Ok Brilliant Engineers....

[first&ten]

I apologize ahead of time for the military analogy, but I really think it's the most apropos.

I think we as fans sometimes confuse strategy and tactics. In terms of program building, performance on the field falls mostly under tactics. The reality is that we need a change in strategy if we wish to ever actually compete yearly for championships. Schools build programs by investing heavily in the programs. If you look at all the recent championship contenders, you will see programs who have continuously reinvested in their programs. They constantly build/improve facilities, hire top end coaches, pay big time money to assistants, and maximize recruiting staffs. They stamp their logo on anything that sells, and don't really care if it's the wrong color, much less the wrong shade of the right color. As long as fans are buying it, they don't really care. They pour into the fan experience, and build lifetime fans through their efforts. They ensure their schools have majors for athletes, that athletes actually want to major in.

In CPJ, we have a tactician. Through his coaching and offensive scheme, we can win individual battles along the way, but we are still losing the overall war. Beating an FSU in 2015, winning the occasional uga game, downing Clemson here and there, will not change the course of either our program or theirs.

In order to change our program, we need to understand that several things, but not necessarily all of them listed below, need to happen, and it needs to happen soon, before the college landscape leaves us too far behind to ever make up real ground.

1. We need money injected into our program. Stanford built their program with the help of a $270,000,000.00 endowment solely denoted for athletics programs.
2. We need to hire the absolute best assistants and coordinators money can buy, and pay them so well that they don't get poached easily.
3. We need to hire at least 8 more recruiting staff, and preferably 12 more.
4. We need to add a few majors, and get rid of the calculus requirement for majors that really don't need it.
5. We need to pour into our facilities, and cater to the whims of 18 year olds, no matter how "silly" it seems to us old fogies...
6. We need to generate buzz for the program by building an identity for ourselves that is appealing to the masses. Oregon did it through uniforms, GT needs to find a new identity soon.
7. We need to commit to filling the stadium every game. I don't care if this means cutting the price of tickets in half. This needs to be a priority. You can't build a fan base with empty seats in the stadium.

I am sure there are other strategies we need to look at, but I think I have made my point. If we want to see change, we need to understand the true cost, and agree that there can be no sacred cows. Everything must be on the table. We also need to understand the difference between tactics and strategy. We can hire a new HC, or DC, but unless we commit the money for top end, as per point 2, we are just changing tactics, not strategy. We can build/renovate a new locker room, but unless we immediately say, what next, we are not changing our strategy.

Now, before I hear all the rebuttal, I understand the reticence to change certain aspects of our program/Institution. I am not necessarily in favor of massive change just to be competitive at that level on a yearly basis. I, like many of you here, love GT precisely because of who we are, not who I wish we were. I also know that all of these items might not be easily achievable. I just see the writing on the wall, and I think we are just being willfully ignorant if we expect to continue doing what we are doing and get different results.

In addition, there is one other thing that can help us, but is out of our direct control: The ACC needs to become as "relevant" as the SEC/B1G. (We can argue ad nauseum about W/L records and head to head results, but the recruits preferences paint a different picture) We need not only Clemson, but FSU, Miami, VT, and a couple of other schools to become consistent winners. We also really need ND to join the ACC. The TV exposure that would ensue would help tremendously. Players want to play in the spotlight, and adding NDs TV deal (I'd let them keep it, with the caveat that they play 4 of their 12 games on the ACC network, as they use the money generated solely for academic uses) to the current ACC deal only helps us.

Anyways, this may be TL DR for some, but given the state of malaise that a certain portion of our posters are in, I felt the need to give my $0.02 worth. I will be in my seats for the VT and uga games regardless, and I hope that you guys will be there too.

You're right on target. Now if we could only get the decision makers involved changes could occur.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

IIRC I used Stanford, Northwestern, Vandy, Michigan and maybe one more school (Notre Dame?). I thought it was a pretty good cross section of comparable schools

Most of the schools that closely compare academically don’t even play D1 football, much less P5.

