Post-season Thoughts

RamblinRed

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
5,862
I've been mostly off message boards since the beginning of the year (and frankly enjoying life more due to that), but since the season is over thought I would give my thoughts.

I like to wait until an end of a season before discussing it in depth - you need to let all the chapters of the book unfold.

On the positive side this team was better than last year's team, even without Usher and Devoe.
The bad news is it was only a little better.
What i'm still not sure about is the change in February. Was it initiated by the staff or was it due to having no choice due to injuries? To me that is something Batt needs to understand. The former is better than the latter.

The team finished 7-3 over the last 10 with the 3 losses being 1 pt on the road to Wake, 8 pts on the road and in the ACC Tourney to Pitt.
This was a much better team late, but was so awful and uncompetitive in January - to the point of being almost unwatchable.

The staff spent way too long trying to run a Princeton offense with Howard as the trigger. This doesn't work because Howard is about as awful a fit for that offense as you could have. He is not a threat at the point of attack, he is not a threat to take anyone off the dribble, and he is not a gifted passer. true square peg/round hole issue. it was also a fairly poor defensive team both on the interior and perimeter for the first half of the season.

The change in fortunes largely aligns with the injuries to Howard and Smith and Terry getting 100% healthy.
When you had Smith and Howard in the game at the same time you are basically playing 3 on 5 at the offensive end.
I like Smith, he has improved alot this year, but he is still a rotational player, not a high level ACC starter due to his strengths and weaknesses. He is a fantastic rebounder and has turned into a really good ballhandler and passer as well as a high energy defensive guy. But on the other hand he is a horrible shooter at every level. In ACC Games he avg 37% FG, 29% 3FG and 36% FT. Hard to get much more inefficient than that. He almost looked scared to go strong to the basket because if he got fouled he was likely to miss FT, so he either went weak or tried to pass. I very much want him to return, but unless his shooting improves markedly you have to understand how to utilize him. If he could improve his shooting and become just an average FT shooter he could be dynamite.

We played less Princeton without Howard and Smith, but when we did play it, Franklin was the trigger man and his game was really well suited for it. You basically surrounded him with 4 guys who are capable shooters. If the defense laid off him he was aggressive about scoring opportunities, if they tried to cover him he was good at finding open shooters. Sturdivant remembering he was a solid player and Terry getting healthy made a big difference for scoring. Terry was also a deceptively good perimeter defender.
The perimeter defense was better later in the season as well, though the team was still susceptible to good interior players.

It's sort of a shame that Khalid Moore transferred to Fordham. He wouldn't have had as big of role here or put up as big of stats, but he would have helped this team and Moore and Franklin as part of a 3 guard - 2 F set would have been a very athletic, interesting pairing. IMO he would have been a better player than Howard in the rotation and been more impactful. I am happy though that he got to go home and have a big year in front of friends and family at a slightly lower level of competition.


I'm glad that all the regulars other than Franklin are likely to return.
I'm hoping Coleman can take a bigger jump next year. I don't think he enjoyed playing at the 4 spot much and I think that affected his shooting some, but we need him to become the scorer he was in HS as well as become a much stronger and willing rebounder. His rebounding is pathetic for a player his size.
Kelly is an alpha scorer. Just need him to tighten his handle a little and be more aggressive about going to the basket. Teams are going to respect his jumper so he should be able to get to the basket where if they foul him he is an almost automatic at the line.
Moore needs to work out with Franklin everyday and pattern his game after Ja'von's. They have very similar builds. He needs to develop a similar skillset and even more importantly a similar mindset about effort.
Terry just needs to continue to play hard. He has proven he is an ACC starting caliber guard.
Sturdivant needs to avoid long droughts. Continue to work on his outside shot. A few more percentage points would make a big difference. Plays well in the clutch.
Howard is an 8-10 min backup type. Without Coach Rev it feels like he regressed in most areas. We really need a starting quality big out of the portal, 2 would be even better.

I have high expectations long term for Blue Cain, he has become IMG Academy's best player this season and the level of competition that program faces will help make the jump to college easier. With Terry and Sturdivant likely returning that with the rest of the perimeter rotation will allow Cain to be able to come in and work in slowly and pick his spots.
With the right player or 2 out of the portal this can be a NCAA team next season. That soph class is a really nice core and Sturdivant and Terry give you 2 really experienced, solid guards. The obvious missing piece if a starting quality big.

As far as coaching.
Staff was way too slow to understand the weaknesses of this team and how to play to the strengths. Wasn't a particularly good coaching year. Props for keeping the team together when many would have just packed it in, but changes needed to be enacted sooner.

I'm sort of agnostic on coaching change. My head says we need a new HC, but my heart wants Pastner to succeed. I think Batt has a tough decision. It really comes down to does he have the money to make a change that will improve the program. If the answer is yes then you go after a new HC, if the answer is no then you keep Pastner until that changes. Change for change sake is not necessarily good and can lead to an even worse situation. Change because you feel confident it will make things better is when you take action.

I feel like the coaching staff may need further shake up as well. I feel like Wilkins and Schwartz overlap alot. Would love to find a solid big man coach who is also an outstanding recruiter.

