North Carolina @ Georgia Tech, Wednesday January 30th at 8pm

[slugboy]

Sturdivant? Does he ever make a shot? Amazing that he's 1 of the 7 that plays appreciable minutes.

It's ironic that you posted this tagging a player directly, shortly after one of the player parents said "ahem" and cleared his throat in this thread.

I can give a few stats here, but they don't tell the entire story. Medlock and Rice only played two minutes, and a lot of the others don't really have enough minutes to form a solid opinion.

We play a lot of guards. Alvarado usually brings the ball upcourt, but sometimes I've seen other guards do that. Sturdivant has had some good games. I'm not sure why some players get game action and others don't, but I'd think Sturdivant is getting minutes because he's doing something that another player isn't.

We've had 9 players active in ACC play: Devoe, Alvarado, Usher, Wright, Parham, Moore, Sturdivant, Saba G, and Howard.

Here's an explanation of Player Efficiency Rating, which is how the table is sorted. BPM is almost the same, but it puts Alvarado ahead of Wright (as does Effective Field Goal %).

Rk	Player	G	GS	MP	PERV	TS%	eFG%	3PAr	FTr	PProd	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%	OBPM	DBPM	BPM
3	Moses Wright	8	8	285	25.2	.595	.561	.102	.510	139	10.0	13.9	12.0	9.3	2.8	2.8	9.6	23.8	5.3	-0.2	5.1
4	Jose Alvarado	8	8	288	23.1	.641	.598	.435	.359	134	3.3	8.8	6.0	21.6	3.6	0.4	14.3	21.9	5.4	0.8	6.2
5	Jordan Usher	8	8	213	19.0	.561	.551	.333	.232	87	5.0	16.9	11.0	20.9	2.9	2.6	16.4	21.6	2.5	1.1	3.6
6	Bubba Parham	8	6	249	15.5	.555	.531	.672	.234	78	3.4	11.1	7.2	12.7	2.5	0.0	5.3	15.2	2.6	0.2	2.9
7	Michael Devoe	8	8	278	13.5	.545	.516	.495	.253	111	3.4	14.3	8.8	18.8	1.2	0.4	21.6	23.5	2.1	-2.0	0.1
8	Khalid Moore	8	0	184	12.4	.471	.414	.486	.514	43	4.5	15.0	9.8	6.2	3.1	2.4	10.3	13.3	1.3	0.8	2.1
10	Kyle Sturdivant	8	0	107	8.6	.468	.413	.304	.435	28	1.1	12.4	6.7	15.8	0.5	1.0	15.3	15.4	-1.8	-2.0	-3.8
11	Rodney Howard	5	2	40	5.9	.486	.455	.000	.455	10	0.0	18.0	9.0	0.0	0.0	5.6	18.3	20.6	-7.7	-2.1	-9.8

[thead] [/thead]

Provided by CBB at Sports Reference: View Original Table
Generated 1/2/2021.

 

[slugboy]

It's ironic that you posted this tagging a player directly, shortly after one of the player parents said "ahem" and cleared his throat in this thread.

I can give a few stats here, but they don't tell the entire story. Medlock and Rice only played two minutes, and a lot of the others don't really have enough minutes to form a solid opinion.
...


Provided by CBB at Sports Reference: View Original Table
Generated 1/2/2021.

I had to cut a lot of stats to fit the table, including Saba's row and everyone in single digit minutes of playing time.

 

[CuseJacket]

'Cuse, we can split hairs on this, but I don't like guys who won't take an open shot (and convert a reasonable % of them). These guys make it easier to defend the others on the court and thus are liabilities.

Nothing I hate worse than an "athlete" on the court who can't shoot a damn BB. I am not saying everyone needs to make 3's but being a basketball player who can't shoot imo is like a golfer who can't putt. I may make an exception for a true C but even that position needs to be able to score around the basket. The other 4 guys need to be shooters. In my perfect world.

Note, I haven't seen the team play so that is not directed at any individual on our team. I just hate watching (or playing with "back in the day") bricklayers. Rant over.

I don't think you're splitting hairs. I hate those situations too. But (see last post), my beef in those situations is not with the player but with the coach.

