is, should the kicker be able to recognize that? Or is his job just to focus on the ball and kick it?

I thought at the time that he could have run for a first down.

I think after those first blocks early in the season, Shanahan was concentrating on simply getting the ball out of there and not getting any more blocked, and I don't blame him. The thing we have to keep in mind is that he has talent, but he grew up a rugby/soccer player and has to be COACHED. Our special teams coaching has got to get better next year. I put most of our punt team problems on that. Not getting a full 15 yards back, not getting any blocking early in the year, taking too long and taking too many steps, the poor coverage - these are all coaching problems that have to be addressed. Semore made some improvements but not enough. We need better coaching of special teams. Hopefully, Semore will concentrate on linebackers this year and Brent will fix this problem by finding us a new ST coach.

 

[ibeattetris]

Rk​

Team

Rec​

FBS​

STR​

KRE​

Rk​

KE​

Rk​

PRE​

Rk​

PE​

Rk​

FGE​

Rk​

OFG​

Rk​

OFP​

Rk​

DFP​

Rk​

NFP​

Rk​

121​

Temple​

3-9​

2-9​

-.65​

-.05​

123​

-.19​

125​

-.25​

122​

.13​

67​

.55​

20​

.10​

22​

73.8​

128​

67.2​

122​

-6.5​

127​

122​

Rice​

5-7​

4-7​

-.69​

.01​

83​

-.05​

87​

-.14​

72​

-.12​

127​

-.08​

95​

-.35​

85​

71.7​

95​

67.0​

125​

-4.8​

121​

123​

Connecticut​

6-6​

5-6​

-.74​

-.04​

116​

-.08​

103​

-.15​

75​

-.16​

129​

.31​

44​

-.09​

47​

69.5​

39​

69.3​

100​

-.2​

70​

124​

Charlotte​

3-9​

3-8​

-.76​

.02​

68​

-.07​

94​

-.13​

67​

.03​

101​

-.67​

131​

.13​

17​

72.3​

107​

70.7​

69​

-1.6​

91​

125​

Georgia Tech​

5-7​

4-7​

-.77​

.03​

58​

.07​

5​

-.23​

114​

-.39​

131​

.09​

76​

-.12​

52​

74.1​

130​

67.2​

123​

-6.9​

129​

126​

Tulsa​

5-7​

4-7​

-.89​

-.07​

130​

-.08​

105​

-.25​

120​

.00​

112​

.07​

81​

-.20​

66​

71.7​

93​

69.4​

98​

-2.4​

103​

127​

Iowa State​

4-8​

3-8​

-.89​

-.07​

131​

-.02​

73​

-.17​

93​

.06​

92​

-.59​

128​

-.17​

61​

71.5​

88​

69.9​

89​

-1.6​

90​

128​

LSU​

9-4​

8-4​

-.90​

-.05​

124​

-.07​

92​

-.43​

131​

.21​

29​

-.09​

98​

-.24​

74​

73.6​

127​

70.0​

88​

-3.7​

117​

129​

Boston College​

3-9​

2-9​

-.95​

-.01​

91​

-.19​

126​

-.22​

112​

.19​

41​

-.49​

125​

-.47​

102​

73.1​

120​

65.3​

130​

-7.7​

131​

130​

UL Monroe​

4-8​

3-8​

-1.02​

-.06​

128​

-.28​

130​

.02​

17​

-.27​

130​

.59​

17​

-.43​

97​

72.3​

110​

67.4​

120​

-5.0​

122​

131​

San Jose State​

7-4​

6-4​

-1.23​

-.03​

108​

-.27​

129​

-.11​

54​

-.08​

119​

-.14​

106​

-.45​

100​

69.2​

33​

72.4​

25​

3.2​

21​

Here is the FEI special teams data
PRE is punt return efficiency, this was another unit we were poor at.

PE is punt efficiency and as I expressed before, we were 131st worst.

