Penalties and Discipline

jgtengineer

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Right now, Steve Hummer is the only columnist over there that I think does a good column. Suguira is a beat reporter.
Watching the Pitt game, we were getting the short end of the stick. I’m hard-pressed to square my viewing of the game with Cunningham’s description.
He's a jaded georgia sports fan, every opinoon he has is through the eys fo a man who has lost his heart to georgia sports. At least he also calls out uGA on bs.
 

Lee

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
602
Actually the stats he pulled up from Temple make this even more concerning. Sounds like this staff coaches highly penalized teams. Not a good correlation
How can you say the stats point to that? He has two years of extremely low penalized teams and two years of extremely high penalized teams.

Can you tell me about the make up of the highly penalized Temple team vs the non penalized team?

As for this years GT team vs last year, a lot changed. We had a true freshman playing QB, true freshman LT, a very shortened spring, summer and fall camps. The jump in false starts makes total sense.

Many of the PIs in just the NC St. and Pitt games were ridiculous and that’s being nice.

Remember the “late hit” or personal foul on Thomas for breathing on Pitts qb? That’s not bad discipline.

Were we too penalized this year? Yes. There’s definitely a big area for improvement, but to act like there is some pattern based on 4 years of inconclusive data is a stretch in my opinion.
 

Lee

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
602
I usually don't buy the whole "ref's shafted us" line of thought, but the Pitt game was atrocious. That said, while I think it's a stretch to label 4 years as a definitive pattern, as Cunningham does, this paragraph is dead on:

"Tech’s grumbling about calls might play well with supporters who feel the same way. I don’t see how it helps the Jackets play winning football. How can Collins tell his players to brush off bad calls when he can’t seem to do it? If the coach is pointing a finger at the refs, then so will the players. A team that’s preoccupied with calls is focused on the wrong thing."

I've never played college football, but I did play college baseball, and our Coach would absolutely bench us if we went off on an umpire. Shoot, even a smart remark was enough to earn gassers after the game. Focusing on the calls distracts you from the game. I agree with Cunningham on this point.
I disagree. I played baseball at GT and coach Hall would lay into the umpires when it was needed.

That’s the coach’s job in my opinion. You don’t make a habit of it, but his job is to do it so the players don’t have to. If he doesn’t and the players feel like they’re getting screwed, they will take it into their own hands.

Remember Bobby Cox? Ever see him yell or get on an umpire? I think he may hold the record for most ejections. Off the field though he was as nice a man as you could meet and his players loved him.

Almost all good coaches lay into refs/umpires. Saban, Cox, even our own Paul Johnson would light them up. It comes with the territory.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Were we too penalized this year? Yes. There’s definitely a big area for improvement, but to act like there is some pattern based on 4 years of inconclusive data is a stretch in my opinion.

I agree with this. CGC doesn't have enough time as a HC to really tell yet how disciplined his teams will be. We will know more in the next year or two.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Augusta, Georgia
I disagree. I played baseball at GT and coach Hall would lay into the umpires when it was needed.

That’s the coach’s job in my opinion. You don’t make a habit of it, but his job is to do it so the players don’t have to. If he doesn’t and the players feel like they’re getting screwed, they will take it into their own hands.

Remember Bobby Cox? Ever see him yell or get on an umpire? I think he may hold the record for most ejections. Off the field though he was as nice a man as you could meet and his players loved him.

Almost all good coaches lay into refs/umpires. Saban, Cox, even our own Paul Johnson would light them up. It comes with the territory.

Misses the point. While I'm not a fan of laying into the umpires or refs, if you can do it and still be a good sport at the end of the game, then fine. When you've allowed outside circumstances to affect your demeanor so much that you can't be civil to an opposing coach, you need to work on that. You can be a fan of CGC and his energy and still criticize him when he needs it. This is one area where, IMO, CGC needs to get better.
 

FredJacket

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Just watching this team this year... they played with much to be desired in the "discipline" department. There were a few ticky tack roughing calls I'd quibble with... but that does not change the fact the lack of discipline hurt the team in several games. It can/will cost us points and wins if it isn't cleaned up.