Generally speaking and not specific to Jordan 1) I'd prefer if a player is a liability on one end, that we have a roster/depth/experience where playing the next guy up doesn't become a drop-off or an issue, and 2) Even if we have to play the former player, I'd prefer we run actions and enforce principles where you can still create another decent shot without regretting passing on the low % shot, which sometimes is such a low % that it's effectively a turnover. Just because a guy is listed as a 1, 2 or 3 doesn't mean they should have a green light in every situation.

 

[dtm1997]

Sturdivant? Does he ever make a shot? Amazing that he's 1 of the 7 that plays appreciable minutes.

The tone here seems unnecessary, particularly about a specific player who's still in a developmental spot backing up our SR PG that rarely comes off the floor.

 

[lv20gt]

In regards to Sturdivant he's minutes are pretty all over the place. He played just 2 minutes in the 4OT game against GAST and 10 minutes against mercer in what I expect was an attempt to help tired legs a bit. He also played just 5 against FAMU and only 1 against UNC. But he also played 21 in a great game against Kentucky and 30 in a bad statistical game against Nebraksa and 15 against FSU.

My guess his minutes are based on a couple of things.

The first is that he's basically the 7th man on a team that doesn't have a great 7th man option with the way it's playing (I have my own thoughts about the use of Howard and Saba but that's a different issue). As a 7th man he's basically giving us some ball handling and defense without many mistakes. I imagine in the off season there was a big focus on limiting turnovers and it probably is part of the reason he's playing

The second is with Jose and Bubba graduating we need to get him game experience so that he can help run the show next year. Obviously we should still have Mike to help, but I'm not sure having him being the primary ball handler and facilitator is the right play. When Sturdivant has come in, he has usually helped with the ball handling duties, and even if he isn't making the plays himself, he seems to take some of the burden off of Jose especially at times. For instance against Nebraska the stats look like he had a bad game and don't justify the 30 minutes, but in that game he was in that lineup that basically played the entire second half and pulled away.

The third, using him basically gives us the option of staying with the same basic composition after a sub. If we didn't play him then any time Jose, Mike, or Bubba would come out we'd either have to put in Moore or slide Usher back to the 3 and go with a lineup similar to last year. While both of those lineups have arguments in favor of them, there is something to be said for being able to sub and still have the same dynamic of three guards. And with Maxwell getting hurt Sturdivant was the only real choice.

On a tangential note. We basically have our core group of 5 that start and then 4 "options" as subs that bring something mostly different. Howard/Saba give us size. Moore gives us wing defense. Sturdivant gives us ball handling. Ideally, Maxwell would recover nicely and be similar with giving us a shooting/scoring option off the bench as it's one of our biggest holes right now. A lot to ask given the circumstances though.

 

[ramblinwreckguru]

The tone here seems unnecessary, particularly about a specific player who's still in a developmental spot backing up our SR PG that rarely comes off the floor.

It was a serious question. While I have not seen a couple games due to RSN blackouts, I don't think I've actually seen him make a shot. Since we only play 7 players most of the time, he seems to be a liability on the offensive end.

 

[ramblinwreckguru]

In regards to Sturdivant he's minutes are pretty all over the place. He played just 2 minutes in the 4OT game against GAST and 10 minutes against mercer in what I expect was an attempt to help tired legs a bit. He also played just 5 against FAMU and only 1 against UNC. But he also played 21 in a great game against Kentucky and 30 in a bad statistical game against Nebraksa and 15 against FSU.

My guess his minutes are based on a couple of things.

The first is that he's basically the 7th man on a team that doesn't have a great 7th man option with the way it's playing (I have my own thoughts about the use of Howard and Saba but that's a different issue). As a 7th man he's basically giving us some ball handling and defense without many mistakes. I imagine in the off season there was a big focus on limiting turnovers and it probably is part of the reason he's playing

The second is with Jose and Bubba graduating we need to get him game experience so that he can help run the show next year. Obviously we should still have Mike to help, but I'm not sure having him being the primary ball handler and facilitator is the right play. When Sturdivant has come in, he has usually helped with the ball handling duties, and even if he isn't making the plays himself, he seems to take some of the burden off of Jose especially at times. For instance against Nebraska the stats look like he had a bad game and don't justify the 30 minutes, but in that game he was in that lineup that basically played the entire second half and pulled away.

