Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[cthenrys]

It might be more expensive to keep him that fire him.

Part of the calculus also has to be that if he stays to start next season it is highly likely that he doesn’t finish it. That also has an impact. We’ve crossed the rubicon. Everyone is figuring it out - it’s up to ADTS (and the money donors) to do this math and make the call accordingly.

 

[bobongo]

Who’s worse ?

I can't think of anyone.

 

[bobongo]

I was not one of those people you are referring to but here’s why I think they said that. The narrative was that we were improving and close losses were the proof of that. Two people even went so far as to say that if you couldn’t see improvement it was because you just had some kind of anti CGC agenda.

Well, ND exposed that thinking big time. We regressed, the team quit and all the things we have complained about before not only didn’t improve, they got worse.

It looked to me as well that there were players quitting out there. That's a major red flag. We lost 55-0 to a team that barely beat FSU by three in overtime, beat Toledo by three, beat VPI by three, and beat UNC by ten. Their previous biggest win this season was by 28.

 

[bobongo]

Part of the calculus also has to be that if he stays to start next season it is highly likely that he doesn’t finish it. That also has an impact. We’ve crossed the rubicon. Everyone is figuring it out - it’s up to ADTS (and the money donors) to do this math and make the call accordingly.

There's a lot to consider, much more than just the math as things stand now, because the math is likely to change for the worse.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

If Collins stays and we change everyone else we won’t improve. He simply isn’t head coach material. That sequence of timeout, false start, delay, ill- timed snap is the perfect example of his coaching abilities, ie. he doesn’t have any. His team is horrible at all phases of the game. His team can’t tackle, can’t block, can’t pressure, can’t move the ball, can’t kick, can’t cover kicks. The only thing we will remember fondly from the Collins years will be Gibbs. Watching him on Sundays will be fun.

That sequence above out lines his tenure - forced to call a timeout because the coaches decision making process and relay system is slow. False start - players are not scared of making mistakes hence they are lackadaisical in the details. Delay - again, going from 3rd and 2 to 3rd and 7 caused the play to change and with slow decision making on the sideline Yates gets the play late and then hasn’t been taught to refer to the play clock often. And with the so called starter standing on the sidelines with walkons Yates was thrown to the wolves. Bad snap - again, no player is held accountable for being lackadaisical in the details. They Have been coached to be soft and with no repercussions. If that same sequence happeNed at Bama, UGA, Ohio State, or just about anywhere else, those players would have hades to pay. With us they get hugs. And then it happens again and again.

 

[cthenrys]

There's a lot to consider, much more than just the math as things stand now, because the math is likely to change for the worse.

Exactly. It’s almost impossible to imagine any way this gets turned around - staff changes, new recruits, transfer portal, “another year of getting older” - I don’t see how this improves as the problem is at the top.

 

[MidtownJacket]

I’m still in the camp of we can not reasonably fire him this year. The money is too much and the competition from other schools for a new coach is going to be too stiff for us to get a good candidate even if we weren’t under funded and outgunned.

We also have to figure something out because I’m as loyal a fan as you can ask for but I’m coming to dread watching the games. I can accept when we lose to a team that is objectively superior to us (talent on field wise) - sometimes that happens. What drives me nuts is that I see a coach who bends over backwards to ignore questions of accountability and focuses SOLEY on his love for, admiration of and personal relationship with our players. Then you see guys celebrating down 40+ points because their man, who by the way had them beat because they were wildly out of position, doesn’t make a play on the ball thrown his way (because everyone, the receiver, fans in the stands, QB and anyone else vaguely paying attention saw the mismatch and KNEW it’s been there all season). That “juice” is then highlighted by the staff as being elite and what the brand is all about.

I don’t need the guys hanging their heads because they’re losing a game but C’mon man act as if you’re not a clown. Remember when CPJ won at Athens and when asked why he wasn’t grabbing some hedge and acting a fool he said STTE of “I suspect I’ll be back” we miss that attitude tremendously on the flats.

