Punting Issues

[wrmathis]

We had 4 blocked punts in the first 4 games.

think hes talking about blockers immediately in front of the punter. not number of blocked punts

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

think hes talking about blockers immediately in front of the punter. not number of blocked punts

Gotcha. That makes more sense.

FWIW, many teams utilize a two blocker formation. We were just a poorly coached team.

 

[danny daniel]

He takes a lot of heat but he averaged 43.5 over 73 punts which seems pretty good to me.

After Key took over, Shanahan averaged 43.1 yards a kick with no blocks.

After Key took over, Shanahan averaged 43.1 yards a kick with no blocks.

Unfortunately there were too many line drive kicks resulting in too much run back yardage and too few kicks downed inside the 10. We also made some personnel changes to block, resulting in poorer kick coverage, as the punt time from snap to kick is longer than desired. Time for a major upgrade in punting overall including a punter that puts a lot of air under the ball..

 

[bobongo]

I really want to see an increase in the net punting average.

He had an excellent punt against Ugag that should have been downed at the one but was mishandled and ended up in the end zone. I know that's just one punt, but it was in his final game of the season. Maybe he's getting better.

 

[ibeattetris]

He takes a lot of heat but he averaged 43.5 over 73 punts which seems pretty good to me.

It’s not just average punt. We were the 131st out of 131 teams in net punting average at 30.7. That isn’t all on the kicker, but he didn’t help out his coverage men much either with high kicks.

 

[yeti92]

He had an excellent punt against Ugag that should have been downed at the one but was mishandled and ended up in the end zone. I know that's just one punt, but it was in his final game of the season. Maybe he's getting better.

Yea our inability, in multiple games, to down punts inside the 10 when the ball was put there was frustating, it was like we barely knew that was a thing you could do.

 

[iceeater1969]

It can’t be all bad blocking, I've never seen anyone get their kicks blocked as much as this kid. Also, Multiple times when a short punt was needed he kicked it out the back of the endzone

Collins - said path to NFL was being good on special teams coverage= pros have all kinds of shield blocking early releases. Typical Collins - doing the complicated before the punter is fully teained up.

 

[DeepSnap]

Having a one or two step punter can cure a lot of protection & coverage ills... a 3 or 4 step punter like Shanahan is asking for trouble... toss in Shanahan's "bad hands" - see the UGag game where the deepsnapper hit him in the hands & he dropped the ball for a TOVR - and it gets worse. Been there, done that (Army 1971).... I was fortunate my first two years we had WRs who could jump for punters.

Yeah, there was the occasional low snap this year, but do it 73 times over a season & they won't all be "4.0 perfection." It's part of the game.

 

[FlatsLander]

Having a one or two step punter can cure a lot of protection & coverage ills... a 3 or 4 step punter like Shanahan is asking for trouble... toss in Shanahan's "bad hands" - see the UGag game where the deepsnapper hit him in the hands & he dropped the ball for a TOVR - and it gets worse. Been there, done that (Army 1971).... I was fortunate my first two years we had WRs who could jump for punters.

Yeah, there was the occasional low snap this year, but do it 73 times over a season & they won't all be "4.0 perfection." It's part of the game.

I agree with most of your points, but to be fair, the dropped snap in the u[sic]ga game would have hit Shanahan in the ankles if his hands weren't there haha

 

[slugboy]

I watched the punt units in the conference championship games. Shanahan would have plenty of time to punt on any one of those units. Their punters weren’t getting the ball off much faster than we were. They might have been slower. Our punter was under pressure and theirs weren’t.
That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a huge amount of room for Shanahan to improve, but I could easily count off several seconds for the punters on other teams before they had to kick.

 

[stech81]

I always thought the best things for a good punt team is for the offense to pick up first downs.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

I watched the punt units in the conference championship games. Shanahan would have plenty of time to punt on any one of those units. Their punters weren’t getting the ball off much faster than we were. They might have been slower. Our punter was under pressure and theirs weren’t.
That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a huge amount of room for Shanahan to improve, but I could easily count off several seconds for the punters on other teams before they had to kick.

It seems to me that he gets his punt off slower than others, but I am not using a stopwatch to time him. For the sake of argument, let's say it is a half second difference. That is still a pretty big difference, which would result in defense getting a few yards closer to him than they should. I would add that if Shanahan is taking extra steps, which it looks like he is doing, he is also closing the physical gap between him and the defense, which may result in more blocks.

 

[roadkill]

I watched the punt units in the conference championship games. Shanahan would have plenty of time to punt on any one of those units. Their punters weren’t getting the ball off much faster than we were. They might have been slower. Our punter was under pressure and theirs weren’t.
That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a huge amount of room for Shanahan to improve, but I could easily count off several seconds for the punters on other teams before they had to kick.

Makes me wonder if some of the issues (hang time, directional punting, getting an appropriate bounce inside the 20, etc.) I've attributed to Shanahan are not at least exacerbated by the lack of time he has to get the punt off.
However, my eye test agrees with @leatherneckjacket with respect to the extra steps and time to get the punt off. Subjectively it seems this is an area he has improved in since Key took over.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

So, here are two punts.