 

[OldJacketFan]

Most of the schools that closely compare academically don’t even play D1 football, much less P5.

Which is why I didn't bother to look at them, the schools I used are known academic universities, are D1 and have had success in athletics. Never thought that they were apples to apples though.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

And stuff I've seen on Pay sites says that Stansbury is trying to do just that. I really think Stansbury is the answer to our problems. Looks like he feels the same as all of us.

I think the world of Stansbury, and I believe he will give it his best effort to improve in that arena, I just don't see it happening fast enough to make much of a difference.

What we need is a drastic increase in the near future to attempt to level the playing field. We don't need millions, we need tens of millions at a minimum, and more likely a hundred million or more just to catch up in the facilities/amenities arms race.

Somewhere along the line, we have done a poor job of recruiting our own students to be a part of the athletics culture at GT, and they make up a hefty portion of our millionaire population. This is an area we need to correct ASAP.

 

[Animal02]

I think the world of Stansbury, and I believe he will give it his best effort to improve in that arena, I just don't see it happening fast enough to make much of a difference.

What we need is a drastic increase in the near future to attempt to level the playing field. We don't need millions, we need tens of millions at a minimum, and more likely a hundred million or more just to catch up in the facilities/amenities arms race.

Somewhere along the line, we have done a poor job of recruiting our own students to be a part of the athletics culture at GT, and they make up a hefty portion of our millionaire population. This is an area we need to correct ASAP.

Not going to happen when a night homecoming game is not even close to a sellout, and you have angry season ticket holders threatening to sell their UGA game tickets to UGA fans because we lost by 2 touchdowns to the reigning National Champs / top 10 ranked team

 

[iceeater1969]

Most of the schools that closely compare academically don’t even play D1 football, much less P5.

In 70s As a recruiter for Exxon, hired engr from Carnegie Mellon, Rensalier(sic) poly technical. U are right - they don't play football but they sure were well recieved into Exxon research. The gt guys were not received as pure lab type but were as well received as well rounded and used to hard work. I got one gt guy to go into pipeline and he was very successful as a subject matter expert. The word was that smaller school produces engineer engineer engineer types and gt/ Purdue brings engineer/ manager type who can translate.
While in houston I meet many tech grads who were in management (All them loved gt football)

I believe our football program being seen as "competitive" materially contributes to the credibility of our school. Against p 5 Attendance- showing up against giants leaves one impression but being competitive leaves another.

If our coach has resources that are kind of close to enough, he will be highly competitive.
This is the legacy of tech men, they find away to win. Our brand is so strong in texas.

We ARE doing so much better. The defense has all kinds of young talent!

Let's all do some little thing we each can do and all push ($) harder to help coach show this on a national stage.

As Jerry says Go Jackets

 

[Animal02]

IIRC I used Stanford, Northwestern, Vandy, Michigan and maybe one more school (Notre Dame?). I thought it was a pretty good cross section of comparable schools