 

[King2b]

I can't think of anyone.

Perhaps Sark at Texas.

 

[VRTechFan]

Nah. Let's not burn down the one thing Collins did right. That coaching tree is poison to players.

The only thing Collins is good at is recruiting and selling his vision to the AD and the donors. Shoot he convinced them to give him money for the extra staff members that he needed to jump start the 404 movement. Just imagine if those same donors gave CPJ the same support. He begged to have more staff for recruiting, but he didn't get what he asked for. Would our recruiting improve? Maybe or maybe not. However, everyone knew that Tech's recruiting budget was the lowest in the conference. The one thing that most would agree is that CPJ could coach up a team with less talent. Imagine if he was given the support. We may have averaged 8 or 9 win seasons and on occasion a special season where we challenge uGA. Oh well...

 

[RamblinRed]

How many fans truly believe we can get a 'big name' HC. That seems completely unrealistic. I think most GT fans have a very irrational take on how good a job the GT HC job actually is.
You have a smaller than average P5 fanbase, a smaller than average P5 budget, and a more restrictive entrance and degree situation than most P5 schools. That's not exactly a great combination. Arguably the only big positive is the recruiting territory but the entrance/degree limitations counteract that some as does the fact that GT has only the 8th largest alumni base in its own city.

Realistically no one that has a better P5 choice is going to take this job. IMO the only candiates GT will have with the next hire are P5 assistants and G5 HC's. You are unlikely to get a current or former P5 HC to come to GT.

This year's defense is destined to be the worse at GT this Century and the 3 defenses under Collins so far will be three of the four worst defenses of this Century. That is completely inescusable for when you hire a 'defensive' HC.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Realistically no one that has a better P5 choice is going to take this job. IMO the only candiates GT will have with the next hire are P5 assistants and G5 HC's. You are unlikely to get a current or former P5 HC to come to GT.

This.

 

[LongforDodd]

I used my prior analysis of the impact of the decline from Chan Gailey attendance levels for games without large, local opponent fan bases like BC @ Grant Field with 51,112 in 2007 to 2021 BC with 31,511.

Here is a larger set of Chan Gailey era details (when GT did not have an option offense, had sound defense, was competitive, went bowling yearly, had star players, and ranked off and on yearly) attendance numbers. As our option days are behind us now - for better or for worse, I do not want a debate of the offense.

Excluding his 1st season when BDS had not yet been expanded to 55K seats, Chan Gailey had 4 of 5 seasons with GT FB home attendance over 50K. In fact, 3 or 5 were over 51K.

Paul Johnson only had 2 of his 11 seasons (2009 & 2015) with over a 50K attendance average. To be fair to Paul, only 2 of his 11 seasons (2012 & 2018) were lower attended on average than Collins’ 1st season.
It must be stated that the QUALITY of both GT’s Opponents scheduled as well as GT’s Competitiveness appear to directly drive the attendance at our games. Also, “Marquee” early games (especially wins or close losses) pay massive dividends to GT attendance - See opening wins of 2003 & 2005 over Auburn win, 2005 over Clemson, 2006 narrow loss to Notre Dame, & 2007 blowout of Notre Dame.

This is also true for Paul Johnson with his amazing 2008 debut season beating Clemson, FSU, Miami, and UGA. The following season, GT FB averaged 51.5K attendance. As our schedule has moved away from playing “traditional power teams early” to scheduling cupcakes, I believe it has definitely hurt attendance.

While I have purchased every year since I moved back to ATL in 1991, it appears that some GT fan have fallen into the habit of only buying season tickets on the years that UGA plays us at Grant Field. This is sad as they are NOT buying basketball season tickets instead.

Even more foreboding, averaging under 35K this season and not having the UGA game to boost sales, 2022 looks to be the lowest attended season in 20+ years - unless we start winning again.