OFP: Field position is measured as the average distance from starting field position to end zone on offensive drives, so in general our defense was not setting up our offense with short fields (average starting field position 26 yardline).

DFP: defensive field position was 33 yard line and was *drastically* influenced by how exception our kickoff efficiency was (rank 5!), and it was still at the bottom.

 

[DeepSnap]

From back when dinosaurs roamed the earth....

Punters stood 14.5 yards behind the line of scrimmage & at most used two steps. YeOldeDeepSnap averaged .45-.5 seconds on the snap & we only had one blocked per season - always off an untouched corner. If snap-to-thunk is 1.5 seconds or less with no whiff/lookout blocks, no way it gets blocked, especially with the current snapper-friendly rules.

Line drive punts usually come back faster than they go out. In '71 we had a P(itcher)-turned-P(unter), a three stepper, who could hit 'em 70 yards, but his punts never got more than 10 feet off the ground, even in practice. Future CocaCola Intl VP Karl "PeeWee" Barnes used to give us fits in practice during Specialty Period running them back vs us. The coverage team doesn't stand a chance. In '71 we made USCe DB Dickie Harris into an All-American when he blocked a punt off the corner & also ran a line drive punt back for a TD. Coupla weeks later vs Army, same punter drops a ball that hits him square in the hands at his waist - punt blocked.

Yes, punt returns for TDs can indeed be on the punter. Hang time really does mean something - it's why you rarely see many punts returned anymore (even in the NFL) 'cept by our opponents.

I'm sure Shanahan is a good kid, but just like what happened with our PKs who couldn't perform in front of eyeballs at BDS@HGF, if he can't be coached or adjust, maybe he needs to hit the portal. Merry Christmas!

 

[John]

I really want to see an increase in the net punting average.

I'd personally prefer no need to punt.

 

[alagold]

After Key took over, Shanahan averaged 43.1 yards a kick with no blocks.

The problem is the long flat punts and the poor coverage so you have runbacks. so you have poor NET avg.I still don't see why we don't have a 35 yd HIGH-arc punter for pin-down times at goal.Surely weaker legs can do this. I'll bet there are guys in the DORMs that have done that in hi school..

 

[bobongo]

The problem is the long flat punts and the poor coverage so you have runbacks. so you have poor NET avg.I still don't see why we don't have a 35 yd HIGH-arc punter for pin-down times at goal.Surely weaker legs can do this. I'll bet there are guys in the DORMs that have done that in hi school..

Or a coffin-corner specialist. Now there's a lost art.

 

[yeti92]

Read carefully, it helps. To quote myself - "He was still a bad punter on a bad punt unit."

I read just fine, you said he gave up a TD. You are blaming him for the TD being scored.

 

[yeti92]

Just asking, not arguing, but it seemed to be lack of situational awareness on his part. They set up for return and rushed nobody. He had all day to kick it, but instead hurried a line drive kick.

So my question is, should the kicker be able to recognize that? Or is his job just to focus on the ball and kick it?

I thought at the time that he could have run for a first down.

Unless he's been told to consider faking it, I would say no, he needs to focus entirely on catching the snap and making sure his foot and the ball make solid contact, not trying to read the defense or react to what they are/might be doing. Dabo had a punter call his own number a few years ago - he got his *** chewed out on national television.

 

[RonJohn]

Unless he's been told to consider faking it, I would say no, he needs to focus entirely on catching the snap and making sure his foot and the ball make solid contact, not trying to read the defense or react to what they are/might be doing. Dabo had a punter call his own number a few years ago - he got his *** chewed out on national television.

On the straight up punts, faking shouldn't be considered. However, since he can rugby punt in either direction, it seems like that is something that should be considered frequently. If he and the blockers start out in one direction and there is nobody on that side.....

 

[roadkill]

From back when dinosaurs roamed the earth....