Comparable?
Undergraduate degrees at NW
African American Studieshttp://www.africanstudies.northwestern.edu/undergraduate/major.html
American Studies
Anthropology
Applied Mathematics
Art History
Art Theory and Practice
Asian American Studies
Asian Languages and Cultures
Asian Studies
Biological Scienceshttp://sps.northwestern.edu/program-areas/undergraduate/biological-sciences/index.php
Biomedical Eng
Chemical Eng
Chemistry
Civil Eng
Classics
Cognitive Science
Combined Eng and Communication Program
Combined Music & Eng Program
Communication Studieshttp://sps.northwestern.edu/program-areas/undergraduate/communication-studies/index.php
Communication Systems
Comparative Literary Studies
Computer Eng
Computer Science (BS) / BA-CS
Dance
Earth and Planetary Sciences
Economicshttp://sps.northwestern.edu/program-areas/undergraduate/economics/index.php
Electrical Eng
English: Creative Writing
English: LiteratureEnglish: Writing
Environmental Engineering
Environmental Sciences
French
Gender and Sexuality Studies
Geography
German
Global Health Studies
History
Honors Program in Medical Education
Human Communication Sciences
Human Development and Psychological Services
Humanities (part-time)
Industrial Eng
Information Systems (part-time)
Integrated Engineering Studies
Integrated Science Program
International Studies (adjunct major)
Italian
Jewish Studies
Journalism
Latina and Latino Studies
Learning and Organizational Change
Legal Studies
Linguistics
Manufacturing & Design Eng
Materials Science and Eng(BA) / (BS)
Mathematical Methods in the Social Sciences
Mathematicshttp://sps.northwestern.edu/program-areas/undergraduate/mathematics/index.php
Mechanical Engineering
Middle East North African Studies
Music Performance: Brass /Jazz Studies / Percussion / Piano / Strings / Voice & Opera / Woodwinds
Music Studies: Composition and Music Technology / Music Education / Musicology /Music Theory and Cognition
Neuroscience
Northwestern Undergraduate Premedical Scholars Program
Organization Behavior
Performance Studies
Philosophy
Physics and Astronomy
Political Science
Psychologyhttp://sps.northwestern.edu/program-areas/undergraduate/psychology/index.php
Radio/Television/ FilmRadio/Television/ Film
Religious Studies
Russian and East European Studies
Russian Language, Literature, and Culture
Science in Human Culture
Secondary Teaching
Social Policy
Social Sciences
Sociology
Spanish
Statistics
Theatre

 

[OldJacketFan]

Comparable?
Undergraduate degrees at NW


You're missing my point, not that the schools I looked at are STEM centric carbon copy of Tech but Universities that are known for the high academic standards and reasonably successful athletic programs as opposed to factory schools.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Not going to happen when a night homecoming game is not even close to a sellout, and you have angry season ticket holders threatening to sell their UGA game tickets to UGA fans because we lost by 2 touchdowns to the reigning National Champs / top 10 ranked team

I am not saying it's realistic, but it is what is necessary.

 

[iceeater1969]

Course 1
...sell my uga tickets to a dawg.
Course 2
... send my tickets to the asst coach whose position has the biggest talent deficit .

What percent of those choosing 1 actually conceive of sending the money to gtaa?

 

[Animal02]

Academic rigors in African Studies and Communication.?
It is not the the academic standards......it is the field of choices. I would hazard a guess that most kids have no interest in engineering and other Stem majors.

 

[OldJacketFan]

Academic rigors in African Studies and Communication.?
It is not the the academic standards......it is the field of choices. I would hazard a guess that most kids have no interest in engineering and other Stem majors.

You're still missing the point, all of the schools I looked at are members of the Association of American Universities and as such are one of 60 such universities in the US. They award almost half the doctorates and 55% of this doctorates in science and engineering. In other words the top academic schools in the U.S. Using them and the total majors they offer in comparison to the majors offered at Tech was done to illustrate how tight the number of potential SAs Tech can realistically even recruit.

 

[Animal02]

You're still missing the point, all of the schools I looked at are members of the Association of American Universities and as such are one of 60 such universities in the US. They award almost half the doctorates and 55% of this doctorates in science and engineering. In other words the top academic schools in the U.S. Using them and the total majors they offer in comparison to the majors offered at Tech was done to illustrate how tight the number of potential SAs Tech can realistically even recruit.

You are missing my point.....It doesn't matter if half the degrees are engineering....NW for example has about 100 degree programs compared to about 35 for Tech. A school like Michigan State has a 135. It is not the academic rigors that is the primary limiting factor ....it is the narrow degree offering. You cannot compare schools that offer communications and theatre degree with Tech despite those schools grAnting half their degrees in engineering.

