Pelton

[Whiskey_Clear]

We have a long history of developing 2 and 3 star guys into NFL players. That has continued post Tenuta.

 

[33jacket]

Your last post has merit. I think we can do better than we gave in those regards some. Sitting on the outside looking in though...I'm not sure it's fair to say we ain't trying to do just that.

ok so thats the finer point I am getting at. I don't see a defensive system to TRY to do this with....

 

[33jacket]

We have a long history of developing 2 and 3 star guys into NFL players. That has continued post Tenuta.

gosh, not so much on D...who? I am not talking sitting in a nfl camp or getting a tryout. Guys that actually ball in the nfl under paul on D?

Attachou was 4 star
jemea was practice squad...ok, but tenuta had a ton of those I didn't bother to list. Jahi Daniels, etc.
What was brandon watts? He had a year or was cut?

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

AJ Gray stands out a bit to me. Seems a bigger and rangier guy than we have landed in the past. Is that due to targeting him as a type to fit the system or is he just more gifted all around? Were we not going after his type before..? Or did we finally just get the guy we have been trying to?

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

gosh, not so much on D...who? I am not talking sitting in a nfl camp or getting a tryout. Guys that actually ball in the nfl under paul on D?

Attachou was 4 star
jemea was practice squad...ok, but tenuta had a ton of those I didn't bother to list. Jahi Daniels, etc.
What was brandon watts? He had a year or was cut?

I'm not gonna go down this path far as we could go back and forth all day. You mentioned Adam Oliver. A guy I loved who gave his all. What kind of NFL career did he have. Was I Johnson a 4 star? No.

 

[33jacket]

AJ Gray stands out a bit to me. Seems a bigger and rangier guy than we have landed in the past. Is that due to targeting him as a type to fit the system or is he just more gifted all around? Were we not going after his type before..? Or did we finally just get the guy we have been trying to?

AJ Gray is a ideal FS....And I would say he is in one of those positions, FS, that shares the same responsibility in most schemes. In Tenuta's scheme, you would never put him in the box...you would leave him high. He is just like Morgan Burnett...so yes, we have had that guy in the past. You want his frame, size, speed, smarts, ball skills high since he will take deep 9's in zone alot.

So again, some spots, like DT, some S spots (FS typically), some OLB spots...pretty similar and you get the best. Some spots, S, CBs, MLB and some OLB...even maybe rush ends (if you zone drop alot) you get to the specifics and finer points in.....

I will give you an example. Austin twins....both guys are either nickel CB's or S. In fact, I think SS. They are in the box players. If we put them wide...we are in trouble...mark my words. Watch...now I love them inside....and one or both with a few more LBs may slide to SS or S....but neither can play field. If we stick at field we are in big trouble. Maybe boundary...but that may be a stretch. They would be ideal as a cover 2 CB in boundary....but in man I am scared.

Take a guy like Gray...he is outside the box for sure at his current play skill....

PJ Davis, should never be a SAM. Never....we have him there many plays we don't flip our D much....he is at most a Will.....but...again, our system almost doesn't care.

 

[33jacket]

I'm not gonna go down this path far as we could go back and forth all day. You mentioned Adam Oliver. A guy I loved who gave his all. What kind of NFL career did he have. Was I Johnson a 4 star? No.

Adamm, first a good friend, tore his ACL last game his senior year. Not sure if you remember. vs UGA. Then our run d fell apart that game. He rehabbed it....rushed it....and had a tryout with Green Bay like 6 months later...and tore it again in that tryout. Not sure its fair to Adamm or reality. Joe also got cancer...what type of nfl career did he have? We haven't had a SDE worth a crap since he left. Well, let me say this, Derrick Morgan was one hell of an end but we flipped alot. So other than that.

I Johnson? Dude was 3 star and well known...not sure a good example...we are talking unknown 2 stars here. He had offers from UGA, Ole miss, Ok State etc. Not exactly what I would call under the radar

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Do I wish the twins were 3 inches taller? Yup. Am I glad they came to Tech? Damn right I am. Do most of our players have some weaknesses in their games? Sure. If we could have landed all 5 star guys would we have passed on the majority of our current guys? Depends on the gray matter too I reckon.