The third, using him basically gives us the option of staying with the same basic composition after a sub. If we didn't play him then any time Jose, Mike, or Bubba would come out we'd either have to put in Moore or slide Usher back to the 3 and go with a lineup similar to last year. While both of those lineups have arguments in favor of them, there is something to be said for being able to sub and still have the same dynamic of three guards. And with Maxwell getting hurt Sturdivant was the only real choice.

On a tangential note. We basically have our core group of 5 that start and then 4 "options" as subs that bring something mostly different. Howard/Saba give us size. Moore gives us wing defense. Sturdivant gives us ball handling. Ideally, Maxwell would recover nicely and be similar with giving us a shooting/scoring option off the bench as it's one of our biggest holes right now. A lot to ask given the circumstances though.

This makes sense. He may just be our 7th best option in rotation. Says more about our depth than anything else. Hopefully we have more quality guys coming in the next couple years.

 

[YlJacket]

Yea, I don't think there is much doubt that reducing turnovers is driving PT off the bench. I remember Usher sitting when he had a game with multiple turnovers early on and didn't get back much at all. After the first 2 debacles it is hard to argue with that focus. One of the things I am realizing about CJP is his comments about substitution by "feel of the game" means we are not going to see distinct patterns or consistency in our substitution patterns or a focus on what would be called strategic development substitutions.

Generally, I would like to see Sturdivant and probably Howard have a set rotation say 10 min into the game but that is not CJP's approach.

 

[dtm1997]

It was a serious question. While I have not seen a couple games due to RSN blackouts, I don't think I've actually seen him make a shot. Since we only play 7 players most of the time, he seems to be a liability on the offensive end.

Most of them were in the Kentucky game, which I guess you missed on ESPN, but he's not being asked to make shots right now. He's being asked to be a calming presence handling the ball and keeping TOs down during his minutes.

In limited minutes, he's averaging 1.3A/0.6TO.

Let's start there and work our way out. He's going to be a traditional set-up PG for us that can drive & kick and we're bringing in shooters around him (Deebo, Miles Kelly, Tristan Maxwell).

 

[ramblinwreckguru]

Most of them were in the Kentucky game, which I guess you missed on ESPN, but he's not being asked to make shots right now. He's being asked to be a calming presence handling the ball and keeping TOs down during his minutes.

In limited minutes, he's averaging 1.3A/0.6TO.

Let's start there and work our way out. He's going to be a traditional set-up PG for us that can drive & kick and we're bringing in shooters around him (Deebo, Miles Kelly, Tristan Maxwell).

I actually watched the Kentucky game but don't remember Sturdivant scoring. Glad to find out that he did.

 

[orientalnc]

In regards to Sturdivant he's minutes are pretty all over the place. He played just 2 minutes in the 4OT game against GAST and 10 minutes against mercer in what I expect was an attempt to help tired legs a bit. He also played just 5 against FAMU and only 1 against UNC. But he also played 21 in a great game against Kentucky and 30 in a bad statistical game against Nebraksa and 15 against FSU.

My guess his minutes are based on a couple of things.

The first is that he's basically the 7th man on a team that doesn't have a great 7th man option with the way it's playing (I have my own thoughts about the use of Howard and Saba but that's a different issue). As a 7th man he's basically giving us some ball handling and defense without many mistakes. I imagine in the off season there was a big focus on limiting turnovers and it probably is part of the reason he's playing

The second is with Jose and Bubba graduating we need to get him game experience so that he can help run the show next year. Obviously we should still have Mike to help, but I'm not sure having him being the primary ball handler and facilitator is the right play. When Sturdivant has come in, he has usually helped with the ball handling duties, and even if he isn't making the plays himself, he seems to take some of the burden off of Jose especially at times. For instance against Nebraska the stats look like he had a bad game and don't justify the 30 minutes, but in that game he was in that lineup that basically played the entire second half and pulled away.

The third, using him basically gives us the option of staying with the same basic composition after a sub. If we didn't play him then any time Jose, Mike, or Bubba would come out we'd either have to put in Moore or slide Usher back to the 3 and go with a lineup similar to last year. While both of those lineups have arguments in favor of them, there is something to be said for being able to sub and still have the same dynamic of three guards. And with Maxwell getting hurt Sturdivant was the only real choice.

On a tangential note. We basically have our core group of 5 that start and then 4 "options" as subs that bring something mostly different. Howard/Saba give us size. Moore gives us wing defense. Sturdivant gives us ball handling. Ideally, Maxwell would recover nicely and be similar with giving us a shooting/scoring option off the bench as it's one of our biggest holes right now. A lot to ask given the circumstances though.

