My Issues With Our Coaching

[RonJohn]

Nowhere near the end of the Chan era? I assume you mean CPJ era. I agree that barring a total collapse, we will have CPJ at the helm through the 2017 season. But I think we're at a crossroads. GT either reconciles itself to a middling 4-7 to 7-5 football program or commits to improve. By commits to improve, I mean steps from The Hill to facilitate recruiting such as a more SA-friendly major and admissions exceptions. What did you have in mind?

The school had a 20% limit for exceptions in place, but according to reports it was removed in 2014. According to the reports, the school said that it is up to the coaches and the athletic department to ensure that the exceptions have the ability and keep up with their schoolwork. So your second suggestion has already been implemented.

As to easier majors, the job of the school administration is to run a top notch school, not run a professional football team. According to US News, Ga Tech is the second best public engineering school, and the fourth best engineering school overall in the country. I would say that they are doing their actual job extremely well.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

The school had a 20% limit for exceptions in place, but according to reports it was removed in 2014. According to the reports, the school said that it is up to the coaches and the athletic department to ensure that the exceptions have the ability and keep up with their schoolwork. So your second suggestion has already been implemented.

As to easier majors, the job of the school administration is to run a top notch school, not run a professional football team. According to US News, Ga Tech is the second best public engineering school, and the fourth best engineering school overall in the country. I would say that they are doing their actual job extremely well.

I'm not sure how adding a hopefully respectable NON-ENGINEERING curriculum to that already in place diminishes the quality of the ENGINEERING curriculum, or Tech's place among the best not only in the country, but in the world. Stanford is still regarded as one of the top UNIVERSITIES in the country, even though it certainly has its share of courses, and even majors that are nothing to jump up and down about.

 

[CrackerJacket]

The school had a 20% limit for exceptions in place, but according to reports it was removed in 2014. According to the reports, the school said that it is up to the coaches and the athletic department to ensure that the exceptions have the ability and keep up with their schoolwork. So your second suggestion has already been implemented.

As to easier majors, the job of the school administration is to run a top notch school, not run a professional football team. According to US News, Ga Tech is the second best public engineering school, and the fourth best engineering school overall in the country. I would say that they are doing their actual job extremely well.

Harrumph, harrumph.

The quality of a 'Business Admin W. Sports Concentration' degree or the like does not affect the quality of either of my GT Engineering degrees. And last I heard, Atlanta's professional football team plays a mile or so south of BDS. If it will help you down off your high horse, by easier degree, I mean things like allowing the Survey Of Calc course to be completed within the first 75-80% of the course hours required for the BA degree, that is, by the end of a normal junior year. Last time I checked the catalog, the BAs had to complete the calc requirement by the end of their sophomore year.

 

[RonJohn]

Harrumph, harrumph.

The quality of a 'Business Admin W. Sports Concentration' degree or the like does not affect the quality of either of my GT Engineering degrees. And last I heard, Atlanta's professional football team plays a mile or so south of BDS. If it will help you down off your high horse, by easier degree, I mean things like allowing the Survey Of Calc course to be completed within the first 75-80% of the course hours required for the BA degree, that is, by the end of a normal junior year. Last time I checked the catalog, the BAs had to complete the calc requirement by the end of their sophomore year.

I am not trying to ride a high horse. What I am saying is that the school administration is solely responsible for the school. They should do whatever is in the best interest of the school, whether it is in the best interest of extra-curricular activities or not. The primary purpose of any school should be education. I have not evaluated any proposed additional majors and have no opinion on adding any. I am however opposed to adding majors for the sole purpose of improving sports. The more I hear people try to bring in ringers to play football, and the way I believe many schools are operating, the more sympathy I have for the kids who are trying to sue the NCAA. If people really want semi-pro teams instead of teams of students, then they SHOULD be paid and the whole NCAA should be abolished. Just have minor league teams sponsored by colleges. However, if that was the system, GT wouldn't be able to field a team half as good as the one we have now.