2002 GT FB Home Attendance:
AD Dave Braine
HC Chan Gailey
OC Bill O’Brien
DC John Tenuta
Chan Gailey - 1st Season
*Bobby Dodd Stadium Capacity = 43,719
Marquee Early Wins: Beat Vandy 45-3 & BYU 28-19 to open 2002 with 2 home wins at sold-out BDS after narrow 19-24 loss to Clemson on road.
43,719* – 2002 – Vanderbilt
43,719* – 2002 – BYU
43,719* – 2002 – Wake Forest
42,727* – 2002 – UVA
42,719* – 2002 – Florida State
41,335* – 2002 – Duke
——————————————
43,156* – 2002 – AVG. (98.7%)
*2002 Bobby Dodd Capacity = 43,719

2003 GT FB Home Attendance:
AD Dave Braine
HC Chan Gailey
OC Nix/Geis
DC Tenuta
** 2003+ Bobby Dodd Capacity = 55K
Marquee Early Win: Beat #17 Auburn 14-7 in opener of enlarged 55K-seat Bobby Dodd.
55,000 – 2003 – Auburn
53,189 – 2003 – Clemson
50,113 – 2003 – NC State
51,524 – 2003 – Maryland
52,346 – 2003 – UNC
55,000 – 2003 – UGA
——————————————
55,862** – 2003 – AVG. (96.1%)
** 2003+ Bobby Dodd Capacity = 55K

2004 GT FB Home Attendance:
AD Dave Braine
HC Chan Gailey
OC Nix
DC Tenuta
Calvin Johnson - Freshman Season
Marquee Early Win: Beat #18 Clemson 14-7 in Game 2 in front of 82K at Death Valley.
43,100 – 2004 – Samford
55,000 – 2004 – Miami
46,856 – 2004 – Duke
48,398 – 2004 – Va. Tech (Thursday)
43,577 – 2004 – UConn
43,971 – 2004 – UVA
——————————————
46,817 – 2004 – AVG. (85.1%)

2005 GT FB Home Attendance:
AD Dave Braine
HC Chan Gailey
OC Nix
DC Tenuta
Calvin Johnson - Sophomore Season
Marquee Win: Beat Auburn 23-14 in opener in front of 87,451 at Jordan-Hare.
46,459 – 2005 – UNC
48,770 – 2005 – UConn
51,432 – 2005 – NC State
55,000 – 2005 – Clemson
51,571 – 2005 - Wake Forest
56,412 – 2005 – UGA
——————————————
51,607 – 2005 – AVG. (93.8%)

2006 GT FB Home Attendance:
AD Dan Radakovich
HC Chan Gailey
OC Nix
DC Tenuta
Calvin Johnson - Junior Season (final)
Marquee Early Game: Narrow 10-14 loss to #2 Notre Dame in opener in front of sold-out Bobby Dodd.
56,680 – 2006 – Notre Dame
47,149 – 2006 – Samford
45,637 – 2006 – Troy
51,081 – 2006 – Virginia (Thursday)
51,686 – 2006 – Maryland
55,320 – 2006 – Miami
46,768 – 2006 – Duke
——————————————
50,617 – 2006 – AVG. (92.0%)

2007 GT FB Home Attendance:
AD Dan Radokovich
HC Chan Gailey
OC John Bond
DC Tenuta
Marquee Early Win: Beat Notre Dame 33-3 in opener in front of 87,451 at South Bend.
43,288 – 2007 – Samford
51,112 – 2007 – Boston College
54,635 – 2007 – Clemson
50,242 – 2007 – Army
52,202 – 2007 – Va Tech
54,990 – 2007 – UGA
——————————————
51,078 – 2007 – AVG. (92.9%)

2008-2012 GT FB Home Attendance:
AD Dan Radokovich
HC Paul Johnson
47,489 – 2008 – AVG. (86.3%)
51,584 – 2009 – AVG. (93.8%)
46,449 – 2010 – AVG. (84.5%)
48,232 – 2011 – AVG. (87.7%)
43,955 – 2012 – AVG. (79.9%)

