Option football in the pro's

[ponder6168]

@forensicbuzz has a point. Just because those who said the same thing about the BCS AQ level now look foolish doesn't mean the same reasoning pushed up a level with no data to support it is foolish.

Not sure what you mean about the BCS AQ level. If we don't have any data (and we don't have much at the NFL level) then we are all just guessing and having fun doing it waiting for GT to rush for 600 yards!

 

[forensicbuzz]

@forensicbuzz has a point. Just because those who said the same thing about the BCS AQ level now look foolish doesn't mean the same reasoning pushed up a level with no data to support it is foolish.

You're right, I do have a point. I punctuated that point by saying it was my opinion.

 

[AE 87]

You're right, I do have a point. I punctuated that point by saying it was my opinion.

I don't know why your whole post wasn't quoted.

I responded to your post. I didn't make any personal attack about what you always do, as you have just done to me.

If you have a problem with what I said, respond to my post without resorting to personal attack.

It seems to me that you agree with what I said but for some reason are upset because I said it. If not, please explain what you disagree with.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I don't know why your whole post wasn't quoted.

I responded to your post. I didn't make any personal attack about what you always do, as you have just done to me.

If you have a problem with what I said, respond to my post without resorting to personal attack.

It seems to me that you agree with what I said but for some reason are upset because I said it. If not, please explain what you disagree with.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant. Either way, I re-read what I wrote and felt it was out-of-line, so I deleted the 2nd paragraph. I probably saved it before you posted, so you only got what I left. It's been a long day.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

That gif on the hit....I actually hadn't seen it before....that's barely an option play. And that is what everyone is hanging their hats on about QBs would get hammered. Not if its a true option QB running a true option play...

I'd understand the take on this argument more if it was coming from fans unfamiliar with our offense.

For argument sake....Vic Beasley was a very fast, powerful, quick, DE drafted very early. Why did we not see him tee off on JT if it's so easy for pro type talent to do???

 

[Northeast Stinger]

And that's the zone read from the shotgun. Imagine trying to work down the line...there would have to be a wholesale change in how the QB position was used to survive. Just my opinion.

But here is an interesting question. CPJ perfected and is committed to the Flex Bone because he believes the formation puts the offensive backfield at a competitive advantage. They are not 7-10 yards off the line of scrimmage. That means the defensive players cannot get up a full head of steam on many of the plays and more times than not are having to react to a ball carrier who is already on them or by them. So if CPJ is correct, and I tend to think he is, is the defense really going to be able to draw a bead on a player and bring the hammer like they do when it is third and long and the quarterback is a pocket passer?

 

[forensicbuzz]

But here is an interesting question. CPJ perfected and is committed to the Flex Bone because he believes the formation puts the offensive backfield at a competitive advantage. They are not 7-10 yards off the line of scrimmage. That means the defensive players cannot get up a full head of steam on many of the plays and more times than not are having to react to a ball carrier who is already on them or by them. So if CPJ is correct, and I tend to think he is, is the defense really going to be able to draw a bead on a player and bring the hammer like they do when it is third and long and the quarterback is a pocket passer?

Over all I agree 100%. My comments weren't regarding whether an option-based offense will work, rather that, in my opinion, the speed and athleticism of the defense would make it harder to keep a QB healthy. My comment above was that the zone read option will put the QB in harms' way less often than operating from under center. I just think that the hits a QB moving down the line will take are more likely to affect his longevity versus starting in the shotgun. My comments are all to do with the QB, not whether the option will work. I think it could work, and I may be 100% wrong about the QB's getting blown up.

 

[GTRX7]

I tend to agree with others that don't see why injuries to QB's would be different between college and NFL. I get that NFL defensive players are faster, bigger, and stronger, but so are the NFL offensive lines, running backs, and QBs (look how much bigger JT has gotten since his freshman year). I too thought college teams would just tee off on our QBs and knock them out all the time. That hasn't happened though. I think part of it is that our scheme lends itself to the QB usually knowing when he is going to get hit and preparing for it (as opposed to a QB being sacked from the backside) or avoiding it altogether (once the man commits and the QB decides to pitch, the QB usually doesn't continue to carry out the fake, but instead just gets out of the way), and the fact that tee'ing off on a QB without playing sound defense is a pretty easy way to let the other team take it to the house on a single play.

If the only argument is about discrepancy in athleticism (which is the only argument I think is being put forth), then, as the OP pointed out, why don't Navy's QBs get absolutely torn apart when they play the Notre Dames of the world? Why wasn't Tevin Washington torn apart by USC, FSU, etc. Is the argument that Notre Dame, USC, and FSU's defensive players are literally just to weak to hurt a college QB, but need 2-3 more years to develop? I am not sure I would agree with that.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

IMO part of the misconception has to do with a lack of understanding of what our QB is doing as he "runs toward the nose" of the option man in the alley. The option man, often the DE...is playing the alley and has to decide to play the QB or pitch man. If he plans to "tee off" on the QB...that is apparent in his positioning etc. The QB in that case pitches....and won't do so at the very last moment (won't need to if the QB and pitch man take the proper paths) ...and will then move to avoid a big hit...even if hit it won't be the same kind of hit pocket passers take when blindsided.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Know what a DE looking to "tee off" on our QB is likely to get? #1...some very nice runs by our ABs. #2...a steady diet of cut blocks coming from multiple positions.