Punters stood 14.5 yards behind the line of scrimmage & at most used two steps. YeOldeDeepSnap averaged .45-.5 seconds on the snap & we only had one blocked per season - always off an untouched corner. If snap-to-thunk is 1.5 seconds or less with no whiff/lookout blocks, no way it gets blocked, especially with the current snapper-friendly rules.

Line drive punts usually come back faster than they go out. In '71 we had a P(itcher)-turned-P(unter), a three stepper, who could hit 'em 70 yards, but his punts never got more than 10 feet off the ground, even in practice. Future CocaCola Intl VP Karl "PeeWee" Barnes used to give us fits in practice during Specialty Period running them back vs us. The coverage team doesn't stand a chance. In '71 we made USCe DB Dickie Harris into an All-American when he blocked a punt off the corner & also ran a line drive punt back for a TD. Coupla weeks later vs Army, same punter drops a ball that hits him square in the hands at his waist - punt blocked.

Yes, punt returns for TDs can indeed be on the punter. Hang time really does mean something - it's why you rarely see many punts returned anymore (even in the NFL) 'cept by our opponents.

I'm sure Shanahan is a good kid, but just like what happened with our PKs who couldn't perform in front of eyeballs at BDS@HGF, if he can't be coached or adjust, maybe he needs to hit the portal. Merry Christmas!

I was never a punt specialist or coached on it, but back in my “playing” days, I was a natural two-step punter. I don’t quite understand the advantage of the three-step process. Is it more momentum? Because it almost seems unnatural and obviously is riskier given the extra time it takes as well as the distance you cover before getting the ball off. Can anyone enlighten me on this?

 

[Dustman]

Unless he's been told to consider faking it, I would say no, he needs to focus entirely on catching the snap and making sure his foot and the ball make solid contact, not trying to read the defense or react to what they are/might be doing. Dabo had a punter call his own number a few years ago - he got his *** chewed out on national television.

Yes, I didn’t mean to imply he should have taken off running, just wondered if the punter is expected to at least sense if a rush is coming. A lot of that is based on circumstances. When you’re in the end zone, there’s no time to think about anything. But on this kick, he rushed it when he didn’t need to.

 

[DeepSnap]

I was never a punt specialist or coached on it, but back in my “playing” days, I was a natural two-step punter. I don’t quite understand the advantage of the three-step process. Is it more momentum? Because it almost seems unnatural and obviously is riskier given the extra time it takes as well as the distance you cover before getting the ball off. Can anyone enlighten me on this?

3 steps = bad playground habit

For a righty...
L-R-L-kick vs R-L-kick .....

No one has ever coached 'em up...... they think it's more momentum & a longer kick. It is IF you get it off, but you're ~5 feet closer to the LOS with that extra stride.

Coaching, coaching, coaching.

 

[Techastrophe]

Iirc we had a pretty decent place-kicker and punter when ** was hired and they both left the team in his first season. Reportedly over being told they had to keep earning the job in practice. Who knows. But it seems like any momentum from Butker and Harvin days left with them.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Iirc we had a pretty decent place-kicker and punter when ** was hired and they both left the team in his first season. Reportedly over being told they had to keep earning the job in practice. Who knows. But it seems like any momentum from Butker and Harvin days left with them.

The current punter is the one who replaced Harvin, who finished his career under CGC.

You're thinking of the PK.

 

[RonJohn]

Iirc we had a pretty decent place-kicker and punter when ** was hired and they both left the team in his first season. Reportedly over being told they had to keep earning the job in practice. Who knows. But it seems like any momentum from Butker and Harvin days left with them.

@Augusta_Jacket responded about the punter. I got to the field early for most home games that year and watched the kickers/punters warm up. The kicker that you are talking about was having significant issues kicking the ball during warm ups. I don't know if there was an issue with an injury, a mental issue or what, but he didn't look good.

I have plenty of gripes about TFG. However, not using that kicker that year isn't one of them. Maybe TFG got into his head and gave him the yips, but I don't know anything about that.