NY Times Story on Lack of Jameis Winston Investigation

[AE 87]

Sorry if I misread your post. My beef is not about guilt or innocence, but with the TPD and FSU's administrative attitude/priorities.

Yes, I'm assuming the facts presented in the article are accurate,why not? They are presented as facts, not opinions or commentary. Why would a reputable media outlet risk a major lawsuit by presenting easily refutable statements as facts when they are not? If they're not true, then, of course, I change my judgement on the TPD and FSU. However, the fact that a grand jury has basically called for the disbanding of the TPD it kind of backs up the facts presented in the article, don't you think?

Sarcasm, really? (do you see what I did there?) I think if you look, you'll see that most of the "facts" damaging to Winston were reported as the accuser's story, therefore not open to lawsuits.

Do you not remember the reporting surrounding the Duke Lacrosse team or George Zimmerman? You didn't answer my question whether you would want your son to go through the media circus and resulting trial because of a false accusation in order to affirm your view that there is never a situation in which rape allegations should not be pursued as guilty until proven innocent.

What are you talking about, what conclusion? The only conclusion I came to is the TPD is incompetent or doesn't care or is in cahoots with a coverup.

There is absolutely no excuse for the detective not getting the bar's surveillance video or tracking down the cab driver.

Why exactly is the article biased? Is it just because it's the NYT?

Seriously, the article simply reports her side of the story, leaves out questions about the story, mentions data (the cell phone video) but does not report that it, if it existed, refutes the accuser's side of the story. I agree that more police work should have been done, but if the story given by the TPD detectives holds any truth, I can understand why they made the wrong decision they made. Still, I disagree with people saying they believe the accuser's family and don't believe the police based on that article. It even has the woman's attorney admit that the accuser became hesitant at the time the police say she stopped cooperating.

 

[00Burdell]

It even has the woman's attorney admit that the accuser became hesitant at the time the police say she stopped cooperating.

Interesting that the article omits the fact that the accuser's attorney is her mother.

Did anyone besides me think this was interesting:

Early on the morning of Dec. 7, 2012, a freshman at Florida State University reported that she had been raped by a stranger somewhere off campus after a night of drinking at a popular Tallahassee bar called Potbelly’s.

Upon returning to her room, she posted a plea online for someone to call her. Two friends did. One was Jenna Weisberg, another Florida State student.

“I was awake and I called her and she was hysterically crying,” Ms. Weisberg said. “‘I think I just got raped,’” she recalled her saying. Ms. Weisberg drove immediately to the friend’s dorm.

Ms. Weisberg said her friend was reluctant to call the police because she did not “want anybody to be mad at her.” Eventually she relented, and at 3:22 a.m., Ms. Weisberg called 911.

The victim tells the police that she did not know who her assailant was. Yet the accuser's friend states that the victim was reluctant to call the police because she didn't want anyone to 'get mad at her.' Pretty easy to figure out that the girl lied to the police about not knowing who she had sex with. But by saying she was blacked out, she creates a scenario whereby the sex couldn't have been consensual. Like so many other parts of her story, including statements her own friends contradict, the girl appears to be trying to turn a one-night-stand into an assault.

The police figured this out very quickly and wrote it off. The prosecutor is throwing the police under the bus to distance himself from the controversy.

 

[Animal02]

Interesting that the article omits the fact that the accuser's attorney is her mother.

Did anyone besides me think this was interesting:

The victim tells the police that she did not know who her assailant was. Yet the accuser's friend states that the victim was reluctant to call the police because she didn't want anyone to 'get mad at her.' Pretty easy to figure out that the girl lied to the police about not knowing who she had sex with. But by saying she was blacked out, she creates a scenario whereby the sex couldn't have been consensual. Like so many other parts of her story, including statements her own friends contradict, the girl appears to be trying to turn a one-night-stand into an assault.

The police figured this out very quickly and wrote it off. The prosecutor is throwing the police under the bus to distance himself from the controversy.