I don't disagree with this post, but the rotation Pastner sets up has to consider matchups. UNC has a huge lineup and that forced Howard to log more minutes than normal. He was our 7th man in this game. Also, Jose, Mike, Bubba, and Usher were playing perhaps their best games of the season. When Usher got his 4th foul I thought Pastner put him right back in the game because we needed him in there. Sturdivant was not going to play the 3 or the 4 at that time. And Moore already had four personals.

The camera flashed a shot of Sturdivant when he was sitting down after coming out of the game. I did not notice the situation right then, and I am not implying anything, but he did not look like a happy guy. Players want to play, so that is not unusual.

We have six ACC ready players. Pastner is trying to put the 7th or 8th guys in when he can. And, for no more than he has to. I will be happier when Maxwell is ready to play.

 

[Jacketman99]

I actually watched the Kentucky game but don't remember Sturdivant scoring. Glad to find out that he did.

Sturdivant scored 15 while hitting 5 of 6 from the field along with 3 assists against UK.

Jordan Usher is capable of hitting the corner 3. He hit 40% as a freshman at USC. He is currently hitting about 35% this year. He needs to be a threat in order to keep the defense honest. I don't see how him taking an open 3 in the flow of the offense can be a bad thing.

As for playing time for certain individuals, Pastner has mentioned some of the playing time is based off of feel. Basically if a certain lineup is working he keeps those guys in the game. There have been certain games where some starters did not play much in the second half due to the success of the lineup that was in the game.

 

[Connell62]

This makes sense. He may just be our 7th best option in rotation. Says more about our depth than anything else. Hopefully we have more quality guys coming in the next couple years.

Or, it could just say that you need to watch more games versus commenting off of box-scores...

You admitted you haven't watched many games, somehow overlooked his play against KY, but then proceed to rag on Kyle as if his playing speaks to a lack of depth.

WOW...For those of us who have watched the games, it is pretty clear that Kyle is our fourth best guard. He's actually scored more than I thought he would.

He's never had a reputation as a shooter/scorer. Do your research and understand the players on our team before you decide to bash SA's.

 

[Jacketman99]

Kyle is still a young player who is getting integrated into the team. He is still learning the system. It took Usher a while last season to find a groove and he was on campus longer than Kyle and had more playing time. As others have pointed out, he is not a scoring guard but someone who can handle the basketball and help run the offense. He was not brought here to be a primary scorer. Guys like Maxwell, Coleman, and Kelly will be counted on in the future as primary scorers.

 

[GTHomer]

Kyle is still a young player who is getting integrated into the team. He is still learning the system. It took Usher a while last season to find a groove and he was on campus longer than Kyle and had more playing time. As others have pointed out, he is not a scoring guard but someone who can handle the basketball and help run the offense. He was not brought here to be a primary scorer. Guys like Maxwell, Coleman, and Kelly will be counted on in the future as primary scorers.

I agree with your points however believe that we will see more offense from Kyle as the season progresses and going into next season. I think this season we are looking for him to provide good ball handling (protect the ball) and defense over scoring.

Though his breakout was the Kentucky game, I have been impressed by what I've seen thus far from him this season. I believe we should have a strong backcourt next season with Kyle, Devoe, Maxwell and the incoming freshman.

I'd like to see our young bigs get 5-10 minutes/game of PT with the starters as I believe nothing accelerates development faster than getting in game PT. I realize that the game situation dictates whether this happens however if the team has a large lead and it doesn't interrupt the flow of the game, they should get some time.

 

[ramblinwreckguru]

Or, it could just say that you need to watch more games versus commenting off of box-scores...

You admitted you haven't watched many games, somehow overlooked his play against KY, but then proceed to rag on Kyle as if his playing speaks to a lack of depth.

WOW...For those of us who have watched the games, it is pretty clear that Kyle is our fourth best guard. He's actually scored more than I thought he would.

He's never had a reputation as a shooter/scorer. Do your research and understand the players on our team before you decide to bash SA's.

I didn't realize that researching and understanding the players was a prerequisite for commenting on a message board. My comments have been based on only what I have seen in games. That said, I thought Sturdivant had a good game last night in his limited minutes.

