Pass blocking and next year

Yaller Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
955
P J does not like to acknowledge that teams are playing us differently this year. It sounds too much like other teams have figured out his offense, and he won't listen to that. But they are playing linebackers and safeties more aggressively, and it's working. Because we are inept at pass blocking especially, it is disrupting everything we do.

When teams send more than we can block, the answer is hit 'em with pass plays that go for scores or big gains. A few of those and they are indecisive and must play a little less aggressively. When they do that, the normal assignments for blocking become manageable again. But what they are doing is working for them. Our pass plays practically never work. It's all on the pass protection. Our receivers are wide open but JT never has time to throw the ball.

We were pretty bad at pass blocking in the early years, but we got better for a couple of years there. It can be done. In particular, it looks to me like the B back is a big part of pass protection. If we can find a B between C J, Marshall, and Allen, I'd say he gets the most playing time. All can run with the ball. I'd tell 'em that in spring practice. Tell 'em to think of a whiff in pass blocking as the equivalent of a fumble. We also don't know what Quaide brings to blocking.

The side line screen gives me hope. If Cottrell is back 100 percent and his speed is the real thing, I think of him or Searcy getting that pass in space and turning it not just into a gain but a score.

Run blocking may just be marginally better. But I think part of why it looks so bad now is that they are sending more than we can block. If we slow that down a little, it'll probably look better. The other thing is to accept that last year's dominant line play was a perfect storm of circumstances. It probably is a once a decade kind of thing. But with more speed next year, when we do block a play well, we should be able to make it pay.
 

DvilleJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,677
Pass blocking is easily fixed by using a sprint out pass and having the linemen gate in that direction!
Been saying this all year! Quick passes to receiver or backs in open space. Not sure why we have to throw deep or nothing at all.
 

RyanS12

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If it doesn't improve then shotgun shotgun shotgun! That should give JT enough time to throw a quick pass or take off running. Plus the footwork the QB is taught in this system when passing still has me confused.
 

Skeptic

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6,372
If it doesn't improve then shotgun shotgun shotgun! That should give JT enough time to throw a quick pass or take off running. Plus the footwork the QB is taught in this system when passing still has me confused.
Maybe part of the problem is that Thomas has been quoted as saying he doesn't worry about footwork when he is throwing. He just throws. Interesting if true, but I do see a lot of quick draw, back foot throws.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
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10,486
Pass pro and our lack of a fix is my main criticism of CPJ. I dang sure don't have the answer to the solution and I'm not even certain what the primary failure is here.

I try and avoid coaching from my armchair. When I do indulge in doing so I see our QB, who has amazing wheels, and wonder why we are not able to burn teams with QB scrambles from the pocket. (Sprint outs kinda prevent this as we abandon the pocket, and sprint outs are our primary answer to our pass pro struggles) I do have to concede that we seem unable to create much of a pocket to begin with. On top of that our QB is so short it's hard for him to see over blockers etc.

In summary I recognize a problem, recognize we are failing to take advantage of our QBs scrambling ability and haven't been able to overcome some of his limitations as much as we'd like. Recognizing a problem and solving it are two separate issues. The solutions aren't as easy as short passes, we do those despite many denials among the fan base. These problems aren't likely to be solved with use of different play calls. They will probably have to be solved through coaching, more experience, physical improvement, and film study. In short...no obvious quick fix. Play makers from skill positions, like Smelter, making great individual plays will certainly also help.
 
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So are you saying Jeune and Stewart and Lynch haven't been playmakers cause I might have seen a different game than you but they have bailed out our QB several times.
 

Skeptic

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6,372
So are you saying Jeune and Stewart and Lynch haven't been playmakers cause I might have seen a different game than you but they have bailed out our QB several times.
Maybe the issue really is that they have not made the really big plays that Smelter and as it turned out, Waller, could make. Not to say they won't with experience, just that they didn't. Yes, I know the issues with time to throw and all. But whoever thought Smelter was going to come off a ball diamond and be that kind of receiver? And Waller? The kid seemed in love with trouble his whole GT career, and then ... we'll see next season.
 

