Offensive Scheme Q&A Thread

[dressedcheeseside]

Here's the play I was referencing, @GTYellowJacket12 .
Instead of a fake dive to the "triple option" side, Nesbitt actually gives and then carries out a fake counter option away from the fake triple.
The guard still pulls, but instead of "logging" the defensive end (getting outside and blocking him down, opening the perimeter up), the guard lead blocks and kicks that guy out, opening up a lane for Dwyer up the gut.

The safeties and linebackers pursue outside, thinking they've diagnosed a counter.

On a side note, I like what Oregon does with "false flag" pulling guards - guards pulling away from the playside to break keys. I'm not sure how translatable that is to under center, though.

Not only does the pulling guard do an amazing job, but so does the play side guard who blocks the MLB out of the play. If he doesn't do that, the play goes for 5 yards instead of a td.

The OL really have a thanksless job. They get waaaaay too much blame when plays fail and never enough credit when plays succeed. 95% of football fans only see JD and think that's why the play worked. I bet Laskey and/or Sims scores on that exact same play if you sub him in for JD.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Not a question, more of a comment. All of the examples shown are from the glory days of CPJ here. The cut blocking is really effective when you hit someone. Our problem has been execution the past few seasons. I can't tell you the last game where I didn't see one of our OL just fall over in an attempt to cut someone. I realize it's hard to practice because you don't want to hurt your own players but we have to get better at it or just stand up and block. I realize you only need the block for a short period of time until the option is past you. In my mind this is even more reason to stay on your feet against elite guys. We're just trying to slow them down. VPI game last year was frustrating... Of course if the 4 guys in the backfield are more decisive and quicker to execute maybe that guy falling into space hits his mark because the D guy can't stunt and wait on him to hit the ground to get around him.

What's different now than then? Coach Bo is gone.

 

[slugboy]

What's different now than then? Coach Bo is gone.

Thought he was a backfield coach. Is it execution there or on the OL?

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Thought he was a backfield coach. Is it execution there or on the OL?

I may be thinking of the wrong guy. Who's the OL coach who left? We used to have two of them.

 

[mqpayne]

I may be thinking of the wrong guy. Who's the OL coach who left? We used to have two of them.

Spencer. Rad threw him under the bus and the OL hasn't been as good since.

 

[mqpayne]

I may be thinking of the wrong guy. Who's the OL coach who left? We used to have two of them.

Spencer. Rad threw him under the bus and the OL hasn't been as good since.

 

[mqpayne]

Spencer. Rad threw him under the bus. Wish he was back.

 

[Dustman]

I realize you only need the block for a short period of time until the option is past you. In my mind this is even more reason to stay on your feet against elite guys. We're just trying to slow them down.

I feel the same way Jason.

 

[alaguy]

We seem to have developed a reputation of ineptitude in our 2 minute offense. I personally think we have more of a red zone problem in the 2 minute. My personal point of view is that we have largely been able to move the ball fairly well in the 2 minute drill. We just have failed to punch those drives in for scores too often. It may be fair, at least in my mind, to say we struggle in obvious passing downs when we have a short field to work in. Does this opinion jive with what you guys have seen or am I alone on a desert isle?

that my thinking,
we don't have the long field to stretch the def and we haven't the efficiency in pass game to work in short space

 

[GTYellowJacket12]

Looking at the "Should Autry (the frosh) be a WR?" thread got me thinking about an old question I've had since I've started watching CPJ at tech: Why we never send out one of the ABs into the flat based on pre-snap reads so that we can get a fast AB type (like Autry) mismatched against a LB? It seems like we can still run basic read option plays out of this formation so our offense would retain its core principles yet we would have the advantage of a built in mismatch every down (AB vs LB), unless the defense goes to nickel and if we get them to go to nickel we can run to the nickel corner side since they're notoriously bad tacklers.

Would this be too difficult to implement? It seems to me like this variation adds a vertical threat without sacrificing the knowledge of basic reads our QB has. What are the advantages/disadvantages to this wrinkle?

 

[stylee]

There's a few angles to look at with the "AB to the flats" thing.

Firstly, are we talking about a playaction concept or a non-playaction concept?