 

[dtm1997]

I didn't realize that researching and understanding the players was a prerequisite for commenting on a message board. My comments have been based on only what I have seen in games. That said, I thought Sturdivant had a good game last night in his limited minutes.

I mean, your take was that he seemed an offensive liability based on your highly incomplete understanding of what is a limited data set to begin with.

You basically knew nothing, also appearing to not pay attention to what you do watch (Kentucky game) and chimed in with a really bad take anyway.

 

[lv20gt]

You sometimes see guys come in and they don't quite seem to fit with how the team is currently built, but seem to obviously fit towards where the team is going. To me that is where Kyle is. On the current team we basically start 2.5 PGs, and whenever Kyle comes in there is still usually a better option to take care of the ball (unless we go something like Kyle, Mike, Khalid). That means he spends more time off ball than he really naturally would, and when he does have the ball in his hands the better option is for him to be conservative which limits him.

However, I think what he has shown really meshes well with the direction the team is going after this year. With a line up of Him, Devoe, Coleman, Moore, and Howard, or with Maxwell/Kelly/Gigiberia mixed in or whatever, we seem to be really poised to take advantage of putting the ball in his hands and him driving and either finishing, kicking to one of the shooters, or dumping it off to one of the bigs. His ball handling will be a bigger advantage with the relative inexperience and ballhandling on the team next year compared to this, and allow for some of the younger players to contribute offensively without the pressure of having to create for themselves.

To me, he's shown good ball handling and good defense as well as a pretty good ability to drive to either score or facilitate. Mechanically his shot looks good enough to keep defenders somewhat honest. The latter two are harder to judge because of his role on this year's team. Overall there is nothing about his game that really makes me that concerned with him taking over the PG duties next year. Obviously you don't lose a guy like Jose and not feel it but I still think we will be okay. Might take a little bit for the team to find an identity but that's not really unexpected.

 

[Silk3]

Or, it could just say that you need to watch more games versus commenting off of box-scores...

You admitted you haven't watched many games, somehow overlooked his play against KY, but then proceed to rag on Kyle as if his playing speaks to a lack of depth.

WOW...For those of us who have watched the games, it is pretty clear that Kyle is our fourth best guard. He's actually scored more than I thought he would.

He's never had a reputation as a shooter/scorer. Do your research and understand the players on our team before you decide to bash SA's.

As someone who has watched every minute of every game he needs to get a lot better if hes gonna take over point for jose next year. Alot. He has time so hopefully he works hard and improves alot.

 

[Connell62]

You sometimes see guys come in and they don't quite seem to fit with how the team is currently built, but seem to obviously fit towards where the team is going. To me that is where Kyle is. On the current team we basically start 2.5 PGs, and whenever Kyle comes in there is still usually a better option to take care of the ball (unless we go something like Kyle, Mike, Khalid). That means he spends more time off ball than he really naturally would, and when he does have the ball in his hands the better option is for him to be conservative which limits him.

However, I think what he has shown really meshes well with the direction the team is going after this year. With a line up of Him, Devoe, Coleman, Moore, and Howard, or with Maxwell/Kelly/Gigiberia mixed in or whatever, we seem to be really poised to take advantage of putting the ball in his hands and him driving and either finishing, kicking to one of the shooters, or dumping it off to one of the bigs. His ball handling will be a bigger advantage with the relative inexperience and ballhandling on the team next year compared to this, and allow for some of the younger players to contribute offensively without the pressure of having to create for themselves.

To me, he's shown good ball handling and good defense as well as a pretty good ability to drive to either score or facilitate. Mechanically his shot looks good enough to keep defenders somewhat honest. The latter two are harder to judge because of his role on this year's team. Overall there is nothing about his game that really makes me that concerned with him taking over the PG duties next year. Obviously you don't lose a guy like Jose and not feel it but I still think we will be okay. Might take a little bit for the team to find an identity but that's not really unexpected.

In my opinion, the most important part of our offense right now is our guards ability to get into the lane and finish.

Aside from Moses, we have no post presence, so it is critical that we get into the lane. In the short time Kyle's been here, I feel like that's what he does best.

When he gets the ball, he is really strong at turning the corner and getting to the rack. He's just got to work on finishing more often and making decisions.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I really sold that part of his game short. I thought he was pass-first. He's shown flashes of being a strong scorer.