It has to be cleaned up. If that just means a more 'experienced' team, then only time is needed (I think it is more than just that). If it means CGC needs to address it directly... that's inside the locker room stuff that I'd never be able to discern. I'll be paying attention next year on discipline and a lot more stuff to (hopefully) see a good trend. I'm much more concerned about the long-term right now than optimistic... but I appreciate many here talking me off the ledge. :):buzz:
 

Lee

Ramblin' Wreck
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602
Misses the point. While I'm not a fan of laying into the umpires or refs, if you can do it and still be a good sport at the end of the game, then fine. When you've allowed outside circumstances to affect your demeanor so much that you can't be civil to an opposing coach, you need to work on that. You can be a fan of CGC and his energy and still criticize him when he needs it. This is one area where, IMO, CGC needs to get better.
I agree this needs to get better and said as much in the other post you quoted.

I don’t know what happened at the end of the Pitt game. Well I don’t know why he chose to do what he did. It wasn’t a great look, but it’s not the first time that’s happened after a game.

My guess is it had more to do with Narduzzi than the officiating. My biggest beef with the situation was what he told the press. I just wish he would’ve been honest and said either he doesn’t respect Narduzzi for (whatever his issue is) or he was pissed and trying to get to the refs before they went in. And then followed that up with, “that being said, I should’ve handled the situation better. I’ve already apologized to my guys and called Narduzzi to apologize.”

We definitely need to clean the penalties up, but I think the end of the Pitt game is an aberration unless there’s evidence he’s done that before.
 

Techster

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I think we led the nation in penalties pre-snap...this has to improve.

It's the little things. Penalties, getting guys lined up correctly, positioning against the opponent, bringing opponents down on a tackle and not trying for highlight hits, filling your gaps, etc.

Little things add up to big things. These are things we can control. We're not talented enough where we can "give away" these little things and still expect to win. I mentioned in a game thread that watching 'Bama play, with all their talent, they don't sacrifice the little things. In fact, Saban will yank kids out if they mess up on those little things...even if they're up 40 points in the 4th quarter.

You don't need 5 stars to be good at those little things. Those are things that coaches need to hold players to account for. It's not a talent issue.
 

Oakland

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We have so much work to be done. At least discipline and self discipline won't require recruiting, donations, and building new facilities. No excuses, fix it starting today.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Just watching this team this year... they played with much to be desired in the "discipline" department. There were a few ticky tack roughing calls I'd quibble with... but that does not change the fact the lack of discipline hurt the team in several games. It can/will cost us points and wins if it isn't cleaned up.

It has to be cleaned up. If that just means a more 'experienced' team, then only time is needed (I think it is more than just that). If it means CGC needs to address it directly... that's inside the locker room stuff that I'd never be able to discern. I'll be paying attention next year on discipline and a lot more stuff to (hopefully) see a good trend. I'm much more concerned about the long-term right now than optimistic... but I appreciate many here talking me off the ledge. :):buzz:

I wouldn't overly worry about penalties. Most of them will be fixed with experience. Some we will have to learn to live with. CGCs strength is his passion, which channeled correctly is a truly impressive force. It will also be a weakness if he cannot learn to control it when things don't go his way. Overall though, I think we are in a good place right now, and just because we had a penalty issue this year doesn't indicate we have a serious discipline issue going forward.
 

Jacket05

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
290
I agree this needs to get better and said as much in the other post you quoted.

I don’t know what happened at the end of the Pitt game. Well I don’t know why he chose to do what he did. It wasn’t a great look, but it’s not the first time that’s happened after a game.

My guess is it had more to do with Narduzzi than the officiating. My biggest beef with the situation was what he told the press. I just wish he would’ve been honest and said either he doesn’t respect Narduzzi for (whatever his issue is) or he was pissed and trying to get to the refs before they went in. And then followed that up with, “that being said, I should’ve handled the situation better. I’ve already apologized to my guys and called Narduzzi to apologize.”

We definitely need to clean the penalties up, but I think the end of the Pitt game is an aberration unless there’s evidence he’s done that before.
Collins didn't do anything wrong in that handshake! He goes up to the middle meets Narduzzi tries to give him a quick handshake and then go off to be with the team. What makes it APPEAR to be bad is that Narduzzi death grips Collins' hand and tries to yank him back. There's even a picture right after Collins turns away and Narduzzi is still holding his hand where Collins has a smile on his face.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Collins didn't do anything wrong in that handshake!