Your comment that "the police figured it out" is disgusting by itself. It is not up to the police. They should have collected all the evidence and turned it over to the DA to determine if charges are to be filed. (my brother is a prosecutor BTW) Instead they took it upon themselves not to collect all the evidence, delay etc until evidence was erased lost etc. You want to know what smells.....the police "inaction"

"In fact, an examination by The New York Times has found that there was virtually no investigation at all, either by the police or the university."

 

[Animal02]

Sarcasm, really? (do you see what I did there?) I think if you look, you'll see that most of the "facts" damaging to Winston were reported as the accuser's story, therefore not open to lawsuits.

Do you not remember the reporting surrounding the Duke Lacrosse team or George Zimmerman? You didn't answer my question whether you would want your son to go through the media circus and resulting trial because of a false accusation in order to affirm your view that there is never a situation in which rape allegations should not be pursued as guilty until proven innocent.

Seriously, the article simply reports her side of the story, leaves out questions about the story, mentions data (the cell phone video) but does not report that it, if it existed, refutes the accuser's side of the story. I agree that more police work should have been done, but if the story given by the TPD detectives holds any truth, I can understand why they made the wrong decision they made. Still, I disagree with people saying they believe the accuser's family and don't believe the police based on that article. It even has the woman's attorney admit that the accuser became hesitant at the time the police say she stopped cooperating.

Sorry.....but the police have a long history of covering for themselves. I have personally witnessed it happen. If it came down to it, believing the accuser or the police "after the fact" based on the article...I would lean toward the accuser.

 

[AE 87]

Here's an Orlando Sentinel article in response to the New York Times article. It agrees with blaming the TPD for shoddy police work.

Considering the story was almost 5,400 words long, you’d think it would include at least some of the evidence that favored Winston. Like the inconsistent accounts his accuser gave police, the fact semen from another man was also found on her underwear, and that blood tests showed she was not drugged.

Here's an ESPN article from the time of the decision last year:

Major lapses in the accuser's memory, her level of intoxication at the time of the incident and the presence of DNA from two different men in the woman's rape kit were the main reasons the state decided not to charge the Heisman Trophy favorite, State Attorney Willie Meggs said during a news conference Thursday. ... How reluctant was Winston's accuser to testify about the boyfriend? She refused to give Meggs and his investigators his name, and when the investigators located him, he refused to cooperate. He gave them a DNA sample because he was required to do so, but he refused to respond to their questions about what happened on the night in question.

Although Meggs refused to speculate why, he did point to an analysis of a blood-alcohol test taken several hours after the alleged attack that showed that her blood-alcohol content at the time of the incident could have been 0.10 percent, even though when it was taken the test registered a 0.04 reading.

While making poor sexual decisions at a BAC of .08-.12 is common, blackouts are uncommon below a BAC .12, iiuc.

Here's one from Tampa last December:

Carroll said the accuser, a 19-year-old Pasco County resident, showed symptoms — nausea, headaches, spotty memory — during the Dec. 7, 2012, encounter that were consistent with date-rape drugs. Police documents also say the woman was given a shot of alcohol by an unknown person at Potbelly's, a Tallahassee bar.

After her samples were checked and independently retested for 172 different drugs but showed no traces of anything, Carroll questioned whether police tampered with the evidence.

Now, it could very easily have been a conspiracy to protect a rapist. But, it could just as easily have been a young woman caught-up in the consequences of alcohol induced bad judgment. It could be the person she didn't want angry with her was her boy friend with whom she had sex on the same day as Winston.

As I said before, I agree that the police should have collected more data, but I understand why they weren't more aggressive when the accuser wasn't willing to press charges.

 

[AE 87]

Sorry.....but the police have a long history of covering for themselves. I have personally witnessed it happen. If it came down to it, believing the accuser or the police "after the fact" based on the article...I would lean toward the accuser.

My point has only been, that the article itself gives you good reason not to trust the article.

 

[Squints]

Your comment that "the police figured it out" is disgusting by itself. It is not up to the police. They should have collected all the evidence and turned it over to the DA to determine if charges are to be filed. (my brother is a prosecutor BTW) Instead they took it upon themselves not to collect all the evidence, delay etc until evidence was erased lost etc. You want to know what smells.....the police "inaction"

"In fact, an examination by The New York Times has found that there was virtually no investigation at all, either by the police or the university."