I will say that even without any NIL last year, the two players we brought in through the portal ended up being two of the better players we have brought in through that process. IMO they were 2 of the 3 best players on the team this season (along with Kelly).
As far as transfers out, the most obvious candidates would be Meka and Maxwell. Though you have to wonder if they are close enough to graduating they might want to stay for the degree (both are 3 yrs in)- especially Meka who is a local kid.

I believe GT currently has one scholly open if every scholarship eligible player returns.
Sturdivant, Terry, Howard
Meka, Maxwell, Smith
Kelly, Coleman, Moore
Martynov, Bagatskis
Cain

Next year's projected roster has the look of an NCAA type team (alot of experienced players - including a couple of potential 5th yr starters) if it can add a starting caliber big.
Batt has an interesting decision on his hands.
 

99jacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
105
Location
South Georgia
I don’t really have anything to add but I just wanted to say that is a well thought out synopsis of the state of GT Basketball. As an alumni of the 90’s it pains me to see the program in this shape. But we didn’t reach where we were then overnight and so I realize this isn’t going to suddenly change dramatically either. I don’t envy the choice Batt has to make but my gut tells me the Pastner era probably needs to end since we pretty much can’t expect it be much better than what it has been.
 

Root4GT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,041
I've been mostly off message boards since the beginning of the year (and frankly enjoying life more due to that), but since the season is over thought I would give my thoughts.

I like to wait until an end of a season before discussing it in depth - you need to let all the chapters of the book unfold.

On the positive side this team was better than last year's team, even without Usher and Devoe.
The bad news is it was only a little better.
What i'm still not sure about is the change in February. Was it initiated by the staff or was it due to having no choice due to injuries? To me that is something Batt needs to understand. The former is better than the latter.

The team finished 7-3 over the last 10 with the 3 losses being 1 pt on the road to Wake, 8 pts on the road and in the ACC Tourney to Pitt.
This was a much better team late, but was so awful and uncompetitive in January - to the point of being almost unwatchable.

The staff spent way too long trying to run a Princeton offense with Howard as the trigger. This doesn't work because Howard is about as awful a fit for that offense as you could have. He is not a threat at the point of attack, he is not a threat to take anyone off the dribble, and he is not a gifted passer. true square peg/round hole issue. it was also a fairly poor defensive team both on the interior and perimeter for the first half of the season.

The change in fortunes largely aligns with the injuries to Howard and Smith and Terry getting 100% healthy.
When you had Smith and Howard in the game at the same time you are basically playing 3 on 5 at the offensive end.
I like Smith, he has improved alot this year, but he is still a rotational player, not a high level ACC starter due to his strengths and weaknesses. He is a fantastic rebounder and has turned into a really good ballhandler and passer as well as a high energy defensive guy. But on the other hand he is a horrible shooter at every level. In ACC Games he avg 37% FG, 29% 3FG and 36% FT. Hard to get much more inefficient than that. He almost looked scared to go strong to the basket because if he got fouled he was likely to miss FT, so he either went weak or tried to pass. I very much want him to return, but unless his shooting improves markedly you have to understand how to utilize him. If he could improve his shooting and become just an average FT shooter he could be dynamite.

We played less Princeton without Howard and Smith, but when we did play it, Franklin was the trigger man and his game was really well suited for it. You basically surrounded him with 4 guys who are capable shooters. If the defense laid off him he was aggressive about scoring opportunities, if they tried to cover him he was good at finding open shooters. Sturdivant remembering he was a solid player and Terry getting healthy made a big difference for scoring. Terry was also a deceptively good perimeter defender.
The perimeter defense was better later in the season as well, though the team was still susceptible to good interior players.

It's sort of a shame that Khalid Moore transferred to Fordham. He wouldn't have had as big of role here or put up as big of stats, but he would have helped this team and Moore and Franklin as part of a 3 guard - 2 F set would have been a very athletic, interesting pairing. IMO he would have been a better player than Howard in the rotation and been more impactful. I am happy though that he got to go home and have a big year in front of friends and family at a slightly lower level of competition.


I'm glad that all the regulars other than Franklin are likely to return.
I'm hoping Coleman can take a bigger jump next year. I don't think he enjoyed playing at the 4 spot much and I think that affected his shooting some, but we need him to become the scorer he was in HS as well as become a much stronger and willing rebounder. His rebounding is pathetic for a player his size.
Kelly is an alpha scorer. Just need him to tighten his handle a little and be more aggressive about going to the basket. Teams are going to respect his jumper so he should be able to get to the basket where if they foul him he is an almost automatic at the line.
Moore needs to work out with Franklin everyday and pattern his game after Ja'von's. They have very similar builds. He needs to develop a similar skillset and even more importantly a similar mindset about effort.
Terry just needs to continue to play hard. He has proven he is an ACC starting caliber guard.
Sturdivant needs to avoid long droughts. Continue to work on his outside shot. A few more percentage points would make a big difference. Plays well in the clutch.
Howard is an 8-10 min backup type. Without Coach Rev it feels like he regressed in most areas. We really need a starting quality big out of the portal, 2 would be even better.