 

[AE 87]

Know what a DE looking to "tee off" on our QB is likely to get? #1...some very nice runs by our ABs. #2...a steady diet of cut blocks coming from multiple positions.

Fwiw, if it's the DE looking to to "tee-off" on our QB during our base triple option (inside-veer), it should get some very nice runs by our B-Backs. The DE is typically the Dive Key, not the pitch key.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Very true sir. Thank u for clarifying.

 

[Skeptic]

IMO part of the misconception has to do with a lack of understanding of what our QB is doing as he "runs toward the nose" of the option man in the alley. The option man, often the DE...is playing the alley and has to decide to play the QB or pitch man. If he plans to "tee off" on the QB...that is apparent in his positioning etc. The QB in that case pitches....and won't do so at the very last moment (won't need to if the QB and pitch man take the proper paths) ...and will then move to avoid a big hit...even if hit it won't be the same kind of hit pocket passers take when blindsided.

Perhaps. But Thomas has several highlight videos of the last minute toss before getting leveled, every bit as hard as a pocket passer, and was pinballed and driven out on the sideline, a hit a pocket passer would never sustain. Was it the first or second series against FSU when he was flipped for his trouble, and later on just trucked? I wouldn't argue the point as I never played DE and all my experience was in HS so I don't know. But often, guys, we think those LBs and DEs are troglodytes dragging their knuckles until they can go pro. They're in college, too. And they can fool a QB, too, and hit the QB hard.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

It's football...hits happen...and yes JT has made a few late pitches...a bit ill advised even tho they worked. But I still say overall...he takes less of a beating on option runs than a pocket passer blindsided.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

I tend to agree with others that don't see why injuries to QB's would be different between college and NFL. ................

If the only argument is about discrepancy in athleticism (which is the only argument I think is being put forth), then, as the OP pointed out, why don't Navy's QBs get absolutely torn apart when they play the Notre Dames of the world? Why wasn't Tevin Washington torn apart by USC, FSU, etc. Is the argument that Notre Dame, USC, and FSU's defensive players are literally just to weak to hurt a college QB, but need 2-3 more years to develop? I am not sure I would agree with that.

Look at the JN injury against UGAg and JN against Fluke. Both happened after the play was over. The two UGAg players conspired and pulled JN's legs apart when he had been down for over a second. The Fluke DB did an alligator roll on JT last year and messed up JT's knee after JT was tackled. You do that type crap in the NFL and you will be suspended; if not in the game but on the replay. Or the other team will exact an appropriate revenge. As it should be.

In CFB, so what.

As a passing QB, there are fewer chances on the ground ( and getting to the ground) to do damage where you won't be penalized.

Yeah, there is a reason I want to see us slowly and painfully dismember Fluke this year.

Back to the original topic, the option will work in the NFL after a few years of player development. Once again, I hope no one takes CPJ.

 

[GTRanj]

Look at the JN injury against UGAg and JN against Fluke. Both happened after the play was over. The two UGAg players conspired and pulled JN's legs apart when he had been down for over a second. The Fluke DB did an alligator roll on JT last year and messed up JT's knee after JT was tackled. You do that type crap in the NFL and you will be suspended; if not in the game but on the replay. Or the other team will exact an appropriate revenge. As it should be.

In CFB, so what.

As a passing QB, there are fewer chances on the ground ( and getting to the ground) to do damage where you won't be penalized.

Yeah, there is a reason I want to see us slowly and painfully dismember Fluke this year.

Back to the original topic, the option will work in the NFL after a few years of player development. Once again, I hope no one takes CPJ.

I would love to see CPJ show his offense in the NFL! After he wins an NC here, have him go to the Falcons. Win the super bowl there, meanwhile Ted roof kills it on D in the next few years, thereby named Paul's replacement. Bohannon at KSU works out great and is lured back here to be OC and eventual associate coach. GT build upon their rich college history while CPJ tears up the NFL!

 

[GTNavyNuke]

I would love to see CPJ show his offense in the NFL! After he wins an NC here, have him go to the Falcons. Win the super bowl there, meanwhile Ted roof kills it on D in the next few years, thereby named Paul's replacement. Bohannon at KSU works out great and is lured back here to be OC and eventual associate coach. GT build upon their rich college history while CPJ tears up the NFL!

I need some of what you have!

 

[Declinometer]

I would love to see cpj show his offense in the NFL! After he wins an NC here, have him go to the falcons. Win the super bowl there, meanwhile Ted roof kills it on D in the next few years, thereby named Paul's replacement. Bohannon at ksu work out great and is lured back here to be OC and eventual associate coach. GT build upon their rich college history while CPJ tears up the NFL!

I can't think of any coach that has as many fans that he does that pull for the teams that he coaches. My feeling is that there are many GSU fans and U.S. Naval Academy fans that pull for GT.
Is there another coach that carries fans with them like CPJ?

 

[GTRanj]

I need some of what you have!

Goals
aim high or what's the point!

 

[DCSS]

The thing that bothers me about it is the rhetoric against option football on the recruiting trail. "It won't get you ready for the NFL" and similar statements. The truth is, if you have the skills and the physicality, the system your college team runs matters little.