 

[iceeater1969]

I am not trying to ride a high horse. What I am saying is that the school administration is solely responsible for the school. They should do whatever is in the best interest of the school, whether it is in the best interest of extra-curricular activities or not. The primary purpose of any school should be education. I have not evaluated any proposed additional majors and have no opinion on adding any. I am however opposed to adding majors for the sole purpose of improving sports. The more I hear people try to bring in ringers to play football, and the way I believe many schools are operating, the more sympathy I have for the kids who are trying to sue the NCAA. If people really want semi-pro teams instead of teams of students, then they SHOULD be paid and the whole NCAA should be abolished. Just have minor league teams sponsored by colleges. However, if that was the system, GT wouldn't be able to field a team half as good as the one we have now.

Seems like Bud has big involvement in athletics. Note picture before clemson.

When students brought him part of goal post after VT win, he seemed happy.
At the acc and orange bowl parties he and alumni prez said donations are way up.

I think athletics well done is engrained in the gt we support.
Heisman award for best player, Dodd for best coach, broyles for best assistant coach Rice for best AD.

I hate to see these legacies thought off as irrelevant and not in need of integrated actions.

We need some Buzz. What could we do?

 

[iceeater1969]

Here is picture.

 

[tatertot1]

Here's the thing with our coach just my opinion,if he goes I'm fine with it if he stays I'm fine with either way Tech will get better I believe it,but if a change needs to happen let it change,just hope it want hurt recruiting if we get another coach I personally like Coach Paul just think he needs to amp up on recruiting a little bit like getting a Leonard Warner type guy or flipping Malik Willis out of Roswell finding a 4 star running back would be awesome but can't always find that in a triple option team but rest assure he would be playing a lot if he came to Tech,I think the personnel is good but players we got to have the wants in them like a Dedrick Mills Marcus Marshall Harrison butker just hope they can regroup it this week against Pitt and win some games Good Luck to them this week Thwg

 

[Jmonty71]

I don't fully understand CPJ's offense, nor will I even act like I do.

However; I do know defense. Played it, coached it, taught it.

What Roof runs is a very stripped down, vanilla 4-3 base defense. Little to no presnap movement. Very little pressure. Looks like we play almost a nickel version of a prevent defense. The kids are coached to play lackadaisical and then expected to turn the aggression on when tackling. The LB's look lost, at times. The DB's play so far off the ball, it doesn't matter.

These are all serious issues when you play teams with the same or better talent. It's a recipe for disaster. Take the Clemson game. Everyone knew that Watson was a timing QB. I lot of the routes were based on timing. Why oh why, would you start the game with the DB's not pressing their WRs? After a quick 14 points, Roof finally got a clue.

I'm not saying we blitz on every play. However; you can't play and fall back into a soft zone every play either. You have to let your defense pin their ears back and go after the QB here and there. You have to let the kids be aggressive on the field. That leads to better tackling, turnovers and force more punts.

I am not a fan of the "bend but don't break" defense. In which, quick history lesson. The nickel "bend but don't break" defense was created in the 80s by the NY Giants as a why to combat the West Coast offenses. Mid to late 80s, but the 80s. This defense was good all they way through the 90s, pretty much. However; most offenses now are not West Coast style and much more modern. It takes a modern defense to combat modern offenses. Running a defensive system that is 30 years old against modern offenses just doesn't work well. Which is why we could not stop Clemson or Miami. UNC, Pitt, Duke and UGA all run fairly modern offenses. Now UGA, has some serious issues, so we have a chance there. Same thing with Duke. Pitt has proven that they can score points, same with UNC.

Until GT replaces Roof or Roof decides to change his style, GT will continue to struggle and never get better than average, as a defense.

 

[Vespidae]

To play Tech football, you have to be able to play GREAT defense, and create and take advantage of turnovers.

Our approach today is too conventional. We have to do a better job creating confusion for the other guys.

Our sideline coaching needs a lot of work.

 

[MWBATL]

If people really want semi-pro teams instead of teams of students, then they SHOULD be paid and the whole NCAA should be abolished. Just have minor league teams sponsored by colleges. However, if that was the system, GT wouldn't be able to field a team half as good as the one we have now.