I have high expectations long term for Blue Cain, he has become IMG Academy's best player this season and the level of competition that program faces will help make the jump to college easier. With Terry and Sturdivant likely returning that with the rest of the perimeter rotation will allow Cain to be able to come in and work in slowly and pick his spots.
With the right player or 2 out of the portal this can be a NCAA team next season. That soph class is a really nice core and Sturdivant and Terry give you 2 really experienced, solid guards. The obvious missing piece if a starting quality big.

As far as coaching.
Staff was way too slow to understand the weaknesses of this team and how to play to the strengths. Wasn't a particularly good coaching year. Props for keeping the team together when many would have just packed it in, but changes needed to be enacted sooner.

I'm sort of agnostic on coaching change. My head says we need a new HC, but my heart wants Pastner to succeed. I think Batt has a tough decision. It really comes down to does he have the money to make a change that will improve the program. If the answer is yes then you go after a new HC, if the answer is no then you keep Pastner until that changes. Change for change sake is not necessarily good and can lead to an even worse situation. Change because you feel confident it will make things better is when you take action.

I feel like the coaching staff may need further shake up as well. I feel like Wilkins and Schwartz overlap alot. Would love to find a solid big man coach who is also an outstanding recruiter.

I will say that even without any NIL last year, the two players we brought in through the portal ended up being two of the better players we have brought in through that process. IMO they were 2 of the 3 best players on the team this season (along with Kelly).
As far as transfers out, the most obvious candidates would be Meka and Maxwell. Though you have to wonder if they are close enough to graduating they might want to stay for the degree (both are 3 yrs in)- especially Meka who is a local kid.

I believe GT currently has one scholly open if every scholarship eligible player returns.
Sturdivant, Terry, Howard
Meka, Maxwell, Smith
Kelly, Coleman, Moore
Martynov, Bagatskis
Cain

Next year's projected roster has the look of an NCAA type team (alot of experienced players - including a couple of potential 5th yr starters) if it can add a starting caliber big.
Batt has an interesting decision on his hands.
As always your posts are well thought out and extremely insightful. Thanks for laying out your thoughts again.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,580
The change in fortunes largely aligns with the injuries to Howard and Smith and Terry getting 100% healthy.

While this is true, it also aligns with us playing a much easier part of the schedule.

In our last 9 ACC games (including the ACCT) we had 7 games against teams that finished in the bottom 7 of the league (not including us) and 2 against teams that finished in the top 7. In the first 13 that split was 4 games against the bottom 7 and 9 against the top 7. Now we obviously played better regardless of opponent the last month or so, but the schedule turned out to be very front loaded as well.
 

Root4GT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,041
While this is true, it also aligns with us playing a much easier part of the schedule.

In our last 9 ACC games (including the ACCT) we had 7 games against teams that finished in the bottom 7 of the league (not including us) and 2 against teams that finished in the top 7. In the first 13 that split was 4 games against the bottom 7 and 9 against the top 7. Now we obviously played better regardless of opponent the last month or so, but the schedule turned out to be very front loaded as well.
Good points on the schedule. One of the challenges in a 15 team conference teams conference records are not necessarily comparable. Who you play does matter as you pointed out.
 

Oakland

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,270
Location
Georgia
I've been mostly off message boards since the beginning of the year (and frankly enjoying life more due to that), but since the season is over thought I would give my thoughts.

I like to wait until an end of a season before discussing it in depth - you need to let all the chapters of the book unfold.

On the positive side this team was better than last year's team, even without Usher and Devoe.
The bad news is it was only a little better.
What i'm still not sure about is the change in February. Was it initiated by the staff or was it due to having no choice due to injuries? To me that is something Batt needs to understand. The former is better than the latter.

The team finished 7-3 over the last 10 with the 3 losses being 1 pt on the road to Wake, 8 pts on the road and in the ACC Tourney to Pitt.
This was a much better team late, but was so awful and uncompetitive in January - to the point of being almost unwatchable.

The staff spent way too long trying to run a Princeton offense with Howard as the trigger. This doesn't work because Howard is about as awful a fit for that offense as you could have. He is not a threat at the point of attack, he is not a threat to take anyone off the dribble, and he is not a gifted passer. true square peg/round hole issue. it was also a fairly poor defensive team both on the interior and perimeter for the first half of the season.

The change in fortunes largely aligns with the injuries to Howard and Smith and Terry getting 100% healthy.
When you had Smith and Howard in the game at the same time you are basically playing 3 on 5 at the offensive end.
I like Smith, he has improved alot this year, but he is still a rotational player, not a high level ACC starter due to his strengths and weaknesses. He is a fantastic rebounder and has turned into a really good ballhandler and passer as well as a high energy defensive guy. But on the other hand he is a horrible shooter at every level. In ACC Games he avg 37% FG, 29% 3FG and 36% FT. Hard to get much more inefficient than that. He almost looked scared to go strong to the basket because if he got fouled he was likely to miss FT, so he either went weak or tried to pass. I very much want him to return, but unless his shooting improves markedly you have to understand how to utilize him. If he could improve his shooting and become just an average FT shooter he could be dynamite.

