Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,339
Location
Auburn, AL
If you think about it, TStan would have to get the msg out that the $$ were available for the buyout for the sake of the program validity going forward. My spidey senses tells me the $$ were not there. Maybe, someone is committing a million more to help with staff changes, but I doubt 10 million was available for HC buyout. But, it is just an opinion.
I was reading about Miami hiring Kiffin. The Athletic Department announced a $20M increase in funding. But "announcing" and "having" are two different things. (And Kiffin isn't going to Miami.)
 

orientalnc

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
10,037
Location
Oriental, NC
I have nothing against Ken, but he does better on human interest type stories than stories that rely on hard facts. I enjoy reading his articles about players and their issues/achievements. I am always skeptical of information that he publishes based on verifiable numbers.
Can you give an instance where KS published "facts" you thought were wrong when you tried to verify them? I don't mean "facts" that did not sound right but you could not verify or refute.

My view of KS is that he is a conscientious reporter who is not as pro-Tech as we would like. I think his analysis is the weakest part of his writing. But, he is the only writer at the AJC who ever says anything positive about GT, so let's not forget he is constantly swimming upstream at that paper.
 
Last edited:

Techwood Relict

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,505
I would have measuables for the entire retained staff. Don't anyone think they did not contribute to the results we saw on the field this year.
The engineer in me wants to know what the measurables are currently or have been, in addition to what they will be next year.
My current boss has a plaque on the wall that says, "Try not to suck". That'd be a good start....
 

Richard7125

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
465
Ken Suguira and the AJC editors put that in the article. He might not have great insight about X’s and O’s, but you would thing a newspaper would at least check those numbers before printing them


Also, this sentence is kind of vague, but I’d expect some announcements over the next few weeks for something.


If there are staff changes, I wonder if they’re only replacement coaches, or if they’re O’Leary-type hires where “you fix this, or that person will take over”.



That’s not what I meant, but if Saturday is bad enough then it could be in the realm of possibilities. Like you said earlier, if this becomes (more of) a Cabrera problem, then circumstances change.

I think Stansbury has done a better job in a lot of areas than his predecessors, and the AA is a reclamation job that needs a lot of time to turn around, but you can’t let a major structural problem go unaddressed, and plaster doesn’t solve everything.

I mean, based on “we’re going to work together to get those things fixed” that
  1. There are no changes or more minor changes in staff, and we see only superficial changes. In that case, we’ll have a number of upset donors and fans…OR
  2. There are some major changes, but different than we expect….OR
  3. There are the changes we expect in staffing, but the general processes stay in place (“Money Down”, etc.)…OR
  4. We have a lot more changes under and around Collins than expected
I also have to wonder if contract renegotiations like Frost and Harbaugh happen; I think that’s unlikely, but it seemed unlikely when Frost and Harbaugh agreed to them, too.

There’s also the question of Stansbury’s statements over the last few months—how much are just talking points and spin, vs how much does Stansbury believe in them? For example, does he really see progress that hasn’t turned into wins? Or is that what he is saying to stabilize fan interest and season ticket sales? If it’s the latter, would he be better off saying something more earnest and making major promises of change?

With the old “three letters” coaching story, Stansbury is reusing the first letter a lot, instead of realizing that he’s hit letter #2 by now, at least.

Collins $23.1m contract is completely guaranteed if fired prior to the end of his 4th season (which is Dec 12, 2022 I think). Tech's liability is greatly reduced after Dec 12, 2022.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,044
Can you give an instance where KS published "facts" you thought were wrong when you tried to verify them? I don't mean "facts" that did not sound right but you could not verify or refute.

My view of KS is that he is a conscientious reporter who is not as pro-Tech as we would like. I think his analysis is the weakest part of his writing. But, he is the only writer at the AJC who ever says anything positive about GT, so let's not forget he is constantly swimming upstream at that paper.
What about an instance where KS wrote something that is disputed by something that KS himself wrote before? In 2019, he wrote that:
Georgia Tech coach Geoff Collins’ seven-year contract averages $3.3 million and begins at $3 million for the 2019 season, about $152,000 less than former coach Paul Johnson was scheduled to make in this coming season. Collins’ pay will increase by $100,000 over the life of his seven-year contract, finishing at $3.6 million in 2025.
........If he were to be fired within the first four years, Collins would receive 100 percent of the remaining value of the deal. After that, he would receive $2.4 million for each remaining season. For example, if he were dismissed at the end of the fifth season with two years left, he would receive $4.8 million.

Yesterday he wrote that the payout after this year would be $10.5 million. The full contract (which is the buyout according to KS in the previous article) would be larger than $13.2 million.

As I said earlier, I have nothing against him, and I do enjoy his people focused articles. I don't expect a beat writer for any team to be pro or anti the team they are covering. I don't think KS is biased towards or against GT. He is pretty fair in his coverage. I also don't know that he frequently is incorrect on facts, but what I said is that I am skeptical of facts he publishes. For me personally, I don't believe factual type information simply because KS publishes it.
 

stech81

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,957
Location
Woodstock Georgia
Can you give an instance where KS published "facts" you thought were wrong when you tried to verify them? I don't mean "facts" that did not sound right but you could not verify or refute.

My view of KS is that he is a conscientious reporter who is not as pro-Tech as we would like. I think his analysis is the weakest part of his writing. But, he is the only writer at the AJC who ever says anything positive about GT, so let's not forget he is constantly swimming upstream at that paper.
I got to say it would be hard to write much about the good the last 3 years.
 

