Offensive Scheme Q&A Thread

jchens_GT

jchens_GT

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I posted this on another thread, but could anyone share more thoughts on the AJC Interview with CPJ that said we had more success passing from under center in 2013 than when throwing out of the pistol or diamond? What do you guys think the reason for this is? In our scheme, how does the passing game fit in and what makes it most successful?

Here are some of my thoughts from the other thread:

I would be curious to know more and her other people's thoughts about your last point as well. I agree that it seems like we ran out of the gun most often on obvious passing downs. I don't know if a case could be made for or against running more from under center, but I do think a case could be made that we are more successful when passing out of play action. This is what I believe our system and style of play is better suited for. I bet that we aren't the only run heavy team that struggles more throwing the ball on passing downs than we do on "regular" downs. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve that, but I think we are better off when we catch teams off guard with play action.

I don't want to stir up another shotgun vs under center debate. I am more just trying to think through why we had more success throwing under center (This may be more appropriate for the Offensive Scheme Q&A thread). I am up for whatever formation puts us in a position to make plays and score points. If those two things are happening, I couldn't care less about formations. Touchdowns and big plays are fun to watch, whether you run the air raid or the wishbone.
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gtg936g

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My guess would be that from under center the BB took away one of the pass rushers (the guy that had the dive) because the D did not know it was a pass. The ABs also froze the LBs who were focused on not getting blocked instead of penetrating the line to rush the QB. Robbie was good at faking the LBs into thinking he was gonna block him so they ran past him to what they thought was the play side. Then Robbie would be all alone in the middle of the field.
 
AE 87

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My recollection, without rechecking, was that neither Chamberlain nor Roberts were as good at pass blocking for the gun as Bailey.
 

stylee

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Probably due to:
(a) we threw more from the pistol on 3rd down
(b) threw it with the aim of reaching a first down on 3rd and 5+
(c) defenses knew we were throwing

There might be some other things - difficulty with snap, less rhythm on dropback footwork, offensive linemen not as accustomed to stance in pistol, and so forth.
I like the pistol for the passing game, but there are some definite advantages to throwing from under center.

I, for one, think Justin was much better running the option stuff from the pistol than Vad was in 2013. Vad's reads weren't great (they weren't terrible either) but he mainly had issues attacking the area he was supposed to attack when he pulled it. Same problem he had under center.

There's no magic pill; we're going to struggle a little bit throwing the ball out the gate. What Vad showed early on was the willingness to let it rip deep - something Tevin was tentative with, for obvious reasons. Vad lost some of that in 2013, but not completely. To me, Justin was hesitant to bomb it out there. Being 1/3 for 70 yards is sometimes/often better than being 3/3 for 30 yards. Justin needs to be able to establish a credible deep ball threat. I'm not saying he can't or won't - just that the sample size isn't big enough to draw a lot of conclusions from right now.
 
ATL1

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@stylee What make the diamond effective for other teams but not for GT? Would be the same issues you mentioned or is there more to it than that?
 

stylee

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What teams do you see running the formation?
What would count as running it "effectively"?

I think not being able to run option stuff well from it made it difficult for us. Part of that, IMO, was on our QB not running very aggressively.
 
ATL1

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stylee said:
What teams do you see running the formation?
What would count as running it "effectively"?

I think not being able to run option stuff well from it made it difficult for us. Part of that, IMO, was on our QB not running very aggressively.
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BYU runs it effectively
Oklahoma St
OSU
just off the top of the head run the diamond formation effectively.
 

bravejason

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The question I have is what does the diamond do that the flexbone doesn't? Also, a desire for more diamond seems inconsistent with a desire for more passing.

To me, the diamond is literally just a few steps away from the wishbone and I can only imagine the uproar that would occur if CPJ announced that the team was going to run more wishbone.
 

Josh H

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I thought I'd ask this question here, for the gurus who follow our offense:

When Tech is under center in an obvious passing situation. we normally line up in a balanced set. We'll then send an A-back across the formation in motion to create a trips look. This is to support the Run and Shoot Packages (60 Go, Switch, etc). The only running play I have ever seen out of this motion set is a B-back draw (which Dwyer was amazing with). If I, a fairly dumb college football observer, can tell that we pass 95% of the time out of this look, what does that do for the defensive coordinators and the other team's defense?

Second question: How does our passing offense out of the Shotgun and Pistol differ from our under center passing offense (Run and Shoot)? Are we open to more passing concepts, or is it still basically the Run and Shoot?
 

danny daniel

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I am long frustrated with our lack of passing performance in situations where we have to pass and the defense knows we have to pass. Our regular offense can hurt you with the pass in "run situation" but time and time again we fail to produce in third and long, at the end of the half, or at the end of the game when we are behind and have to throw. Our problems in this area are well known.