We played less Princeton without Howard and Smith, but when we did play it, Franklin was the trigger man and his game was really well suited for it. You basically surrounded him with 4 guys who are capable shooters. If the defense laid off him he was aggressive about scoring opportunities, if they tried to cover him he was good at finding open shooters. Sturdivant remembering he was a solid player and Terry getting healthy made a big difference for scoring. Terry was also a deceptively good perimeter defender.
The perimeter defense was better later in the season as well, though the team was still susceptible to good interior players.

It's sort of a shame that Khalid Moore transferred to Fordham. He wouldn't have had as big of role here or put up as big of stats, but he would have helped this team and Moore and Franklin as part of a 3 guard - 2 F set would have been a very athletic, interesting pairing. IMO he would have been a better player than Howard in the rotation and been more impactful. I am happy though that he got to go home and have a big year in front of friends and family at a slightly lower level of competition.


I'm glad that all the regulars other than Franklin are likely to return.
I'm hoping Coleman can take a bigger jump next year. I don't think he enjoyed playing at the 4 spot much and I think that affected his shooting some, but we need him to become the scorer he was in HS as well as become a much stronger and willing rebounder. His rebounding is pathetic for a player his size.
Kelly is an alpha scorer. Just need him to tighten his handle a little and be more aggressive about going to the basket. Teams are going to respect his jumper so he should be able to get to the basket where if they foul him he is an almost automatic at the line.
Moore needs to work out with Franklin everyday and pattern his game after Ja'von's. They have very similar builds. He needs to develop a similar skillset and even more importantly a similar mindset about effort.
Terry just needs to continue to play hard. He has proven he is an ACC starting caliber guard.
Sturdivant needs to avoid long droughts. Continue to work on his outside shot. A few more percentage points would make a big difference. Plays well in the clutch.
Howard is an 8-10 min backup type. Without Coach Rev it feels like he regressed in most areas. We really need a starting quality big out of the portal, 2 would be even better.

I have high expectations long term for Blue Cain, he has become IMG Academy's best player this season and the level of competition that program faces will help make the jump to college easier. With Terry and Sturdivant likely returning that with the rest of the perimeter rotation will allow Cain to be able to come in and work in slowly and pick his spots.
With the right player or 2 out of the portal this can be a NCAA team next season. That soph class is a really nice core and Sturdivant and Terry give you 2 really experienced, solid guards. The obvious missing piece if a starting quality big.

As far as coaching.
Staff was way too slow to understand the weaknesses of this team and how to play to the strengths. Wasn't a particularly good coaching year. Props for keeping the team together when many would have just packed it in, but changes needed to be enacted sooner.

I'm sort of agnostic on coaching change. My head says we need a new HC, but my heart wants Pastner to succeed. I think Batt has a tough decision. It really comes down to does he have the money to make a change that will improve the program. If the answer is yes then you go after a new HC, if the answer is no then you keep Pastner until that changes. Change for change sake is not necessarily good and can lead to an even worse situation. Change because you feel confident it will make things better is when you take action.

I feel like the coaching staff may need further shake up as well. I feel like Wilkins and Schwartz overlap alot. Would love to find a solid big man coach who is also an outstanding recruiter.

I will say that even without any NIL last year, the two players we brought in through the portal ended up being two of the better players we have brought in through that process. IMO they were 2 of the 3 best players on the team this season (along with Kelly).
As far as transfers out, the most obvious candidates would be Meka and Maxwell. Though you have to wonder if they are close enough to graduating they might want to stay for the degree (both are 3 yrs in)- especially Meka who is a local kid.

I believe GT currently has one scholly open if every scholarship eligible player returns.
Sturdivant, Terry, Howard
Meka, Maxwell, Smith
Kelly, Coleman, Moore
Martynov, Bagatskis
Cain

Next year's projected roster has the look of an NCAA type team (alot of experienced players - including a couple of potential 5th yr starters) if it can add a starting caliber big.
Batt has an interesting decision on his hands.
Regarding a coaching change. I think if it happens, it will be next week. Probably some up and coming coach that did not make it to the NCAAT after all of the conference tournaments are over. If the choice is to keep Pastner, I think we'll know by Saturday. Just my guess.
 

Jacket4Life

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
486
Location
Georgia
Based on how we turned things around at the end of the season makes me think CJP will get another year. Is this the right move? Probably not, but have a hunch that is what will happen.
 

NewEnglandTransplant

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
70
Not much more to add beyond what has been said. Josh is an above average coach (half time adjustment wise) with a well below average record (ACC wining percentage of .398 over 128 ACC games in seven seasons and an overall winning percentage of .491 over a total of 222 games in seven seasons. His liability has been an inability to recruit ACC talent here. GT fired Brian Gregory in 2016 after his moribund tenure. Gregory won .307% of ACC games and .469% overall in five seasons so Josh's winning percentages were an improvement but not what we hoped for. Josh is a great guy, but let's move on from him.
Risky because the players seem to love him despite the losing records, how much will this cost, and lastly, can we win back the fan support?
 

ESPNjacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,531
I've been mostly off message boards since the beginning of the year (and frankly enjoying life more due to that), but since the season is over thought I would give my thoughts.

I like to wait until an end of a season before discussing it in depth - you need to let all the chapters of the book unfold.

