Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[Gomez Adams]

I don't want us to make a move without a plan.

 

[Gomez Adams]

If you have to exclude multiple good seasons to make your point, your point is wrong.

Incorrect.

You guys look at three good seasons Johnson had out of 11 years and somehow come to the conclusion that Paul Johnson was the second coming of Bear Bryant.

I point out 6 underperforming to mediocre seasons to counter that argument and you lose your collective minds and say I'm manipulating things.

Paul Johnson was a .580 coach at GT. He wasn't nearly the legend you folks make him out to be. He was, at best, a decent coach. Nothing more.

After all, George O'Leary was a more winning coach than Johnson was with a .612 winning record and you don't even put him in the conversation.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Well, ND exposed that thinking big time. We regressed, the team quit and all the things we have complained about before not only didn’t improve, they got worse. These included but were not limited to: poor game management with time outs, substitutions, the clock and penalties; pedestrian play calling; players out of position and opposing receivers running free; slow play, lack of aggression and being physically whipped; looking like no real preparation was done for ND schemes and play calling.

I'm not sure why you would believe that. We were losing close games to teams we were roughly equal to. We were always going to get blown out by ND and uga. Add in the fact that we are still missing our best QB, and it was a recipe for the disaster that unfolded. Next week will be no better.

Per Sagarin, ND is 5th in the nation. uga is 1st. Our SoS jumped from 55th to 41st after our game with ND. It will climb even higher next week. Even if we have beaten NIU, BC, UVA, and Miami and entered the game against ND 7-3, we were going to get curb stomped.

Now, none of that is to dismiss the poor play of the defense. Thacker needs to be fired at the end of the season. The offensive issues are a "bit" more understandable considering the lack of P5 depth on the OL, backup QB, and the opponent having a top 10 defense. The ND offense is good, but not THAT good. I still retain some confidence that we can win next season, but at a minimum we need a new DC to make that happen.

 

[jgtengineer]

Incorrect.

You guys look at three good seasons Johnson had out of 11 years and somehow come to the conclusion that Paul Johnson was the second coming of Bear Bryant.

I point out 6 underperforming to mediocre seasons to counter that argument and you lose your collective minds and say I'm manipulating things.

Paul Johnson was a .580 coach at GT. He wasn't nearly the legend you folks make him out to be. He was, at best, a decent coach. Nothing more.

After all, George O'Leary was a more winning coach than Johnson was with a .612 winning record and you don't even put him in the conversation.

O'leary coached half the time. If johnson had actually bolted for one of the teams interviewing him after 2014 like o'leary tried to do for ND. Would you see him the same way as o'leary?

 

[Gomez Adams]

O'leary coached half the time. If johnson had actually bolted for one of the teams interviewing him after 2014 like o'leary tried to do for ND. Would you see him the same way as o'leary?

So now you resort to the "what if" game.

"What if" O'Leary had continued coaching at Tech and won even more?

See how that works?

 

[JacketintheNati]

Incorrect.

You guys look at three good seasons Johnson had out of 11 years and somehow come to the conclusion that Paul Johnson was the second coming of Bear Bryant.

I point out 6 underperforming to mediocre seasons to counter that argument and you lose your collective minds and say I'm manipulating things.

Paul Johnson was a .580 coach at GT. He wasn't nearly the legend you folks make him out to be. He was, at best, a decent coach. Nothing more.

After all, George O'Leary was a more winning coach than Johnson was with a .612 winning record and you don't even put him in the conversation.

You can appreciate both coaches, I think most GT fans do. Yes some get frustrated with O'Leary leaving for ND but that is part of being a fan and believing in your team.

Most Johnson supporters would be more amiable to Collins if he had been a bit more gracious to Johnson in the transition. But he and Key both identified the previous culture and approach as the problem and that created unnecessary friction.

We should also mention that Key and Collins openly discuss their O'Leary connection acting as if it is the only recent success and O'Leary does not seem to mind this point so that might rub some Tech fans the wrong way.

Bottom line, when you have to tear down others to build up yourself it will eventually create issues - if Collins would have taken the approach he was going to build on the good then he would likely have more support during these challenging times.

 

[ramblin_man]

Do you think GT can even step into the arena of the “hiring pool” of potential HC candidates with so many bigger programs in HC searching modes themselves?
If CGC really loves GT he would either 1) make BIG changes to the coaching staff on both sides of the ball. 2)Restructuring his contract for not meeting standards of progress within 3 years. 3) Restructuring his buyout clause because he’s really putting a hurt on GT Football and it’s no where near “elite” results. 4) Have a honest look at himself in the mirror and resign because he’s “talked his way into a job that he’s not able to handle” because it’s too big for him at this point in his career and call Saban to see if he can his recruiting coordinator or brand manager (lol kidding about the last part). 5) Nothing changes and he will do a glorified “drip walk” at the end of next year with suitcases full of and graphics of WH, Bobby Dodd, and GT Football brand going up in claiming we weren’t ready to be “elite”?