Secondly, I think one of the main things is that you don't account for all the defenders, even if you beat the OLB on the out/flat. That is, there's still a free safety running the alley in a Cover 1 scheme, a strong safety hitting the flats in a Cover 3 scheme, and a cornerback sitting there waiting v. a Cover 2 scheme.

With a triple option play, or a rocket toss, or a double option, you've got linemen or ABs or BBs leading the way on these guys. If the concept you're suggesting is just "have the AB beat the OLB to the flat", you're requiring the AB to beat the OLB one-on-one in a pass route, and then to make another defender miss one-on-one. While we may have an expectation that our guys should ALWAYS make their guys miss, that expectation is unrealistic; the defenders' job is to tackle people.

I don't think throwing to the AB on a flat route is a universally bad idea. We already have the AB hitting the flat on our "Go" play out of Trips, which I'll diagram later in this thread. I think a playaction flat route to the playside AB could also be quite effective versus man/Cover-1 defenses if we can influence the safety with a post or inside-seam/Switch block by the outside WR. One last application would be as a part of a dropback slant-flat concept: outside WR runs a slant, AB runs a flat, QB reads the flat defender.


The main question is just: what defensive "problem" would X be an answer for that we don't already have an answer(s) for?

 

[slugboy]

Looking at the "Should Autry (the frosh) be a WR?" thread got me thinking about an old question I've had since I've started watching CPJ at tech: Why we never send out one of the ABs into the flat based on pre-snap reads so that we can get a fast AB type (like Autry) mismatched against a LB? It seems like we can still run basic read option plays out of this formation so our offense would retain its core principles yet we would have the advantage of a built in mismatch every down (AB vs LB), unless the defense goes to nickel and if we get them to go to nickel we can run to the nickel corner side since they're notoriously bad tacklers.

Would this be too difficult to implement? It seems to me like this variation adds a vertical threat without sacrificing the knowledge of basic reads our QB has. What are the advantages/disadvantages to this wrinkle?

It might already be in our playbook. For example, checking to a WR hitch pass when the CB has a 10-yard cushion is in our playbook--Vad just threw that into the stands against Ole Miss.

Against Miami, I think it would turn into a pick-6.

 

[iceeater1969]

Not sure that spencer is good ol guy but he was trying to recruit in Texas - but could not get powers to be to really commit to make it a priority. With coaches trying to coach and recruit with little full time support , I guess it is no wonder they shut it off to win in Georgia. We had a special case ( my son is high school coach and rb was under radar kid who went to Purdue - later transferred back to lower level school in Arkansas. ). If recruiting long distance we Really need to build relations with high school coaches so they can help player keep motivated to stay in school. My son also coached Byron bell of Carolina cougars who wanted to quit football at university of New Mexico but the two coaches convinced him to stay. Todd help me buy sweet tickets for orange bowl! I will call gt athletics and see what we can do.

 

[awbuzz]

It might already be in our playbook. For example, checking to a WR hitch pass when the CB has a 10-yard cushion is in our playbook--Vad just threw that into the stands against Ole Miss.

Against Miami, I think it would turn into a pick-6.

Our very first offensive play of the game, IIRC.

 

[ATL1]

Any short passing plays that get players in space? Similarly as how Clemson or Oregon run those quick hitters in the passing game that can break for long yards.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Any short passing plays that get players in space? Similarly as how Clemson or Oregon run those quick hitters in the passing game that can break for long yards.

Smoke routes, quick slants, etc. We have plenty of these plays in the play book. Often these are second or third read check downs when the deep routes are covered. Our receivers will also cut routes short when the db is giving big cushions.

 

[ATL1]

Smoke routes, quick slants, etc. We have plenty of these plays in the play book. Often these are second or third read check downs when the deep routes are covered. Our receivers will also cut routes short when the db is giving big cushions.

Can you show me a smoke route in which the QB threw a short pass within 3 sec and the receiver broke for a long run. I don't remember seeing one in our offense. What about bubble screens?

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

D. Thomas took several smoke routes to the house. It's the quick pass to WR on sideline. We throw it when db gives a big cushion.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I've seen us throw deep go routes where QB makes pass 3 seconds after the snap though. Thomas had a 88 yd td reception vs Duke that fits that criteria.

 

[ATL1]

I guess I'm referring to the short passing routes seen here, in this Sammy Watkins highlight clip;