I know you have an axe to grind regarding Roof. You have made that clear. But you make some pretty bold and broad proclamations about our coaching and recruiting strategies. Those seem based on speculation but you present them as bold facts. That's where you lose me a bit.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I think you have a very valid point that we could benefit from creating more of an identity on D and then targeting recruiting toward that. Agree quite a lot actually. Im just not sure it's fair to say we don't have goals in that regard or aren't trying to target players to fit what we do.

 

[Techster]

One of the few issues I've had with the DL in terms of recruiting, and it's not all Pelton's fault, is that some of the guys we sign when looking at their recruiting highlight tape just don't stand out...and we're talking about their "highlight" tape. Makes you wonder what they look like on other plays. I think if you sign a DL on the prep level to play in a P5 conference, he should clearly be physically superior to any prep OL. I'm not talking about being bigger, but the ability to physically dominate. A good example of physical superiority on the prep level: Will Bryan, Vic Alexander, Anree Saint-Amour. Those guys were not 4 or 5 star guys. They were just very good players.

The reason I point that out is, if guys struggle getting by or bull rushing OLs on the prep level, does that bode well for them going against P5 level OL? Vic Alexander is considered a very small LB not just on this level, but on the prep level, but in his films he was throwing OLs on their butts. Will Bryan, considered to be a small OT on this level, was absolutely abusing DLs on the prep level. Anree was abusing high ranked OLs on during his prep career. If guys can't flash in their recruiting "highlight" tape, makes you worry about them on this level.

It's not surprising to see those guys doing well and contributing as true freshmen.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

delta, chan's staff did a awesome job at high school talent evaluation. You can't believe or trust stars. Its full of CRAP. I would say Pauls staff has not hit on defensive recruits at all, but as important has yet to run a true system, they can recruit a certain type of player too they identify with. This is why Tenutas system was awesome. Much like Pauls offensive system, they knew exactly what type of kid they needed at each spot and recruited to it. So they could blossom. You can't stick a big cover two CB into a man scheme and expect him to be good there too as he is in cover 2. Its why in the nfl draft they talk about this. He is a cover 2 corner....etc...

everyone says chan had one good recruiting year. Ok, that may be....but before that year ever existed that 2006 roster WAS FLAT STACKED. Something like 11 NFL players on the starting 22 maybe more. And that could not be more of in indictment to his coaching. That teams should not have lost more than 1 game. Calvin, tashard choice, Mike Cox, Andrew Gardner, Cord Howard, Mike Matthews All NFL offensive players and starters. 6 on offense. Defense, Vance Walker, Daryl Richard, Mike Johnson, Joe Anoia, Wheeler, Guyton, 6 on D...all except Joe with his Cancer were NFL players and I didn't even put in guys due to injury that didn't have a chance like Adamm Oliver.

this isn't a chan comparison, as Paul IMO is a FAR better head ball coach. So I am not making it that. But growing the 2 stars starts at good high school evaluation. We have done it on a smaller scale. Jemea Thomas. PJ Davis...but we haven't done it on the lines like we have in the past...

That team was stacked. And it was some recruiting of stars, but alot of GREAT system matching. Poor coaching killed that team. Man if paul had a defense like that....

I think paul is now doing a good job at system matching on offense....but...

Paul hasn't had a defensive system at tech yet. Groh I guess was the closest....but way too big of a shift in what we need talent wise to be successful in it.

I think part of the issue with our current and recent past DL is bad luck attrition. We had some promising young guys signed to the DL who were either medically, academically or socially disqualified (McCoy, Akins, Commissiong). We also had that kid committed who we couldn't sign due to academics who now starts at UNC. We're not a factory who signs 28 guys a year, we can't have our most promising recruits not pan out and not feel it.

 

[iceeater1969]

Heck, I am just glad to have 2015 2 quality DT recruits. We have glanton and henderson in the 6-1 290# range. Both appear to be athletic.
I am sure they dont have perfect body size for ala recruits ( 6-3 long arms, 305) , but they are better than the tall thin athletic types that would be great if holding was not allowed. Mean time these tall thin dt pop and get bent over as the pile falls fowards for 2 yards.

I say let's see what pelton can do with these two _ if they can add 10# arm muscle and 20# buttock muscle he will have tools he needs for a solid middle.