On the positive side this team was better than last year's team, even without Usher and Devoe.
The bad news is it was only a little better.
What i'm still not sure about is the change in February. Was it initiated by the staff or was it due to having no choice due to injuries? To me that is something Batt needs to understand. The former is better than the latter.

The team finished 7-3 over the last 10 with the 3 losses being 1 pt on the road to Wake, 8 pts on the road and in the ACC Tourney to Pitt.
This was a much better team late, but was so awful and uncompetitive in January - to the point of being almost unwatchable.

The staff spent way too long trying to run a Princeton offense with Howard as the trigger. This doesn't work because Howard is about as awful a fit for that offense as you could have. He is not a threat at the point of attack, he is not a threat to take anyone off the dribble, and he is not a gifted passer. true square peg/round hole issue. it was also a fairly poor defensive team both on the interior and perimeter for the first half of the season.

The change in fortunes largely aligns with the injuries to Howard and Smith and Terry getting 100% healthy.
When you had Smith and Howard in the game at the same time you are basically playing 3 on 5 at the offensive end.
I like Smith, he has improved alot this year, but he is still a rotational player, not a high level ACC starter due to his strengths and weaknesses. He is a fantastic rebounder and has turned into a really good ballhandler and passer as well as a high energy defensive guy. But on the other hand he is a horrible shooter at every level. In ACC Games he avg 37% FG, 29% 3FG and 36% FT. Hard to get much more inefficient than that. He almost looked scared to go strong to the basket because if he got fouled he was likely to miss FT, so he either went weak or tried to pass. I very much want him to return, but unless his shooting improves markedly you have to understand how to utilize him. If he could improve his shooting and become just an average FT shooter he could be dynamite.

We played less Princeton without Howard and Smith, but when we did play it, Franklin was the trigger man and his game was really well suited for it. You basically surrounded him with 4 guys who are capable shooters. If the defense laid off him he was aggressive about scoring opportunities, if they tried to cover him he was good at finding open shooters. Sturdivant remembering he was a solid player and Terry getting healthy made a big difference for scoring. Terry was also a deceptively good perimeter defender.
The perimeter defense was better later in the season as well, though the team was still susceptible to good interior players.

It's sort of a shame that Khalid Moore transferred to Fordham. He wouldn't have had as big of role here or put up as big of stats, but he would have helped this team and Moore and Franklin as part of a 3 guard - 2 F set would have been a very athletic, interesting pairing. IMO he would have been a better player than Howard in the rotation and been more impactful. I am happy though that he got to go home and have a big year in front of friends and family at a slightly lower level of competition.


I'm glad that all the regulars other than Franklin are likely to return.
I'm hoping Coleman can take a bigger jump next year. I don't think he enjoyed playing at the 4 spot much and I think that affected his shooting some, but we need him to become the scorer he was in HS as well as become a much stronger and willing rebounder. His rebounding is pathetic for a player his size.
Kelly is an alpha scorer. Just need him to tighten his handle a little and be more aggressive about going to the basket. Teams are going to respect his jumper so he should be able to get to the basket where if they foul him he is an almost automatic at the line.
Moore needs to work out with Franklin everyday and pattern his game after Ja'von's. They have very similar builds. He needs to develop a similar skillset and even more importantly a similar mindset about effort.
Terry just needs to continue to play hard. He has proven he is an ACC starting caliber guard.
Sturdivant needs to avoid long droughts. Continue to work on his outside shot. A few more percentage points would make a big difference. Plays well in the clutch.
Howard is an 8-10 min backup type. Without Coach Rev it feels like he regressed in most areas. We really need a starting quality big out of the portal, 2 would be even better.

I have high expectations long term for Blue Cain, he has become IMG Academy's best player this season and the level of competition that program faces will help make the jump to college easier. With Terry and Sturdivant likely returning that with the rest of the perimeter rotation will allow Cain to be able to come in and work in slowly and pick his spots.
With the right player or 2 out of the portal this can be a NCAA team next season. That soph class is a really nice core and Sturdivant and Terry give you 2 really experienced, solid guards. The obvious missing piece if a starting quality big.

As far as coaching.
Staff was way too slow to understand the weaknesses of this team and how to play to the strengths. Wasn't a particularly good coaching year. Props for keeping the team together when many would have just packed it in, but changes needed to be enacted sooner.

I'm sort of agnostic on coaching change. My head says we need a new HC, but my heart wants Pastner to succeed. I think Batt has a tough decision. It really comes down to does he have the money to make a change that will improve the program. If the answer is yes then you go after a new HC, if the answer is no then you keep Pastner until that changes. Change for change sake is not necessarily good and can lead to an even worse situation. Change because you feel confident it will make things better is when you take action.

I feel like the coaching staff may need further shake up as well. I feel like Wilkins and Schwartz overlap alot. Would love to find a solid big man coach who is also an outstanding recruiter.

I will say that even without any NIL last year, the two players we brought in through the portal ended up being two of the better players we have brought in through that process. IMO they were 2 of the 3 best players on the team this season (along with Kelly).
As far as transfers out, the most obvious candidates would be Meka and Maxwell. Though you have to wonder if they are close enough to graduating they might want to stay for the degree (both are 3 yrs in)- especially Meka who is a local kid.

