Option football in the pro's

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
mj claz said:
Exactly. I am a Buffalo Bills fan and we have had well-documented issues at QB. Our defense and skill positions may be great this year because we have less money tied up at the QB position than most teams, so more money to spend on the rest of the roster.

Say we have $5 million tied up at QB this year. That could get you a very mediocre pro-style QB like Matt Cassel or EJ Manuel, or it could get you Tyrod Taylor and Justin Thomas, star QBs in your system who commands next to nothing on the free market. Now if you want to try to sign guys who would be very good in either a pro-style system or an option system like Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, etc, then the argument about the inability to stock 3 QBs due to money makes sense.

GT has been able to get away with a lack of a good passing game for years. Obviously our offense is better when we can pass, but we can still run a pretty good offense with guys like Nesbitt and Washington throwing the ball. I guess the real question would be: how good would the passing game need to be for an option offense to succeed in the NFL? With the defense's focus being on the run game, the windows are bigger/more single coverage/etc in an option offense than a pro-style offense. Would Tyrod Taylor, who is not quite accurate enough to run a pro-style system in the NFL, be accurate enough to consistently execute passes from an option system? My guess is yes.

So if you can overspend at non-QB positions due to your QB cap hit being small AND get star-level production from your QB, I think it could be a genius move.
Click to expand...
And if not, of course, there is always the alternative result.
 
AE 87

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,030
Minawreck said:
Of you run the option as an NFL organization you limit yourself in almost all of the offensive talent through free agency. You would have to be 100% in the draft day. I say this because no agent is going to let his player play in a system that would put him at a (perceived or not) competetive disadvantage at joining any other team. You'd be left with old vets trying to hang on and castoffs in terms of Free Agents building your depth. Is the option able to overcome that? Maybe, but no owner will take on that risk.
Click to expand...

Good summary of what's been said.
 
vamosjackets

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
Featured Member
Messages
2,156
Free agents will go wherever they get paid to go. Money and winning are the only motivations in the NFL. If I'm a free agent OL or WR and the option team is going to pay me more, that's where I'm going.
 
forensicbuzz

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
9,038
Location
North Shore, Chicago
With the size and speed of the pro players, the QB's would get murdered, in my opinion. They just move too fast and are too heavy (a little mv for those interested), that the QB's wouldn't last. The OLB or DE would key and crush the QB about 5 times before he sent up a little white flag. You'd see an aweful high percentage of gives to the B-Back.

You'd get a DC looking at the option and saying "I know how to take care of that," and after 4 or 5 crushing blows to the QB as he's pitching it, the OC would change or run out of QBs.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
GTNavyNuke said:
Great, trade 15 yards for reducing the QB effectiveness a little or a lot. Good trade for the D.
Click to expand...
Yep, and by the way, the NFL has ruled that was not an illegal hit and there should not have been a penalty. If they are going to carry out a fake, and it seemed he was, then they are fair game. Or targets.
 
forensicbuzz

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
9,038
Location
North Shore, Chicago
ponder6168 said:
So you think the defense should do late hits on drop back QB's because the 15 yard penalty is a good trade-off to reduce the QB effectiveness?
Click to expand...
If that's a legit question, then you probably need to adjust your sarcasm meter.

Option QB's will get crushed as often as the defense thinks they can legally get away with it. As @Skeptic said, if they're carrying out a fake or pitch at the last moment, then there's nothing illegal about hitting the QB, and hard.
 
ponder6168

ponder6168

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
17
forensicbuzz said:
With the size and speed of the pro players, the QB's would get murdered, in my opinion. They just move too fast and are too heavy (a little mv for those interested), that the QB's wouldn't last. The OLB or DE would key and crush the QB about 5 times before he sent up a little white flag. You'd see an aweful high percentage of gives to the B-Back.

You'd get a DC looking at the option and saying "I know how to take care of that," and after 4 or 5 crushing blows to the QB as he's pitching it, the OC would change or run out of QBs.
Click to expand...
Why did they not do that during Tebow's season?
 
ponder6168

ponder6168

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
17
forensicbuzz said:
If that's a legit question, then you probably need to adjust your sarcasm meter.

Option QB's will get crushed as often as the defense thinks they can legally get away with it. As @Skeptic said, if they're carrying out a fake or pitch at the last moment, then there's nothing illegal about hitting the QB, and hard.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on legal hits, but I was responding to the statement that the 15 yard penalty was a good trade off. If that is true for an option QB why would it not be true for a regular QB? Plus, there are lots of QBs who get crushed 4 or 5 times a game while passing the ball in an unprotected position without throwing up the white flag. And most of those QB's aren't as big and strong as the QBs you would use for an option.
 
forensicbuzz

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
9,038
Location
North Shore, Chicago
ponder6168 said:
I agree with you on legal hits, but I was responding to the statement that the 15 yard penalty was a good trade off. If that is true for an option QB why would it not be true for a regular QB? Plus, there are lots of QBs who get crushed 4 or 5 times a game while passing the ball in an unprotected position without throwing up the white flag. And most of those QB's aren't as big and strong as the QBs you would use for an option.
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about 4-5 times a game, I'm talking 4-5 times in a row.

Option QB's are typically smaller and more agile than the "pro-style" QB's. Tebow is built like a LB, but most others are smaller or more slight of build.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
ponder6168 said:
I agree with you on legal hits, but I was responding to the statement that the 15 yard penalty was a good trade off. If that is true for an option QB why would it not be true for a regular QB? Plus, there are lots of QBs who get crushed 4 or 5 times a game while passing the ball in an unprotected position without throwing up the white flag. And most of those QB's aren't as big and strong as the QBs you would use for an option.
Click to expand...
I am just guessing but that guess would be that there are players, Suh for one, and teams, the Saints for one, who would in a heartbeat trade 15 yards to KO a starting QB. They'd consider it the cost of doing business. Might even go the NBA route and sub in a player from down at the end of the bench to make hit. I know, sounds cynical.
 
ponder6168

ponder6168

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
17
forensicbuzz said:
I'm not talking about 4-5 times a game, I'm talking 4-5 times in a row.

Option QB's are typically smaller and more agile than the "pro-style" QB's. Tebow is built like a LB, but most others are smaller or more slight of build.
Click to expand...
It is harder to get free shots on option QBs than a lot of people think. We always had that plan when we played OU when I was at Missouri but it was easier said than done. But you may be right. Also I don't know why you couldn't find more Tebow size option QB's if you needed them (Collin Klein from K-State a couple of years ago was 225). I would think you could carry 4 QB's and 4 receivers instead of 3 QBs and 6 receivers like teams do now. You could have a couple of speed guys and a couple of bigger guys. Again, you may be right you couldn't keep QB's healthy, but the one time it was at least partially tried with Tebow he finished the season.

On the idea of getting free hits a coaching friend of mine went to a coaching clinic where the Detroit Lions offensive line coach was going over their zone blocking scheme. One of the high school coaches noticed a defender wasn't blocked and asked the coach about it. He said that was Berry's man, meaning they counted on Sander's making one man miss. Some of these smaller guys are hard to get a clean hit on. I am old enough to remember when the shotgun wouldn't work, the run & shoot wouldn't work and the West Coast offense wouldn't work (you had to establish the running game first) and nobody thinks that now. Of course the issue is if you are the coach who tries to run the option and it doesn't work you have lost your one chance to be a head coach on trying something different and most coaches don't want to take that risk.
 
AE 87

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,030
@forensicbuzz has a point. Just because those who said the same thing about the BCS AQ level now look foolish doesn't mean the same reasoning pushed up a level with no data to support it is foolish.
 
Top