We need something else besides business as usual, maybe some thinking outside the box in our pass game. Here goes one such out of the box thought. (Maybe you have a better thought.)

Let's use our under utilized talent. Start with our best passer, T Griffin. Use our talented two young wide receivers A Messick and R Jeune. All three will likely not get much playing time otherwise and this will give them experience, accelerated improvement and a sense of contribution. Use B J Bostic as our slot receiver as his best talent is receiving and he will be under utilized as an A Back otherwise. Use our best blockers in the backfield on each side of Ty in the shotgun for added protection and a safety valve to each flat, probably S Days and M Connors. Substitute RTackle. From our best coaching minds pick (say three) pass plays and let this group have a little practice time together each day. I do not believe they will do any worse than our past (and present/future path) and just might do much better! I know this will be a big boost in morale for Ty, Antonio, Ricky, BJ, and Matt. Heck, lets use Corey Dennis as a backup and get a pass to him for a change as some reward for years of blocking. Of course this group would come in only in "have to throw" virtually desperate situations. For me this would be added excitement and HOPE. Otherwise: CPJ do his thing.
 

stylee

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Josh H said:
I thought I'd ask this question here, for the gurus who follow our offense:

When Tech is under center in an obvious passing situation. we normally line up in a balanced set. We'll then send an A-back across the formation in motion to create a trips look. This is to support the Run and Shoot Packages (60 Go, Switch, etc). The only running play I have ever seen out of this motion set is a B-back draw (which Dwyer was amazing with). If I, a fairly dumb college football observer, can tell that we pass 95% of the time out of this look, what does that do for the defensive coordinators and the other team's defense?

Second question: How does our passing offense out of the Shotgun and Pistol differ from our under center passing offense (Run and Shoot)? Are we open to more passing concepts, or is it still basically the Run and Shoot?
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(1)
The "old" RnS reason for sending the guy across was to help diagnose coverage pre-snap.
Does a defender move across the formation with the motion slot? Probably a Man coverage.
Does a safety rotate down to the Trips side? Probably a Cover 3 or Cover-1/Man. Etc.

Defenses got more sophisticated after the early success of the RNS in the mid/late-80s and RnS teams were less able to determine coverage based just on pre-snap motion. This led to a lot of RnS guys either abandoning the Rip/Liz motion or really paring down its usage.

However, one advantage of our run-heavy approach is that it simplifies secondaries. As a result, the motion is able to give our QB some hints about coverage that he might not otherwise get in a pass-heavy offense.

(2)
We don't run just the RnS from under center. Our primary passing plays are still playaction passes that aren't traditional RnS plays. However, when we do run dropback passing plays under center, we do run a fair amount of RnS concepts; "Go" and "Choice" are probably most common. They're not the majority but they are significant.

Our Pistol/Gun stuff has probably about the same proportion of RnS plays as under center. I've seen us run "Go" and "Choice" and "Switch" from the pistol.
 
ATL1

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@stylee Are there any other running plays designed for the bback beside the dive. Do we do traps, counters, run off tackle, ect? I rarely see our guards or tackles pulling ? How much of this is done
 
ibeattetris

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ATL1 said:
@stylee Are there any other running plays designed for the bback beside the dive. Do we do traps, counters, run off tackle, ect? I rarely see our guards or tackles pulling ? How much of this is done
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Off the top of my head we do rocket toss counter to the B Back, B Back draw (Dwyer was a beast with this play), and B Back option. I also thought I saw some designed hand offs with the A-back as lead blocker last year.
 
AE 87

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@ATL1 , I'm not @stylee , but the answer is yes. First, as I understand it, there are two types of dive plays in our options, inside and outside veer, which are differently blocked. Also, we run those as called gives with option motion that may have different blocking as well. We also run traps and counter traps as well as the speed option with the B-Back as the pitch man. Hopefully, @stylee will correct this if in error.
 
dressedcheeseside

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AE 87 said:
@ATL1 , I'm not @stylee , but the answer is yes. First, as I understand it, there are two types of dive plays in our options, inside and outside veer, which are differently blocked. Also, we run those as called gives with option motion that may have different blocking as well. We also run traps and counter traps as well as the speed option with the B-Back as the pitch man. Hopefully, @stylee will correct this if in error.
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Haven't seen a decent speed option since JD or midline keeper since Josh.
 
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