The first one is against Ole Miss. Shanahan catches the ball, takes three steps, and gets blocked. His steps are slow, which results in three full second between snap and kick. He starts 14 yards behind the line of scrimmage and ends up 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage.



The second one is against Miami (4:10 mark). Shanahan catches the ball, takes three steps, and gets the kick off. His steps are faster in this one, which results in about two and half seconds between snap and kick. He starts 13.5 yards behind the line of scrimmage and ends up 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage.



So, it looks like his footwork is quicker, but can still be improved to eliminate the extra step. He also needs to be 15 yards back and not only 13.5-14 yards.

 

[ChristoGT]

IIRC, PHIII had a rough first year with a couple of punts blocked (they don't seem to keep records on that stat so couldn't find anything) and he was waaay inconsistent going 50 yards several punts and then shanking the next. I remember discussion about him slow-stepping as well but improved through the year. It definitely seems PHIII got some mentoring to get that under control and of course by his senior year he was about as consistent as you could find.

Hopefully Shanahan can get similar training to help himself and the team. His trajectory is definitely lower than PHIII (but there weren't many that can kick as high-arced as he did hence Ray Guy winner), but possibly more directional control kicking away from the returner or closer to sidelines may be his ticket.

 

[ibeattetris]

NCAA College Football FBS current team Stats | NCAA.com

Discover the current NCAA FBS Football leaders in every stats category, as well as historic leaders.

www.ncaa.com

Rank	Team	G	Yard	Ret Yards	Punts	TB	Net
121	Syracuse	12	1957	146	50	3	35.02
122	San Jose St.	11	2065	105	52	7	35.00
123	Buffalo	12	2239	228	53	8	34.92
124	App State	12	1631	30	43	5	34.91
125	Army West Point	11	1228	11	34	2	34.62
126	Virginia	10	2261	314	53	6	34.47
127	Washington	12	851	55	22	2	34.36
128	Ohio	13	1954	153	52	2	33.87
129	ULM	12	2762	477	66	4	33.41
130	Massachusetts	12	2873	143	79	6	33.04
131	Georgia Tech	12	3172	686	77	6	30.73

Just wanting to add more data to the discussion. The punting unit was egregiously bad. I don't know who is to blame, but doing a complete overhaul couldn't make it worse. We gave up over twice the return yards of the third worst. I also had no idea that we punted the third most of any team in the country. Considering how bad this unit was, our offense being atrocious only exacerbated things.

 

[Root4GT]

After Key took over, Shanahan averaged 43.1 yards a kick with no blocks.

He gave up a lot of return yards including a TD and fumbled a snap. He was still a bad punter on a bad punt unit.

 

[bishopbee]

He also needs to be 15 yards back and not only 13.5-14 yards.

That just makes it harder for the long snapper to deliver it consistently

 

[85Escape]

NCAA College Football FBS current team Stats | NCAA.com

Discover the current NCAA FBS Football leaders in every stats category, as well as historic leaders.

www.ncaa.com

Rank	Team	G	Yard	Ret Yards	Punts	TB	Net
121	Syracuse	12	1957	146	50	3	35.02
122	San Jose St.	11	2065	105	52	7	35.00
123	Buffalo	12	2239	228	53	8	34.92
124	App State	12	1631	30	43	5	34.91
125	Army West Point	11	1228	11	34	2	34.62
126	Virginia	10	2261	314	53	6	34.47
127	Washington	12	851	55	22	2	34.36
128	Ohio	13	1954	153	52	2	33.87
129	ULM	12	2762	477	66	4	33.41
130	Massachusetts	12	2873	143	79	6	33.04
131	Georgia Tech	12	3172	686	77	6	30.73

Just wanting to add more data to the discussion. The punting unit was egregiously bad. I don't know who is to blame, but doing a complete overhaul couldn't make it worse. We gave up over twice the return yards of the third worst. I also had no idea that we punted the second most of any team in the country. Considering how bad this unit was, our offense being atrocious only exacerbated things.

How the heck did we win five games?!?

 

[ChristoGT]

So, here are two punts.

The first one is against Ole Miss. Shanahan catches the ball, takes three steps, and gets blocked. His steps are slow, which results in three full second between snap and kick. He starts 14 yards behind the line of scrimmage and ends up 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage.



The second one is against Miami (4:10 mark). Shanahan catches the ball, takes three steps, and gets the kick off. His steps are faster in this one, which results in about two and half seconds between snap and kick. He starts 13.5 yards behind the line of scrimmage and ends up 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage.



So, it looks like his footwork is quicker, but can still be improved to eliminate the extra step. He also needs to be 15 yards back and not only 13.5-14 yards.

Wow, looking at that again is painful. I don't think you can blame the first on the kicker - even 1/2 yard shorter step wouldn't have mattered. Blocker was entirely untouched. T. McGuez didn't get a finger on him and backer was on another blocker.