LibertyTurns

Banned
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6,216
Did something I never do last night which is watch GT games in slo mo & replayed plays to watch what was transpiring between last year's Orange Bowl and the VT game. I'm not an X & O guy, but I do know 1 thing. Last year I could predict what play we were running before the snap about 75% of the time based on the defensive alignment. This year I'm wrong so often it's like betting on a number at a roulette wheel. That Navy guy had that link to the Triple Option and after studying that for a while not saying you could 100% determine what we were about to do but the percentage is very high.

Here's my observations:
a. Our ABs are lining up significantly closer to the line than last year, by about a yard, and are much closer to the tackles. They're nearly on the tackle's hip often. Why the change?
b. Every time we run an AB directly behind the line we pass. Almost no exceptions.
c. We were snapping the ball after the AB in motion had taken about a step, step & a half last year. This year when we're snapping the ball the AB is frequently all the way behind the BB or damn near him.
d. Lands-Davis appears to lean into the direction of the play before the snap. Maybe I'm just imaging it?

Now we're either telegraphing our plays or defensive coordinators have trained their defenses to show us a look where we'll do one thing with the intention of shifting into a good position to counter that as the ball's snapped. I don't think they're that smart. Last option is they're rolling the dice and randomly guess what we'll do figuring if they're right 1 out of 3 maybe we don't get a first down and stall. Compunded with some poor blocking one of these 3 is derailing us.

I'm putting my money on we're telegraphing the plays somehow. As I watched the blocking from last year I'm not as convinced we were all world last year despite the phenomenal results on the field.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
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10,486
So are you saying Jeune and Stewart and Lynch haven't been playmakers cause I might have seen a different game than you but they have bailed out our QB several times.

I'm not saying they haven't made plays. Jeune in particular has more than the others I think. But none have gotten open or made as many big plays as Smelter last year. Can those guys be as good eventually? Sure...and maybe even better.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,928
Did something I never do last night which is watch GT games in slo mo & replayed plays to watch what was transpiring between last year's Orange Bowl and the VT game. I'm not an X & O guy, but I do know 1 thing. Last year I could predict what play we were running before the snap about 75% of the time based on the defensive alignment. This year I'm wrong so often it's like betting on a number at a roulette wheel. That Navy guy had that link to the Triple Option and after studying that for a while not saying you could 100% determine what we were about to do but the percentage is very high.

Here's my observations:
a. Our ABs are lining up significantly closer to the line than last year, by about a yard, and are much closer to the tackles. They're nearly on the tackle's hip often. Why the change?
b. Every time we run an AB directly behind the line we pass. Almost no exceptions.
c. We were snapping the ball after the AB in motion had taken about a step, step & a half last year. This year when we're snapping the ball the AB is frequently all the way behind the BB or damn near him.
d. Lands-Davis appears to lean into the direction of the play before the snap. Maybe I'm just imaging it?
I'm not an X and O guy either, but I think I've seen enough to give a kinda, sorta answer to these questions:

a. I think this is because most of our AB speed is on the sidelines. Having them closer in means they don't have to run as far to either get to their assigned block or to the correct pitch position.
b. I think the answer here is the same. We are slower at the position and they need more time to get open. (I'm much less sure about this one then the others.)
c. Same song, third verse. A little bit louder and a little bit worse. Our present ABs aren't as big, strong, or, especially, fast as they were last year. Big, fat problem = JT is much faster then they are -> continuing problems with pitch relationships. I expect that giving them a head start is the only solution.
d. I hadn't noticed this, but I'm not surprised. He is not only a true frosh, but he's playing out of position. Once he's back at BB, we'll want him leaning and this won't be a problem. Maybe.
 

iceeater1969

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9,000
So are you saying Jeune and Stewart and Lynch haven't been playmakers cause I might have seen a different game than you but they have bailed out our QB several times.
Did something I never do last night which is watch GT games in slo mo & replayed plays to watch what was transpiring between last year's Orange Bowl and the VT game. I'm not an X & O guy, but I do know 1 thing. Last year I could predict what play we were running before the snap about 75% of the time based on the defensive alignment. This year I'm wrong so often it's like betting on a number at a roulette wheel. That Navy guy had that link to the Triple Option and after studying that for a while not saying you could 100% determine what we were about to do but the percentage is very high.