I believe GT currently has one scholly open if every scholarship eligible player returns.
Sturdivant, Terry, Howard
Meka, Maxwell, Smith
Kelly, Coleman, Moore
Martynov, Bagatskis
Cain

Next year's projected roster has the look of an NCAA type team (alot of experienced players - including a couple of potential 5th yr starters) if it can add a starting caliber big.
Batt has an interesting decision on his hands.
The only thing I'd add to that is both Coleman and Moore improved at the end of the year, which is obviously encouraging. Part of the improvement came from running an offense with better spacing but that doesn't discount their progress.
 

AUFC

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,846
Location
Atlanta
Did Pastner ever stray from the modified Princeton at Memphis? He may be more willing to change the offense in the future after the success this year.

To me, looking at Pastner’s ACC winning percentage and saying he sucks is like looking at (past) UVA’s PPG on offense and saying they are the worst team in Division 1. Pastner does a lot with little. If he could walk up to the best center (or his agent) in the portal this offseason, look him dead in the eye, and say Tech Way has $500k with his name on it, he’d have a much higher winning percentage next season.
 
Last edited:

Root4GT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,041
The only thing I'd add to that is both Coleman and Moore improved at the end of the year, which is obviously encouraging. Part of the improvement came from running an offense with better spacing but that doesn't discount their progress.
Spot on. Both of those guys did make major strides as the year played out. They will be very key to how next season plays out.

Moore took the most FTs on the team even though he played the 6th most minutes this year. He is not afraid to attack around the basket and likely will be better each year going forward. He appears to have a very nice ceiling. Now he simply should not shoot 3 pointers until he improves significantly in that area. 4-35 on the year.

Coleman logged the 2nd most minutes on the team by a good margin, only behind Kelly. His shooting was not as good this year though he seemed the be the guy who had to take the difficult shot as the shot clock ran down. He has a very solid shooting stroke. Seems he should be able to take a nice step up next year. His game is solid.

These two along with Kelly will be the guys that GTBB needs to play well to climb the latter of the ACC. They all seem like good young men as well.
 

YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
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3,260
Did Pastner ever stray from the modified Princeton at Memphis? He may be more willing to change the offense in the future after the success this year.

To me, looking at Pastner’s ACC winning percentage and saying he sucks is like looking at (past) UVA’s PPG on offense and saying they are the worst team in Division 1. Pastner does a lot with little. If he could walk up to the best center (or his agent) in the portal this offseason, look him dead in the eye, and say Tech Way has $500k with his name on it, he’d have a much higher winning percentage next season.
I saw Memphis under Pastner a couple of times and I did not see them run any offensive set anything near the Princeton set we run now. Nothing I saw was as structured as the princeton
 

whitegoldsphinx

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I saw Memphis under Pastner a couple of times and I did not see them run any offensive set anything near the Princeton set we run now. Nothing I saw was as structured as the princeton
I think installing the Princeton offense the first year was a reaction by the coaching staff to optimize the "talent" they inherited by utilizing the strengths of Lammers, who was perfect for the role. IIRC, Hardy had knowledge of the offense and was responsible for implementing it. Once Lammers was gone, the offense should have been scrapped as a base offense, IMO.
 

lv20gt

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Did Pastner ever stray from the modified Princeton at Memphis? He may be more willing to change the offense in the future after the success this year.


Pretty sure he didn't run it at Memphis at all. That's what makes his sticking with it odd. I really think the success he had with it in year one just has a hold on him that he can't quite completely let go of.
 

tbglover

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741
Did Pastner ever stray from the modified Princeton at Memphis? He may be more willing to change the offense in the future after the success this year.

To me, looking at Pastner’s ACC winning percentage and saying he sucks is like looking at (past) UVA’s PPG on offense and saying they are the worst team in Division 1. Pastner does a lot with little. If he could walk up to the best center (or his agent) in the portal this offseason, look him dead in the eye, and say Tech Way has $500k with his name on it, he’d have a much higher winning percentage next season.
At Memphis he kept the dribble drive offense that Coach Cal had run there. And it fit their personnel. Why he never tried to run most of that stuff here in the last couple of seasons baffles me. Our guys aren't necessarily as athletic as those guys but it would have fit this team's skillset better than shoehorning this version of the Princeton offense.
 

BeeRBee

Jolly Good Fellow
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236
I saw Memphis under Pastner a couple of times and I did not see them run any offensive set anything near the Princeton set we run now. Nothing I saw was as structured as the princeton
My memory is that Pastner said when he was hired that he liked the Princeton offense and thought it was effective and.at some point decided that he wanted to run it at his “next” job. He hired Tavares Hardy specifically to install and teach it because he had not previously run it.
 

ESPNjacket

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1,531
Did Pastner ever stray from the modified Princeton at Memphis? He may be more willing to change the offense in the future after the success this year.

To me, looking at Pastner’s ACC winning percentage and saying he sucks is like looking at (past) UVA’s PPG on offense and saying they are the worst team in Division 1. Pastner does a lot with little. If he could walk up to the best center (or his agent) in the portal this offseason, look him dead in the eye, and say Tech Way has $500k with his name on it, he’d have a much higher winning percentage next season.