 

[Gomez Adams]

Do you think GT can even step into the arena of the “hiring pool” of potential HC candidates with so many bigger programs in HC searching modes themselves?

You make a good point. There are what, 8 brand name colleges looking for head coaches right now?

Much as I hate it, now is not the time to replace Collins. All we'd wind up doing is getting someone off the merry-go-round of coaches jockeying for one of the chairs before the music stops.

It may be that we suffer one more year of this before the ax falls.

 

[jayparr]

Does Collins give out trophies every game to go along with all the hype?

 

[jgtengineer]

So now you resort to the "what if" game.

"What if" O'Leary had continued coaching at Tech and won even more?

See how that works?

Seeing that we ended up on probation for o'leary and chan had to deal with it we can actually kinda see why he was bolting. If he had won more that would have been great. However... 2002 was mostly with o'leary recruits and bill o brien was still the OC so im not sure how different it would have been than 7-6, we also lost 7-51 to UGA that year.

 

[ramblin_man]

You make a good point. There are what, 8 brand name colleges looking for head coaches right now?

Much as I hate it, now is not the time to replace Collins. All we'd wind up doing is getting someone off the merry-go-round of coaches jockeying for one of the chairs before the music stops.

It may be that we suffer one more year of this before the ax falls.

The catch 22 is of course the HC that are making good strides their ADs are revamping their HC contracts or the HC is revamping their assistants’ contracts which make it far more EXPENSIVE for other college programs to come in an poach their coaches. We’re in a very tough position with the buyout clause for early termination of CGC contracts much less to afford to peel away a big time HC candidate in a hiring pool of other college programs (with DEEP pockets) much less afford the buyout clause attached to the coaches if that “said candidate” leaves for being hired away. Who is gonna write that check? Any GT Alum got a treasure chest full of Bitcoin they’re looking to unload?

 

[jgtengineer]

You make a good point. There are what, 8 brand name colleges looking for head coaches right now?

Much as I hate it, now is not the time to replace Collins. All we'd wind up doing is getting someone off the merry-go-round of coaches jockeying for one of the chairs before the music stops.

It may be that we suffer one more year of this before the ax falls.

We might get lucky and someone else buys his BS, and he just says the reason it didn't work was the option.

 

[Vespidae]

You make a good point. There are what, 8 brand name colleges looking for head coaches right now?

Much as I hate it, now is not the time to replace Collins. All we'd wind up doing is getting someone off the merry-go-round of coaches jockeying for one of the chairs before the music stops.

It may be that we suffer one more year of this before the ax falls.

Much as I hate to admit it, Collins is here for a while. The normal process is for a university is to raise prices $5 and pay the buyout. At Tennessee, that instantly nets $4 million a year. Throw on the revolver and you can swing a $12-15M buyout without breaking a sweat. Tech can't. With 22,000 STH, we would net around $700K, which means we could afford, at best ... a buyout of about $3.5M unless Geoff landed a similar gig. Which he won't. So firing him is not an option.

TStan should think NOW about a slate of candidates that will be available in 2 years and start schmoozing them today. If he could make a hire that could "consult" the football program, you would have someone who is slowly familiarizes themselves with the community. Personally, I think anyone with NFL experience is a plus because that is the offer that TStan/Geoff came up with and we might as well see it through.

I still like the idea of restructuring Collins' contract but there is no reason for Geoff to agree. He can take the money and go work in the front office of an NFL team, which is what we has often said he would do anyway if college didn't work out.

Regardless, TStan can't do NOTHING. He is going to have to do one thing (fire Geoff) or another (surround him with others) to try, as much as possible, to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

[okiemon]

4. Eliminate "burn" and "elite" from your vocabulary. Talk like an adult.

I agree with all of your suggestions. I would also like to never hear “high level” again. He also needs to learn to talk in complete sentences, instead of “Really, really proud” or “Fought really really hard.”

Just a couple of my pet peeves; unfortunately they don’t affect the results.

 

[tmhunter52]

Top 30 recruiting coupled bottom 30 coaching doesn’t age well.

“Bottom 30 coaching” is charitable, actually

 

[GTLorenzo]

Incorrect.

You guys look at three good seasons Johnson had out of 11 years and somehow come to the conclusion that Paul Johnson was the second coming of Bear Bryant.

I point out 6 underperforming to mediocre seasons to counter that argument and you lose your collective minds and say I'm manipulating things.

Paul Johnson was a .580 coach at GT. He wasn't nearly the legend you folks make him out to be. He was, at best, a decent coach. Nothing more.

After all, George O'Leary was a more winning coach than Johnson was with a .612 winning record and you don't even put him in the conversation.