Just curious as to why you think that? If everyone went to a more open and honest system...call it semi-pro and pay the players, allow Football to be a degree the school grants (because it is after all preparing these kids for a career in a trade that has higher starting salaries than any other degree at GT) or whatever solution you prefer.....why would that mean GT would be unable to field a competitive team? It would remove one huge restriction in our case (recruiting issues). Monetarily, we are behind most SEC schools, heck we are behind most schools that are simply larger than us in terms of alumni base.....(which goes back to expanding the curriculum, which I am strongly in favor of because ti simply does NOT degrade anyone's engineering degree)..but that financial disadvantage hurts us every bit as much today already

 

[RonJohn]

Just curious as to why you think that? If everyone went to a more open and honest system...call it semi-pro and pay the players, allow Football to be a degree the school grants (because it is after all preparing these kids for a career in a trade that has higher starting salaries than any other degree at GT) or whatever solution you prefer.....why would that mean GT would be unable to field a competitive team? It would remove one huge restriction in our case (recruiting issues). Monetarily, we are behind most SEC schools, heck we are behind most schools that are simply larger than us in terms of alumni base.....(which goes back to expanding the curriculum, which I am strongly in favor of because ti simply does NOT degrade anyone's engineering degree)..but that financial disadvantage hurts us every bit as much today already

Exactly because we have a monetary disadvantage. If colleges go to a sponsored semi-pro format and pay the players, then Texas A&M, USC, Texas, Alabama, UGA, etc will be able to pay their players much more than GT. It would remove academics from our recruiting issues, but would add a bigger problem in that T A&M would offer a receiver $1million a year to play for them while GT would struggle to offer $50k.

 

[RonJohn]

Just curious as to why you think that? If everyone went to a more open and honest system...call it semi-pro and pay the players, allow Football to be a degree the school grants (because it is after all preparing these kids for a career in a trade that has higher starting salaries than any other degree at GT) or whatever solution you prefer.....why would that mean GT would be unable to field a competitive team? It would remove one huge restriction in our case (recruiting issues). Monetarily, we are behind most SEC schools, heck we are behind most schools that are simply larger than us in terms of alumni base.....(which goes back to expanding the curriculum, which I am strongly in favor of because ti simply does NOT degrade anyone's engineering degree)..but that financial disadvantage hurts us every bit as much today already

One other thing I would like to try to clarify. My opposition to installing majors solely for football is not based on a feeling of superiority. It is just a strong belief that the school should operate as a school, period. SAs have been ridiculed many places, including this forum for complaining that they are working as slaves or as indentured servants. The general belief is that they are provided free educations that set them up for success in life and they should be happy. Well, the fake degrees at UNC provided absolutely nothing for their athletes. They basically received room and board, which some would argue is enough. However, if they had been free to market their potential, they might have been able to receive large salaries. In the current system, they are explicitly prevented from doing that. I am convinced that many NCAA programs have degrees and classes that are just as worthless as the one that UNC was caught for. If GT adds majors for the express purpose of getting SAs who cannot succeed at GT now, will those SAs have the same potential as the SAs who get in now? I believe the coaches taught a 40 year plan to prospective SAs now. Should the future be to taught a 4 year plan, and then hope to play professional ball? Not every GT SA will graduate, just as not every GT student will graduate. At the moment however, they have the support and potential to be successful. Chase Roberts was injured and didn't compete on the field for long, but watch his address to the donors. I have pride in the character of our SAs. I want the GT system to be set up to develop young SAs in sports and for life. I want to win football games, but I would rather lose than bring in ringers to use for four years and then spit out like trash.

 

[mqpayne]

Per Dabo that is what Clemson runs. See is comments after the UL game.


And, what is that "thing" we must do to recruit superior athletes?

Look 50% of the teams running ny scheme you can name have losing records. Period. Scheme is about as important as the weather.; it rains on both sides of the field.

Your problem is that GT decided that it is an academic institution first and an athletic institution last. Do you really, truly, want to change that?
Do you want to be top 10 in academics or football?

Stanford

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Stanford

Stanford has its ups and downs in football too. Tech's history is far more notable, even in the past 40 years, than is Stanford's.