2013-2018 GT FB Home Attendance:
AD Todd Stansbury
HC Paul Johnson
49,077 – 2013 – AVG. (89.2%)
48,519 – 2014 – AVG. (88.2%)
50,707 – 2015 – AVG. (92.2%)
47,503 – 2016 – AVG. (86.4%)
46,885 – 2017 – AVG. (85.2%)
43,087 – 2018 – AVG. (78.3%)

2013-2018 GT FB Home Attendance:
AD Todd Stansbury
HC Geoff Collins
44,599 – 2019 – AVG. (81.1%)
N/A - 2020 COVID-19 IMPACTED
34,956*** – 2021 – AVG. (63.6%) ***w/o UGA

Thanks for this effort but I have a feeling those figures are not "thru the turnstile" numbers.

 

[Vespidae]

How many fans truly believe we can get a 'big name' HC.

We won't. Tech is not an attractive job. We pay ok (not great), but have few resources, a small base and a difficult curriculum. It's not even a stepping stone job anymore. The worst part is we do not have a professional AA operation ... it's still a handful of people calling the shots and working with an administration that is somewhat hostile to athletics. Not a great pitch to make.

 

[Pointer]

Incorrect.

You guys look at three good seasons Johnson had out of 11 years and somehow come to the conclusion that Paul Johnson was the second coming of Bear Bryant.

I point out 6 underperforming to mediocre seasons to counter that argument and you lose your collective minds and say I'm manipulating things.

Paul Johnson was a .580 coach at GT. He wasn't nearly the legend you folks make him out to be. He was, at best, a decent coach. Nothing more.

After all, George O'Leary was a more winning coach than Johnson was with a .612 winning record and you don't even put him in the conversation.

Had Paul jumped ship when Auburn came calling, I wonder how you would feel about his stay here...

George would have had his down seasons as well had he stayed. I also wonder if he would have survived flunk gate.

Paul was a great coach, will be in the hall of Fame no matter how much you hate that. I hope the guys in charge of the next coaching hire have more sense/look at the bigger picture then what we have been hearing from some fans.

 

[GTcanWINagain]

I can't think of anyone.

In actuality, Bill Lewis was better and the AD at the time Dr. Homer Rice took care the his bad hire in the middle of Year 3.

Before the ND slaughter of GT that was nationally-televised, several on here stated that Rice’s move was more reasonable given we were undefeated National Champions in 1990 then having losing seasons in 1992 (5-6), 1993 (5-6), & 1994 (1-7). Rice actually pulled the trigger in November then handed the reins to George O’Leary who he had forced on Lewis during the previous off season. Rice was brilliant to do this, not fall asleep at the AD wheel, keep the pressure on his hire Lewis, and “protect the plan” of having a competent coach at GT. This last point of managing the downside is the mark of a true leader.

 

[wrmathis]

You can appreciate both coaches, I think most GT fans do. Yes some get frustrated with O'Leary leaving for ND but that is part of being a fan and believing in your team.

Most Johnson supporters would be more amiable to Collins if he had been a bit more gracious to Johnson in the transition. But he and Key both identified the previous culture and approach as the problem and that created unnecessary friction.

We should also mention that Key and Collins openly discuss their O'Leary connection acting as if it is the only recent success and O'Leary does not seem to mind this point so that might rub some Tech fans the wrong way.