The basketball people I know told me Pastner didn't run an offense of any kind at Memphis. More than one SEC coach who played against Memphis told a TV guy I know that Memphis, at that time, was the worst coached team he had ever seen.

I was not high on the hire.

I think the Memphis job is unique in that it recruits itself ( a lot of local talent that mostly want to stay home and play there) that haven't had the best coaching prior to college. I think Pastner is an average recruiter that looked good in that situation at recruiting and an average floor coach (who looks better than average at GT, where the attraction is higher for smarter players). I apologize for posting generalities but that is the only way to explain this.
 

57jacket

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I've been mostly off message boards since the beginning of the year (and frankly enjoying life more due to that), but since the season is over thought I would give my thoughts.

I like to wait until an end of a season before discussing it in depth - you need to let all the chapters of the book unfold.

On the positive side this team was better than last year's team, even without Usher and Devoe.
The bad news is it was only a little better.
What i'm still not sure about is the change in February. Was it initiated by the staff or was it due to having no choice due to injuries? To me that is something Batt needs to understand. The former is better than the latter.

The team finished 7-3 over the last 10 with the 3 losses being 1 pt on the road to Wake, 8 pts on the road and in the ACC Tourney to Pitt.
This was a much better team late, but was so awful and uncompetitive in January - to the point of being almost unwatchable.

The staff spent way too long trying to run a Princeton offense with Howard as the trigger. This doesn't work because Howard is about as awful a fit for that offense as you could have. He is not a threat at the point of attack, he is not a threat to take anyone off the dribble, and he is not a gifted passer. true square peg/round hole issue. it was also a fairly poor defensive team both on the interior and perimeter for the first half of the season.

The change in fortunes largely aligns with the injuries to Howard and Smith and Terry getting 100% healthy.
When you had Smith and Howard in the game at the same time you are basically playing 3 on 5 at the offensive end.
I like Smith, he has improved alot this year, but he is still a rotational player, not a high level ACC starter due to his strengths and weaknesses. He is a fantastic rebounder and has turned into a really good ballhandler and passer as well as a high energy defensive guy. But on the other hand he is a horrible shooter at every level. In ACC Games he avg 37% FG, 29% 3FG and 36% FT. Hard to get much more inefficient than that. He almost looked scared to go strong to the basket because if he got fouled he was likely to miss FT, so he either went weak or tried to pass. I very much want him to return, but unless his shooting improves markedly you have to understand how to utilize him. If he could improve his shooting and become just an average FT shooter he could be dynamite.

We played less Princeton without Howard and Smith, but when we did play it, Franklin was the trigger man and his game was really well suited for it. You basically surrounded him with 4 guys who are capable shooters. If the defense laid off him he was aggressive about scoring opportunities, if they tried to cover him he was good at finding open shooters. Sturdivant remembering he was a solid player and Terry getting healthy made a big difference for scoring. Terry was also a deceptively good perimeter defender.
The perimeter defense was better later in the season as well, though the team was still susceptible to good interior players.

It's sort of a shame that Khalid Moore transferred to Fordham. He wouldn't have had as big of role here or put up as big of stats, but he would have helped this team and Moore and Franklin as part of a 3 guard - 2 F set would have been a very athletic, interesting pairing. IMO he would have been a better player than Howard in the rotation and been more impactful. I am happy though that he got to go home and have a big year in front of friends and family at a slightly lower level of competition.


I'm glad that all the regulars other than Franklin are likely to return.
I'm hoping Coleman can take a bigger jump next year. I don't think he enjoyed playing at the 4 spot much and I think that affected his shooting some, but we need him to become the scorer he was in HS as well as become a much stronger and willing rebounder. His rebounding is pathetic for a player his size.
Kelly is an alpha scorer. Just need him to tighten his handle a little and be more aggressive about going to the basket. Teams are going to respect his jumper so he should be able to get to the basket where if they foul him he is an almost automatic at the line.
Moore needs to work out with Franklin everyday and pattern his game after Ja'von's. They have very similar builds. He needs to develop a similar skillset and even more importantly a similar mindset about effort.
Terry just needs to continue to play hard. He has proven he is an ACC starting caliber guard.
Sturdivant needs to avoid long droughts. Continue to work on his outside shot. A few more percentage points would make a big difference. Plays well in the clutch.
Howard is an 8-10 min backup type. Without Coach Rev it feels like he regressed in most areas. We really need a starting quality big out of the portal, 2 would be even better.

I have high expectations long term for Blue Cain, he has become IMG Academy's best player this season and the level of competition that program faces will help make the jump to college easier. With Terry and Sturdivant likely returning that with the rest of the perimeter rotation will allow Cain to be able to come in and work in slowly and pick his spots.
With the right player or 2 out of the portal this can be a NCAA team next season. That soph class is a really nice core and Sturdivant and Terry give you 2 really experienced, solid guards. The obvious missing piece if a starting quality big.

As far as coaching.
Staff was way too slow to understand the weaknesses of this team and how to play to the strengths. Wasn't a particularly good coaching year. Props for keeping the team together when many would have just packed it in, but changes needed to be enacted sooner.