From what I've read the Tallahassee PD is just a pretty bad police department. I don't think it there was a cover up or bad intent. They're just not very good at their jobs.

 

[Animal02]

My point has only been, that the article itself gives you good reason not to trust the article.

Oh, believe me, I would not trust a reporter further than I could throw him/her. They are about as trustworthy as real estate brokers.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

My point has only been, that the article itself gives you good reason not to trust the article.

Just curious, what's your opinion of TPD?

 

[AE 87]

Just curious, what's your opinion of TPD?

I don't really have an opinion beyond what I've expressed repeatedly.

 

[00Burdell]

After her samples were checked and independently retested for 172 different drugs but showed no traces of anything, Carroll questioned whether police tampered with the evidence.

Now, it could very easily have been a conspiracy to protect a rapist.

The incident occurred on Dec 7th.

Officer Angulo, who had told his superiors that he “had no real leads,” suddenly got a big one on Jan. 10, a little more than a month after the encounter. As a new semester was beginning, the accuser called to say she had identified the suspect — Jameis Winston — after seeing him in class and hearing his name called out.

So you have to figure that the drug tests were conducted very quickly after the accuser filed her police report. So how could the whole thing be a cover up to protect Winston when they didn't know that Winston was the suspect was until January 10th?

Again, more holes than an Al Groh defense.

 

[Dustman]

The incident occurred on Dec 7th.



So you have to figure that the drug tests were conducted very quickly after the accuser filed her police report. So how could the whole thing be a cover up to protect Winston when they didn't know that Winston was the suspect was until January 10th?

Again, more holes than an Al Groh defense.

Clearly TPD covers up every case that could potentially involve a highly rated prospect that hasn't won a starting job on the field yet but may just win the Heisman and MNC the following fall.

 

[takethepoints]

Not necessarily. The "shoddy investigation" could be the product of police officers interviewing the alleged victim and determining her story doesn't hold water. Perhaps they wanted to immediately dismiss the case but were told to "continue investigating it" because of the high profile nature of the defendant and the potential for backlash later if it wasn't investigated.

Then, during the course of the investigation, more inconsistencies appeared or more conflicting testimony from witnesses appeared, so they just "dialed it in" and did a crappy job of the investigation because they were already convinced there was "nothing to see here...move along" or something like that. But despite their desire to end the investigation, their bosses wouldn't let that happen.

Again, I have no idea what happened....but neither do you. And to read stuff on the internet and to make up your mind about it based on 3rd and 4th hand accounts is not necessarily the brightest thing to do either.

Personally....I think your account is more likely on the police's line of thinking. But no way can I say without a shadow of a doubt that I or anyone else knows for certain what happened here.

Edited to add: I have seen the screen shots of the alleged Facebook page she took down. If those are real and not Photoshopped, then I would have found it hard to believe her story either.

What you haven't done here is think the whole situation through.

If the young woman in question had, in fact, been going after FSU football players (no accounting for tastes) then we can assume that the presumed motive for turning Winston – that he failed to show the appropriate affection after the encounter – was something she had run into before. After all, adventurous young women would be inured to callous behavior. Why would she have filed a complaint if she wasn't date raped? She must be an fan and, by your own admission, she must have been used to this kind of behavior from the players. But she did file a complaint. Then the cops, knowing who she had made it against and knowing what the fall out would be if they followed through on it, decided to use her rep against her and shrug off the investigation.

And, actually, I do have a pretty good idea of what happened: the Talahassee cops conspired to let the investigation slide. Or, to put it more exactly, they conspired to obstruct justice and the train of evidence was corrupted so throughly that no subsequent investigation could unravel the scheme. Of course, corrupt cops – and that, my friend, is what we are talking about here – are past masters of this particular dodge. There really isn't any other conclusion that anybody who knows anything about how investigations work could make.

 

[Animal02]

http://fsunytimes.fsu.edu/letters/

 

[GTNavyNuke]

http://fsunytimes.fsu.edu/letters/

Weak counter by the VP for University Relations. Would have been more appropriate from the VP for University Affairs.