Here's my observations:
a. Our ABs are lining up significantly closer to the line than last year, by about a yard, and are much closer to the tackles. They're nearly on the tackle's hip often. Why the change?
b. Every time we run an AB directly behind the line we pass. Almost no exceptions.
c. We were snapping the ball after the AB in motion had taken about a step, step & a half last year. This year when we're snapping the ball the AB is frequently all the way behind the BB or damn near him.
d. Lands-Davis appears to lean into the direction of the play before the snap. Maybe I'm just imaging it?

Now we're either telegraphing our plays or defensive coordinators have trained their defenses to show us a look where we'll do one thing with the intention of shifting into a good position to counter that as the ball's snapped. I don't think they're that smart. Last option is they're rolling the dice and randomly guess what we'll do figuring if they're right 1 out of 3 maybe we don't get a first down and stall. Compunded with some poor blocking one of these 3 is derailing us.

I'm putting my money on we're telegraphing the plays somehow. As I watched the blocking from last year I'm not as convinced we were all world last year despite the phenomenal results on the field.
Thanks for some specific ideas!
They could be totally wrong, but at least its not the players or the coaches suck.

Thanks its like the gt swarn blog might get back to basics

I am watching vt in second q and will note your comments
 

Boomergump

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Featured Member
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3,262
Speed at AB is down, way down. Blocking at AB is also down. I don't think getting to the blocks in time has been a problem. In fact, I would say just the opposite. We are often getting there too soon and we are not blocking THROUGH the legs of the defenders, but rather just chipping down low a bit too soon, giving them a chance to recover without going to the ground. Guys like MLD are physical enough to hammer bigger players, blocking up high in the trash, but haven't developed the feel for blocking in space down low against agile defenders.
 
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iceeater1969

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9,000
When we get a little space on the edge, It appears (sometimes)the running ab are running a pre programed curve and are not getting on the blockers hip. Open field blocking is definitly helped by the runner setting up the defender.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,000
You may be right about gary
At vt game On bench 73 was nervous as a cat. Kept putting on helmet as if he could be sent in. He would inch over to be near group going in.

Quite a change from 5 weeks ago when just waling around at end of bench.

Would love to see a pulling guard!
(Defenses do not put anyone over sham or seldom over erin due to them being so powerful but they cant pull like shaq could. )
 

Oldgoldandwhite

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,640
Did something I never do last night which is watch GT games in slo mo & replayed plays to watch what was transpiring between last year's Orange Bowl and the VT game. I'm not an X & O guy, but I do know 1 thing. Last year I could predict what play we were running before the snap about 75% of the time based on the defensive alignment. This year I'm wrong so often it's like betting on a number at a roulette wheel. That Navy guy had that link to the Triple Option and after studying that for a while not saying you could 100% determine what we were about to do but the percentage is very high.

Here's my observations:
a. Our ABs are lining up significantly closer to the line than last year, by about a yard, and are much closer to the tackles. They're nearly on the tackle's hip often. Why the change?
b. Every time we run an AB directly behind the line we pass. Almost no exceptions.
c. We were snapping the ball after the AB in motion had taken about a step, step & a half last year. This year when we're snapping the ball the AB is frequently all the way behind the BB or damn near him.
d. Lands-Davis appears to lean into the direction of the play before the snap. Maybe I'm just imaging it?

Now we're either telegraphing our plays or defensive coordinators have trained their defenses to show us a look where we'll do one thing with the intention of shifting into a good position to counter that as the ball's snapped. I don't think they're that smart. Last option is they're rolling the dice and randomly guess what we'll do figuring if they're right 1 out of 3 maybe we don't get a first down and stall. Compunded with some poor blocking one of these 3 is derailing us.

I'm putting my money on we're telegraphing the plays somehow. As I watched the blocking from last year I'm not as convinced we were all world last year despite the phenomenal results on the field.
Agree! They seem to know what's coming. You can tell by the pre snap movement.
 

Ash

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
766
Been saying this all year! Quick passes to receiver or backs in open space. Not sure why we have to throw deep or nothing at all.

Chuck and pray has been our passing tree for years. If it wasn't a burner down the sideline we didn't run it.
 
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