I'm sort of agnostic on coaching change. My head says we need a new HC, but my heart wants Pastner to succeed. I think Batt has a tough decision. It really comes down to does he have the money to make a change that will improve the program. If the answer is yes then you go after a new HC, if the answer is no then you keep Pastner until that changes. Change for change sake is not necessarily good and can lead to an even worse situation. Change because you feel confident it will make things better is when you take action.

I feel like the coaching staff may need further shake up as well. I feel like Wilkins and Schwartz overlap alot. Would love to find a solid big man coach who is also an outstanding recruiter.

I will say that even without any NIL last year, the two players we brought in through the portal ended up being two of the better players we have brought in through that process. IMO they were 2 of the 3 best players on the team this season (along with Kelly).
As far as transfers out, the most obvious candidates would be Meka and Maxwell. Though you have to wonder if they are close enough to graduating they might want to stay for the degree (both are 3 yrs in)- especially Meka who is a local kid.

I believe GT currently has one scholly open if every scholarship eligible player returns.
Sturdivant, Terry, Howard
Meka, Maxwell, Smith
Kelly, Coleman, Moore
Martynov, Bagatskis
Cain

Next year's projected roster has the look of an NCAA type team (alot of experienced players - including a couple of potential 5th yr starters) if it can add a starting caliber big.
Batt has an interesting decision on his hands.
Excellent analysis! I agree with everything you mentioned. Big post man needed above all else for next year, whether Pastner is here or not. Thanks RR
 

slugboy

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My memory is that Pastner said when he was hired that he liked the Princeton offense and thought it was effective and.at some point decided that he wanted to run it at his “next” job. He hired Tavares Hardy specifically to install and teach it because he had not previously run it.
I remember that Sasquatch picked Pastner’s assistants, or at least made a lot of suggestions, but I could be incorrect.

My perception is that Pastner seems to be an outsider to the Princeton offense and isn’t natural at coaching it, and has more experience with dribble-drive (which he used more of earlier in his tenure here).

Brian Gregory was handed a GT program that was stocked with talent, and he ran it down. Pastner’s average is about Gregory’s average—he hasn’t built the program back up.

The basketball people I know told me Pastner didn't run an offense of any kind at Memphis. More than one SEC coach who played against Memphis told a TV guy I know that Memphis, at that time, was the worst coached team he had ever seen.

I was not high on the hire.

I think the Memphis job is unique in that it recruits itself ( a lot of local talent that mostly want to stay home and play there) that haven't had the best coaching prior to college. I think Pastner is an average recruiter that looked good in that situation at recruiting and an average floor coach (who looks better than average at GT, where the attraction is higher for smarter players). I apologize for posting generalities but that is the only way to explain this.

I don’t know how much Calipari built that vs how much Memphis has a local basketball culture, but there is a community that will support Memphis basketball monetarily and in attendance and in pushing local star players to go to Memphis. We could use that here. Calipari had a restaurant in Memphis when he coached there—people identify with that team.

Pastner was the proverbial teenager handed a used but well-kept Ferrari for their first car. Calipari handed off a very strong program. It would have been hard to achieve as much as Calipari did, but you could have kept the train going.

Pastner has good ideas about what to do. He sees other coaches employ good strategies. He tries to employ them himself. Princeton can be a great offense. Get old, stay old can be a good strategy as well. He hasn’t executed them well here.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
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5,580
I think the Memphis job is unique in that it recruits itself ( a lot of local talent that mostly want to stay home and play there) that haven't had the best coaching prior to college. I think Pastner is an average recruiter that looked good in that situation at recruiting and an average floor coach (who looks better than average at GT, where the attraction is higher for smarter players). I apologize for posting generalities but that is the only way to explain this.

As someone who lives in memphis, teaches in highschool, and is fairly familiar with the HS basketball scene, memphis is a toxic basketball city from the HS level to the pro level. Sure there is talent, but it is poorly coached, often comes with attitude issues and almost always comes with hangerons and bad voices in the ears to deal with. I'm sure that's true to some degree in many places, but comparing it to what I experienced when I was back in Atlanta, Memphis is special kind of toxic. It can certainly work (and even has it's advantages), but it really has to be the right coach, and Pastner was never going to be that.

Pastner was the proverbial teenager handed a used but well-kept Ferrari for their first car. Calipari handed off a very strong program. It would have been hard to achieve as much as Calipari did, but you could have kept the train going.

I mean, it would have been impossible to keep doing what Cal did at Memphis. How Cal built memphis was through the repeatedly bringing in top 5 class, which he took with him to Kentucky. Literally. So the train really can't keep going when the conductor leaves taking all the coal with him. Especially since everyone and their mother knows Cal was cheating his *** off there, and Pastner was likely chosen in part to help that image. Pastner's best at Memphis actually came in years 3 and 4 going 29-3 in conference over those two years and winning the conference title. Then they switched conferences from Conferences USA to the AAC and his performance dipped, but it was similar to what Memphis got from Tubby and Penny until the last couple of years (which still aren't close to Cal levels, and even then aren't to the levels Pastner got Memphis in a different league). FWIW Penny is a much better fit for Memphis than either Pastner or Tubby so I wouldn't be surprised to see him have continued success.
 
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