Paul Johnson is a HOF coach for what he did at Georgia Southern, Navy and GT. He took us to two Orange Bowls and multiple ACC Championship games. He gave us an advantage on gameday in most situations. He didn't recruit well and 2008 and 2009 showed what he could do with top level talent. He took us places we hadn't been in 40+ years. Overall, he was a consistent winner with two really down years, but kept us competitive and in bowls nearly every year. He's gone now.

I believe you think that everyone is making him out to be Saban with us in the national title hunt every year and that is not the case. He ran a unique offense and if he could've found the right QB, could've likely continued to win a lot of games. No one is saying he was Bear Bryant. But they are saying he kept us competitive and in bowl games year in and year out, with the opportunity to have a magical year now and then (2009, 2014). I think realistically, that is what most Tech fans expect. Be competitive, go to bowl games and when the stars align, put it all together and see if you can make a big run.

Going from consistent bowl games to 3 wins a year when most anyone on this forum could come up to multiple things that Collins did or is doing wrong, either from a football perspective or a "fans" perspective is not a really good place to be. Just a short list and I'm sure others could add a lot more.

1. Not formulating some type of offense to take advantage of the players he inherited. Just mind boggling to me. He effectively gave up on any chance of winning in Year 1 or 2 trying to fit square pegs into round holes.
2. Not having an experienced assistant to help him with game planning, game management, in game corrections for a staff that is clearly not ready for P5 football.
3. The marketing stuff has generally been good, but knowing when to tone it down has not been there at all.
4. Money Down. This has just been comical. I get the reasoning, but my God, if we do that stupid schtick this Saturday after not stopping anyone for three years, I may just walk out of the stadium. Leading to.....
5. He can't read the room. No consideration for the fans of the team. Takes no blame. "it's only about the guys in that locker room...." No, it isn't. It's about the entire program, including the fans who you have totally lost. I think it was after The Citadel game two years ago when I said he needs to take the blame, say we'll get better, it's on us coaches, etc. and was told by fonts here that "he's not talking to you, he doesn't care about you, he's talking to recruits." Well, how's that working out for you.
6. He HAS to come out in the press conference tomorrow and after the mauling on Saturday and say "it's on me and the coaching staff. We're going to get it fixed. I take full responsibility for where we are as a program and I say to the fans, stick with us, the coaches and players are going to work 24/7 to get this corrected and bring back winning football to Georgia Tech. Any thank you to the fans who have stuck with us and to those that are frustrated, we'll get there and we'll make corrections to get back to where we should be." JUST SAY IT! Acknowledge the pain and suffering so many are going through.

I'll leave with this, I really like Pastner a lot. He's kind of goofy, but you could tell from Year 1 he was still learning how to be a head coach and use his players to their best abilities. Cremins was kind of goofy as well, but he was our guy and he understood what to say after a loss. I've emailed with Pastner a bit, telling good job after a big win or whatever. He ALWAYS responds. ALWAYS. I sent him a quick request for an email or short video when my father turned 90 earlier this year and we couldn't get a big group together, so we reached out to some people to get some notes, emails, etc. Within 20 minutes, Pastner sent me a 2 minute video for my dad talking about his nearly 70 years of support for Tech, nearly 70 year season ticket holder, etc. He gets it. Not arrogant. Doesn't think he's the smartest guy in the room. He's in on the joke.

Collins doesn't realize that right now, he IS the joke. Sad.

 

[southernhive]

So now you resort to the "what if" game.

"What if" O'Leary had continued coaching at Tech and won even more?

See how that works?

O'Leary left us for his dream job. You need to get over O'Leary love fest.
See how that works?

 

[bobongo]

“Bottom 30 coaching” is charitable, actually

I wish our coaching was bottom 30.
I think it might be the bottom one.

 

[bobongo]

Much as I hate to admit it, Collins is here for a while. The normal process is for a university is to raise prices $5 and pay the buyout. At Tennessee, that instantly nets $4 million a year. Throw on the revolver and you can swing a $12-15M buyout without breaking a sweat. Tech can't. With 22,000 STH, we would net around $700K, which means we could afford, at best ... a buyout of about $3.5M unless Geoff landed a similar gig. Which he won't. So firing him is not an option.

TStan should think NOW about a slate of candidates that will be available in 2 years and start schmoozing them today. If he could make a hire that could "consult" the football program, you would have someone who is slowly familiarizes themselves with the community. Personally, I think anyone with NFL experience is a plus because that is the offer that TStan/Geoff came up with and we might as well see it through.

I still like the idea of restructuring Collins' contract but there is no reason for Geoff to agree. He can take the money and go work in the front office of an NFL team, which is what we has often said he would do anyway if college didn't work out.

Regardless, TStan can't do NOTHING. He is going to have to do one thing (fire Geoff) or another (surround him with others) to try, as much as possible, to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

It might be more expensive to keep him that fire him.

 

[cthenrys]

I wish our coaching was bottom 30.
I think it might be the bottom one.

Who’s worse ?