Offense and defense ACC coastal division common opponent stats

vamosjackets

vamosjackets

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ilovetheoption said:
This is why I value PPD over YPP.

YPP only matters inasmuch as it contributes to PPD.
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I think YPP can help tell the story some too, let's say if your special teams and offense were terrible and always giving the other team the shortest field in the league. Your ypp could still be pretty good but your ppd would suffer. But, I definitely see the point you and the other poster have made - your ypp could be good because you play very conservative and don't give up big plays but you allow marches for scores (bend all the way to the goalline). Turnovers play a huge role in this too. The previous GT defense is exhibit A for what you're saying.

Does the ppd stat take special teams scores (returns for TD) and turnover scores (pick six, scoop and score) into account and eliminate them? Does it do anything to take field position into account (turning it over inside your own redzone and such)?
 
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tech_wreck47

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So, our offense was at the top and our D was at the bottom? Ok, so those who said our O is just not good and blame them and not the D, could you please brake down these numbers and explain them in the context of how the O stinks and is a big issue? I’ll hang up and listen.
 

g0lftime

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Clemson and UGA overpowered our DL. We didn't have much of a chance against them last year. Teams like Duke ran a controlled quick passing offense that was ball control and possession oriented. We couldn't get turnovers and teams just kept possession. We were really bad at 3rd down with corners too far off the receivers. We didn't give up many big plays but not enough turnovers.
 
Longestday

Longestday

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@vamosjackets I did not take ST and or turnovers or field position into account. The averages could average, but an outlier team like someone who ranked 125 in ST could have stats padded.
 
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lv20gt

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tech_wreck47 said:
So, our offense was at the top and our D was at the bottom? Ok, so those who said our O is just not good and blame them and not the D, could you please brake down these numbers and explain them in the context of how the O stinks and is a big issue? I’ll hang up and listen.
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We scored 28 in regulation against UT and they scored half their regulation points off turnovers. Half their regulation possessions were 3 and outs, and we couldn't capitalize or build a lead.
We scored just 24 against Miami and that with 7 gifted points from the onside kick returned for a TD. We had 3 chances to put that game away and we punted 3 times. We had the ball 1st and 10 on the 45 with a 2 point lead and 5 minutes left. We couldn't even get in field goal range.
We scored 10 against Clemson with 7 coming in garbage time.
We scored 36 against UVA which seems good at first. Then you realize only 29 of those were offensive because of an INT return. Then you have a 14 yard TD set up by a defensive turnover, and then the offense basically giving them 9 points back because of an INT and a safety and it don't look so good. We went up 28-14 and then went INT, Punt, Punt, Punt, INT, Safety on offense. Meanwhile, after the 30 yard TD off our turnover to tie it, the defense got 4 punts (three 3 and outs and a 4 and out) and held them to a FG off a drive starting on our side of the field.
Against Duke, we got blanked in the second half completely. Defense was trash, but to act like the offense wasn't a problem is bogus.
Against UGA. 7 points.
 
ilovetheoption

ilovetheoption

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vamosjackets said:
I think YPP can help tell the story some too, let's say if your special teams and offense were terrible and always giving the other team the shortest field in the league. Your ypp could still be pretty good but your ppd would suffer. But, I definitely see the point you and the other poster have made - your ypp could be good because you play very conservative and don't give up big plays but you allow marches for scores (bend all the way to the goalline). Turnovers play a huge role in this too. The previous GT defense is exhibit A for what you're saying.

Does the ppd stat take special teams scores (returns for TD) and turnover scores (pick six, scoop and score) into account and eliminate them? Does it do anything to take field position into account (turning it over inside your own redzone and such)?
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Yes I get all that. I still think PPD is the important stat,BUT

If you really wanted the right stat it would be PPD minus the marginal expected point value of average field position difference, calculated to be how many additional points/Drive/yard saved in field position a standardized offense would be expected to score
 
Longestday

Longestday

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@lv20gt Good points... Don't compare just GT games, go look at all the games and you will see they also have these types of events. Other teams had special teams scores and turnovers and several drives in which to score on every single drive to put the game away. How many points do you think VT and Miami had due to defensive scores and special teams play versus just their offense? Would you say GT has the only defense and special teams scores?

I wonder if GT fans forget what a good defense looks like and what a normal offense looks like... You can win 14 to 7. You don't have to score >28 points to win a football game. Not every team has an average score of 28 points per game. (I do think the defense helped win games in 2017 )

Common opponent score average for offenses: Duke averaged 19.2, GT 28, Miami 24.2, Pitt 22, UNC 16.8, and VT 27.

I think you can also look at the number of opposing punts and find a similar trend that GT has the fewest punts and forced the fewest punts.

ST was ranked 125 and gave bad field position. Defense also gave bad field position. These hurt the offense and hurts your position that the O is the problem.
 
4shotB

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Longestday said:
@lv20gt These hurt the offense and hurts your position that the O is the problem.
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I don't think the poster is saying the O is THE problem. I think his point is that you have to look a little past the stats and take the position that the units cannot be totally examined in a vacuum. An offense can have a great stat line - 30 points, 450 yards of offense, 34 minutes of TOP, 0 turnovers, etc., etc. But if they have 5 consecutive 3 and out's in the 4th quarter and second half TOP is only 9 minutes with only 3 points scored, the offense (imo) DID in fact contribute to the D's issues in spite of a pretty good stat sheet. Keeping our D on the field with our depth (or perceived lack of depth due to relying too much on first-teamers depending on your point of view) is not helping the D's performance.This is a hypothetical situation but I think it illustrates his point, which I tend to agree with. I think you have to look past the stat sheet a level or two deeper.
 
boger2337

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Again Ted roofs defense is based on having an offense that will score 40 at will.

We need a defense that can get us turnovers and cause teams to be 2 and 15 or 3rd and long. Blitz that rush the QB to give us badly thrown balls to get interceptions
 

smathis30

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tech_wreck47 said:
So, our offense was at the top and our D was at the bottom? Ok, so those who said our O is just not good and blame them and not the D, could you please brake down these numbers and explain them in the context of how the O stinks and is a big issue? I’ll hang up and listen.
Click to expand...

Law of averages. If you were to look at the standard deviations as opposed to averages, you'd see why.

Not saying D isn't an issue, but the consistency of the offense last year was a big issue. They were either #1 or dead last.

As also mentioned, field position is also a big key that makes the defense look worse than it is. UVA only had 2 sustained drives over 40 yards but scored over 35 points against us, due to them starting on GT's side of the field over 2/3 of the time that game due to poor special teams and turnovers by the offense.
 
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