 

[33jacket]

I think part of the issue with our current and recent past DL is bad luck attrition. We had some promising young guys signed to the DL who were either medically, academically or socially disqualified (McCoy, Akins, Commissiong). We also had that kid committed who we couldn't sign due to academics who now starts at UNC. We're not a factory who signs 28 guys a year, we can't have our most promising recruits not pan out and not feel it.

yes that is true!!! But, lets face it...akins, commissiong...not exactly lighting it up where they are right? So did we miss on the recruit? But yes, attrition is killer here

 

[Deltajacket]

We lost the three players mentioned above. Green spent most of his career injured but was productive his last year. JHD was a 4* LB recruit. Kallon was originally a 3-4 DE project. Only Gotsis has consistently been a 4 yr DT. We've certainly had our challenges. I'm still curious to hear about our current DL coaching though. Is our lack of productivity on the DL a coaching issue, a scheme issue, or a player issue? All us fans have our uneducated opinions but I want to hear from guys that have "been there" on the college level.

 

[croberts]

No no no.....here is the issue obviously. Coach Pelton takes smart pills before coaching Gotsis. But he takes stupid pills before coaching the rest of the D line.

I know I'm being snarky but come on. Auburn had some damn good talent on that D line. Did they stone everyone? No. Did the fan base pull their hair out at times? Yes. Did their D face some damn good offenses? Yes. Did the D do a helluva job vs Oregon's vaunted O? Yeah they did. Aubie probably doesn't win several of those games without Cam. Aubie D stoned Bama in 2nd half to help forge that Cam comeback. The D helped win that natty.

Aubie won a national championship because of being able to pull from the juco ranks both Newton and Farley. I get tired of watching games and hearing about how great a D coordinator is when I am looking at the three deep and half of the players on the D front came in brainless from a JUCO.

 

[croberts]

gosh, not so much on D...who? I am not talking sitting in a nfl camp or getting a tryout. Guys that actually ball in the nfl under paul on D?

Attachou was 4 star
jemea was practice squad...ok, but tenuta had a ton of those I didn't bother to list. Jahi Daniels, etc.
What was brandon watts? He had a year or was cut?

Ataxhou was a three star.

 

[ATL1]

One of the few issues I've had with the DL in terms of recruiting, and it's not all Pelton's fault, is that some of the guys we sign when looking at their recruiting highlight tape just don't stand out...and we're talking about their "highlight" tape. Makes you wonder what they look like on other plays. I think if you sign a DL on the prep level to play in a P5 conference, he should clearly be physically superior to any prep OL. I'm not talking about being bigger, but the ability to physically dominate. A good example of physical superiority on the prep level: Will Bryan, Vic Alexander, Anree Saint-Amour. Those guys were not 4 or 5 star guys. They were just very good players.

The reason I point that out is, if guys struggle getting by or bull rushing OLs on the prep level, does that bode well for them going against P5 level OL? Vic Alexander is considered a very small LB not just on this level, but on the prep level, but in his films he was throwing OLs on their butts. Will Bryan, considered to be a small OT on this level, was absolutely abusing DLs on the prep level. Anree was abusing high ranked OLs on during his prep career. If guys can't flash in their recruiting "highlight" tape, makes you worry about them on this level.

It's not surprising to see those guys doing well and contributing as true freshmen.

Kallon flashed on film Not so much for GT.

 

[jayparr]

Lest you forget; we had Groh as the dc and that became a mess! It also took a different type of lineman. Then Roof had to start all over again to get his type lineman and also the far different def scheme.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Look how long it has taken for us to get a stable of running backs. That is to fit a particular scheme that has been highly successful for quite some time. We might be young in the backfield but we started the season with more talent back there than we have seen with CPJ. Think how wretched things would have been the last 3 years if we had similar attrition then.

It takes time to build talent and depth. It doesn't happen overnight. Coaching turnover tends to have adverse affects on that.

 

[jayparr]

Look how long it has taken for us to get a stable of running backs. That is to fit a particular scheme that has been highly successful for quite some time. We might be young in the backfield but we started the season with more talent back there than we have seen with CPJ. Think how wretched things would have been the last 3 years if we had similar attrition then.

It takes time to build talent and depth. It doesn't happen overnight. Coaching turnover tends to have adverse affects on that.

You got it straight up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!