Bottom line, when you have to tear down others to build up yourself it will eventually create issues - if Collins would have taken the approach he was going to build on the good then he would likely have more support during these challenging times.

well, O'Leary is a liar and a scumbag. LIar for the whole ND resume BS. and for basically killing a player

"On March 18, 2008, running back Ereck Plancher died after conditioning drills. According to four UCF football players interviewed by the Orlando Sentinel, Coach O'Leary verbally abused Plancher throughout the workout, and continued to push the young man to perform despite what they reported to be obvious physical signs that Plancher was in no shape to continue.[14] According to the four unnamed players, O'Leary cursed at Plancher in a post-workout huddle. Plancher collapsed shortly after the workout and was immediately attended by UCF athletic trainers. He was then transported to a nearby hospital where he died approximately one hour later. Subsequent to the Orlando Sentinel article, ESPN's "Outside The Lines" program on November 2, 2008 interviewed players who were at the training session at which Plancher became ill and after which he died; they stated that the session was longer and far more rigorous than O'Leary and other UCF Athletics officials have admitted to publicly. They also alleged that O'Leary and other coaches had initially warned players against providing assistance to Plancher when he became visibly distressed. UCF medical records indicate that UCF coaches and trainers knew that Plancher had a sickle-cell trait which could lead to problems, and even death, during high-intensity workouts.[15] After a 14-day trial in 2011, a jury found the UCF Athletics Association guilty of negligence in the death of Plancher. The jury awarded each of his parents $5 million.[16] The award was subsequently reduced to $200,000 by the Fifth District Court of Appeals, which ruled that the UCF Athletics Association is subject to sovereign immunity under Florida law"

 

[ChicagobasedJacket]

How many fans truly believe we can get a 'big name' HC. That seems completely unrealistic. I think most GT fans have a very irrational take on how good a job the GT HC job actually is.
You have a smaller than average P5 fanbase, a smaller than average P5 budget, and a more restrictive entrance and degree situation than most P5 schools. That's not exactly a great combination. Arguably the only big positive is the recruiting territory but the entrance/degree limitations counteract that some as does the fact that GT has only the 8th largest alumni base in its own city.

Realistically no one that has a better P5 choice is going to take this job. IMO the only candiates GT will have with the next hire are P5 assistants and G5 HC's. You are unlikely to get a current or former P5 HC to come to GT.

This year's defense is destined to be the worse at GT this Century and the 3 defenses under Collins so far will be three of the four worst defenses of this Century. That is completely inescusable for when you hire a 'defensive' HC.

I agree with most of what you said. Where does the stat about the 8th largest alumni base in Atlanta come from?

 

[Sheboygan]

I still feel the vast majority of the blame for the hire rests at the feet of TStan. Nothing personal, in his 5 years he has done a fairly good job- Fortner was a good choice.
FWIW, I think he punted on third down ( panicked) , because he was convinced that CGC was his best available. CGC did have some positives - his experience with top coaches and programs. But his longevity with any particular position would have been a red flag for me. Sometimes , it takes more than a year for all the shortcomings to show up. 4 years at his alma mater ( 2002-2005) stand out as the exception to any longevity.
Of all the coaching hires for an AD, Football HC is usually the most vital, because it has the most financial influence. A 7 year contract was ridiculous, IMO. He should have been given a 4 year contract, with option to renegotiate AFTER year 3. How would that be working out about now ?

 

[Pointer]

I still feel the vast majority of the blame for the hire rests at the feet of TStan. Nothing personal, in his 5 years he has done a fairly good job- Fortner was a good choice.
FWIW, I think he punted on third down ( panicked) , because he was convinced that CGC was his best available. CGC did have some positives - his experience with top coaches and programs. But his longevity with any particular position would have been a red flag for me. Sometimes , it takes more than a year for all the shortcomings to show up. 4 years at his alma mater ( 2002-2005) stand out as the exception to any longevity.
Of all the coaching hires for an AD, Football HC is usually the most vital, because it has the most financial influence. A 7 year contract was ridiculous, IMO. He should have been given a 4 year contract, with option to renegotiate AFTER year 3. How would that be working out about now ?

I've made plenty of mistakes in my life, haven't you?

Look at the bigger picture regarding TStan. He's done allot of good as well. Undone plenty of crap MBob did as well.

 

[GTcanWINagain]

Thanks for this effort but I have a feeling those figures are not "thru the turnstile" numbers.

All we have.