 

[OldJacketFan]

You are missing my point.....It doesn't matter if half the degrees are engineering....NW for example has about 100 degree programs compared to about 35 for Tech. A school like Michigan State has a 135. It is not the academic rigors that is the primary limiting factor ....it is the narrow degree offering. You cannot compare schools that offer communications and theatre degree with Tech despite those schools grAnting half their degrees in engineering.

In some ways I think we're saying the same thing in different ways, my point was that even schools that are academic peers in many ways Tech has challenges that no other school faces when it comes to recruiting

 

[COJacket]

Most of the schools that closely compare academically don’t even play D1 football, much less P5.

To Cheese's point and Animals:
We’re No. 1
Georgia Tech has been named the top public university in the U.S. (and No. 11 in the world) for engineering and technology.
The only 3 US schools ahead of us are Stanford, Caltech, MIT. Caltech and MIT do not play football and they both have limited majors. Stanford the only school that does play football has a sh**load of majors. It is great to say we are #1 !!!!!!

 

[FightWinDrink]

To Cheese's point and Animals:
We’re No. 1
Georgia Tech has been named the top public university in the U.S. (and No. 11 in the world) for engineering and technology.
The only 3 US schools ahead of us are Stanford, Caltech, MIT. Caltech and MIT do not play football and they both have limited majors. Stanford the only school that does play football has a sh**load of majors. It is great to say we are #1 !!!!!!

WOOOOOOWWWW the disrespect!!! MIT went 10-1 in football in 2014! (in D3)

 

[knoxjacket]

With all the same restrictions and challenges (if not more) we brought in Jon Dwyer, Derrick Morgan, and Morgan Burnett in the same season.

It clearly can be done.

 

[jgtengineer]

With all the same restrictions and challenges (if not more) we brought in Jon Dwyer, Derrick Morgan, and Morgan Burnett in the same season.

It clearly can be done.

Actually no we didn't, we didn't have APR to worry about and the first year we did chan managed to get us on probation. Dwyer left in 3 ( and never returned) So did Burnett i think. Some schools (fsu) don't give a damn about that but we do. The hill could not have us on academic probation again ( we got there with ol'leary too).

The unfortunate truth is the 2007 class was very top heavy. Outside of the stars of the class it was full of 2 star players. Also Nesbitt would have been another ball in a Nix offense.

 

[GTech63]

-------
Our brand is so strong in texas.--------

Wake F. seems to be recruiting Texas but we don't seem to be. My guess is because of size of recruiting budget and number of recruiters. Also already heavily recruited by Texas schools and surrounding state schools. But Wake seems to have added a number from Texas and are getting more competitive.

Could alumni be used to identify talent through out the 50 states (especially outside the SE)? Have 15 or so volunteer knowledgeable ex players to cover a 2 to 4 state area and alums like myself could obtain and send potential prospects info to them to screen. We who identify potential SA make initial contact with coaches and see if there is an interest in GT. If there is, obtain basic information on academics, their physical capabilities, their moral attributes. Would they go to evaluation camp at their own transportation expense? With the right answers, they get an invite. It would be like a volunteer scout network.

We need to be innovative and with some training, coordination, and volunteer commitments I think it could be effective. Frankly I hope this is being done, to some degree now, in places like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Louisiana.

As I write this, another thought is whether it is illegal to set up an evaluation weekend in some of these states and open it up to potential SAs to come and get connected. If not illegal it could done with this proposed scout network. I know we must have some GT alum HS coaches as possible volunteers.

 

[first&ten]

Actually no we didn't, we didn't have APR to worry about and the first year we did chan managed to get us on probation. Dwyer left in 3 ( and never returned) So did Burnett i think. Some schools (fsu) don't give a damn about that but we do. The hill could not have us on academic probation again ( we got there with ol'leary too).

The unfortunate truth is the 2007 class was very top heavy. Outside of the stars of the class it was full of 2 star players. Also Nesbitt would have been another ball in a Nix offense.

All 3 left with a year of eligibility remaining when PJ was hired. They saw the writing on the wall regardingthe TO.