We can quibble all day about intent, and whether he "technically" did anything wrong, but it fails on this point: being classy and showing good sportsmanship means you don't attempt a halfhearted half a millisecond handshake without even making eye contact. I'll defend CGC on a lot of things, including his choice CDP as OC, which isn't popular here, but he was absolutely wrong in how he handled that handshake.

In 2008 we instituted the Gold Standard for sportsmanship, where we encouraged our fans to show class and sportsmanship on game days. We should expect the same from our coaches and players.
 

GoldZ

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509
How can you say the stats point to that? He has two years of extremely low penalized teams and two years of extremely high penalized teams.

Can you tell me about the make up of the highly penalized Temple team vs the non penalized team?

As for this years GT team vs last year, a lot changed. We had a true freshman playing QB, true freshman LT, a very shortened spring, summer and fall camps. The jump in false starts makes total sense.

Many of the PIs in just the NC St. and Pitt games were ridiculous and that’s being nice.

Remember the “late hit” or personal foul on Thomas for breathing on Pitts qb? That’s not bad discipline.

Were we too penalized this year? Yes. There’s definitely a big area for improvement, but to act like there is some pattern based on 4 years of inconclusive data is a stretch in my opinion.
No big fan of Cunningham, but his point was: Both coaches he succeeded had low rates of penalties the two years before he came. The second year afterwards in each case, the penalties under CGC went up dramatically. This may not be a trend in Stat 101 at Tech, but in the extremely impatient world of CFB, it is. It's also not a good look for a HC learning his craft on the job. The discipline involved in penalties, especially dead ball penalties, can't help but spill over into assignment errors (how many times have we seen blown coverages). Imo, you said it right....it's definitely a big area for improvement. Again, imo, he will because it fits his goals. We will never have the luxury of being able via superior talent, to overcome considerably more penalties than our top 4-5 competitors.
 

Josh H

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
312
In 2008 we instituted the Gold Standard for sportsmanship, where we encouraged our fans to show class and sportsmanship on game days. We should expect the same from our coaches and players.
You mean "It's up with the white and gold...Georgia Tech is out for a victory"? Yeah, that can die a fiery death.
 

Sheboygan

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
307
We can quibble all day about intent, and whether he "technically" did anything wrong, but it fails on this point: being classy and showing good sportsmanship means you don't attempt a halfhearted half a millisecond handshake without even making eye contact. I'll defend CGC on a lot of things, including his choice CDP as OC, which isn't popular here, but he was absolutely wrong in how he handled that handshake.

In 2008 we instituted the Gold Standard for sportsmanship, where we encouraged our fans to show class and sportsmanship on game days. We should expect the same from our coaches and players.
FWIW, this is Narduzzi's postgame pc. He said that after the game he told CGC " you've got a great team, or something like that", and Collins said "baloney" ( BS ) and kept on walking. Interesting to see his takes on the penalties and our team, too.
 

CrackerJacket

Jolly Good Fellow
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Corpus Christi, TX
After watching 2 seasons of CGC, my eye test says too many penalties, esp. false starts, and spotty team discipline/focus. Maybe coach should put his players through more reps in practice and spend less time on slogans and ‘fun’. Competition may be King, but purposeful, focused practice is the Kingmaker.
 

GTRules

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
60
We can quibble all day about intent, and whether he "technically" did anything wrong, but it fails on this point: being classy and showing good sportsmanship means you don't attempt a halfhearted half a millisecond handshake without even making eye contact. I'll defend CGC on a lot of things, including his choice CDP as OC, which isn't popular here, but he was absolutely wrong in how he handled that handshake.

In 2008 we instituted the Gold Standard for sportsmanship, where we encouraged our fans to show class and sportsmanship on game days. We should expect the same from our coaches and players.
So now we say "To Heck With Georgia."

Maybe "I Don't Support The University Of Georgia. I Prefer Georgia Tech."

Who's gonna write the new fight song?
 
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