 

[MWBATL]

One other thing I would like to try to clarify. My opposition to installing majors solely for football is not based on a feeling of superiority. It is just a strong belief that the school should operate as a school, period. SAs have been ridiculed many places, including this forum for complaining that they are working as slaves or as indentured servants. The general belief is that they are provided free educations that set them up for success in life and they should be happy. Well, the fake degrees at UNC provided absolutely nothing for their athletes. They basically received room and board, which some would argue is enough. However, if they had been free to market their potential, they might have been able to receive large salaries. In the current system, they are explicitly prevented from doing that. I am convinced that many NCAA programs have degrees and classes that are just as worthless as the one that UNC was caught for. If GT adds majors for the express purpose of getting SAs who cannot succeed at GT now, will those SAs have the same potential as the SAs who get in now? I believe the coaches taught a 40 year plan to prospective SAs now. Should the future be to taught a 4 year plan, and then hope to play professional ball? Not every GT SA will graduate, just as not every GT student will graduate. At the moment however, they have the support and potential to be successful. Chase Roberts was injured and didn't compete on the field for long, but watch his address to the donors. I have pride in the character of our SAs. I want the GT system to be set up to develop young SAs in sports and for life. I want to win football games, but I would rather lose than bring in ringers to use for four years and then spit out like trash.

Just one comment as food for thought. Some young men could care less about an education. They wish to learn a trade. That trade is playing football. What's wrong with giving them a degree in that trade? It is honest, you can actually spend "classroom" time educating the young man on matter such as selecting sports agents, managing their finances, etc. They get this or less at most of the other universities the go to. Why not just formalize it and let them choose what they really want? (NB- I do not mean to imply that GT players don't want educations....in fact I think they are the exceptions....I am referring here to factory type players who today will not come to a place like GT)

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Just one comment as food for thought. Some young men could care less about an education. They wish to learn a trade. That trade is playing football. What's wrong with giving them a degree in that trade? It is honest, you can actually spend "classroom" time educating the young man on matter such as selecting sports agents, managing their finances, etc. They get this or less at most of the other universities the go to. Why not just formalize it and let them choose what they really want? (NB- I do not mean to imply that GT players don't want educations....in fact I think they are the exceptions....I am referring here to factory type players who today will not come to a place like GT)

Homer Rice attempted to get a Sports Management degree added at Tech. If I remember correctly, he even convinced The Hill to OK it. Unsurprisingly, it was vetoed by the BOR.

 

[iceeater1969]

Homer Rice attempted to get a Sports Management degree added at Tech. If I remember correctly, he even convinced The Hill to OK it. Unsurprisingly, it was vetoed by the BOR.

Wonder if we should Resubmit as "sports technology and management" ?

 

[RonJohn]

Just one comment as food for thought. Some young men could care less about an education. They wish to learn a trade. That trade is playing football. What's wrong with giving them a degree in that trade? It is honest, you can actually spend "classroom" time educating the young man on matter such as selecting sports agents, managing their finances, etc. They get this or less at most of the other universities the go to. Why not just formalize it and let them choose what they really want? (NB- I do not mean to imply that GT players don't want educations....in fact I think they are the exceptions....I am referring here to factory type players who today will not come to a place like GT)

If that is what they want, then the system should follow the MLB model. Have minor league football teams that the players can play for and earn money. If the guys don't care about an education, then they should not be forced to attend a college to pursue a dream of playing in the NFL. The majority of the players, even the majority of players at Alabama, are never going to play in the NFL. The majority are not going to earn mega-bucks playing professional sports.

For the young men that you are describing who do not care about an education, what are they getting in return for their work on the field, and their names and likenesses on TV? Absolutely nothing of value. No argument can be made that a scholarship has ANY value to them. I personally find it disgusting that some schools use these guys with no intent at developing anything other than their football skills, and then leave them with; worn out bodies, meaningless degrees(if they get one at all), and basically no future unless they make it to the NFL. I have personally seen a five-year scholarship football player from the mutts working as sales associate at a mall store. I have nothing against sales associates, but I believe you can get those jobs straight out of high school. That is from a coach that the fans complain cared too much about his players and their well being.

Enough rambling on: A question I would ask is: If the young man does not care about an education, then why should he go to a University? Why not get paid immediately? Minor league systems could teach players how to manage finances as well as a college can.

 

[alentrekin]

Minor league systems could teach players how to manage finances as well as a college can.

Or player's unions. Thanks for standing up for your position, which I believe is realistic regarding Tech's ambitions and humanistic regarding the SAs.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Wonder if we should Resubmit as "sports technology and management" ?

BOR would still reject it, but I have an idea that Stansbury will be taking an approach like that, since he's a Homer Rice disciple. Sure can't hurt to try.