Richard7125

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
465
If you think about it, TStan would have to get the msg out that the $$ were available for the buyout for the sake of the program validity going forward. My spidey senses tells me the $$ were not there. Maybe, someone is committing a million more to help with staff changes, but I doubt 10 million was available for HC buyout. But, it is just an opinion.

I still don't think the $10.5m number is correct. I'm pretty sure we have only paid Collins (roughly) $9.3m of his $23.1m contract. His contract is completely guaranteed prior to the end of his 4th season. That makes the buyout $13.8m right now.
 

orientalnc

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
10,037
Location
Oriental, NC
What about an instance where KS wrote something that is disputed by something that KS himself wrote before? In 2019, he wrote that:


Yesterday he wrote that the payout after this year would be $10.5 million. The full contract (which is the buyout according to KS in the previous article) would be larger than $13.2 million.

As I said earlier, I have nothing against him, and I do enjoy his people focused articles. I don't expect a beat writer for any team to be pro or anti the team they are covering. I don't think KS is biased towards or against GT. He is pretty fair in his coverage. I also don't know that he frequently is incorrect on facts, but what I said is that I am skeptical of facts he publishes. For me personally, I don't believe factual type information simply because KS publishes it.
I am not sure I understand where all the numbers are coming from, but Ken's article yesterday said, "according to the terms of his memorandum of understanding." I don't know if that is different from CGC's contract or if is just another name for the contract. But, it would be interesting to know which is correct.
 

orientalnc

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
10,037
Location
Oriental, NC
I still don't think the $10.5m number is correct. I'm pretty sure we have only paid Collins (roughly) $9.3m of his $23.1m contract. His contract is completely guaranteed prior to the end of his 4th season. That makes the buyout $13.8m right now.
I think you are correct, but it could be the AA has already moved his 2022 amount into a different account and is totally obligated for that either way. It seems the wording is off, but I don't know when money is paid and how is accounted for at the AA.

It also could simply be a mistake.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,724
The beat writer Ken S., claims that staff changes could be coming as soon as Sunday.
You’ve reached a certain point as a Tech fan when you can spell Ken’s last name correctly from memory…

But that’s not surprising news. It’s murky as to what changes and how many changes are involved.

I was reading about Miami hiring Kiffin. The Athletic Department announced a $20M increase in funding. But "announcing" and "having" are two different things. (And Kiffin isn't going to Miami.)

He would kill it at Miami, but the Ole Miss $$$ are too much. He seems to be the first Ole Miss coach to win 10 regular season games in “ever”.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,044
I am not sure I understand where all the numbers are coming from, but Ken's article yesterday said, "according to the terms of his memorandum of understanding." I don't know if that is different from CGC's contract or if is just another name for the contract. But, it would be interesting to know which is correct.
My understanding from the article yesterday is that the "memorandum of understanding" was in the possession of "a person familiar with the situation". Does that person actually have full knowledge of the situation? Is the "memorandum of understanding" an official GTAA document or is it something that some donors or some group of fans put together? Does "Stansbury did have at his disposal the resources to make a change had he decided it was necessary" mean that TStan has hard pledges that the money will be provided if he makes a change, or is it based on discussions that this "person familiar with the situation" had with friends and he believes that the money could be raised?

I am always skeptical when I read articles. (not only about sports, but in general) There are enough questions about this article that I won't put much faith in the "facts" unless I get further confirmation. I don't know where the conflicting numbers are coming from, as you indicate you don't. I don't know who this person is. I don't know what this person actually said word for word. I don't know where this person got his information. I don't have enough information about the information or source to believe it.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,724
Most of us are basing our comments about the buyout from articles that were written in 2018/19, some of them by Suguira. Now, we have a more recent article by Ken saying it’s $10.5 million.

No one is saying that they’ve actually looked at the contract, or that they’re aware of any updates to the contract.

All things being even, more recent information is usually better.
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,033
The engineer in me wants to know what the measurables are currently or have been, in addition to what they will be next year.
My current boss has a plaque on the wall that says, "Try not to suck". That'd be a good start....
The first thing most engineers do is identify the problem. Then define it. Finally work on the solution. If you can't define it you can't fix it. Doing nothing is not an option.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,724
Here’s the latest Suguira write up:


Re: staff changes

After the Georgia game, Collins is expected to start on his fix-it list. The reality that changes are coming to his 10-man assistant coaching staff is “baked in stone,”

The write up indicates multiple changes, possibly including coordinators.

Changes could happen before the weekend is over.

I’d recommend reading the article. It reads as if he’s triple-checked his sources and done his homework.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,388
Here’s the latest Suguira write up:


Re: staff changes



The write up indicates multiple changes, possibly including coordinators.



I’d recommend reading the article. It reads as if he’s triple-checked his sources and done his homework.

Read that article this morning. Makes me wonder if CGC has already reached out and maybe gotten commitments for potential assistants and coordinators.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
Can you give an instance where KS published "facts" you thought were wrong when you tried to verify them? I don't mean "facts" that did not sound right but you could not verify or refute.

My view of KS is that he is a conscientious reporter who is not as pro-Tech as we would like. I think his analysis is the weakest part of his writing. But, he is the only writer at the AJC who ever says anything positive about GT, so let's not forget he is constantly swimming upstream at that paper.
Well, this about that: three years, nine wins and it ain't looking better. The positive thing I suppose is that we don't play more games,.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,044
Read that article this morning. Makes me wonder if CGC has already reached out and maybe gotten commitments for potential assistants and coordinators.
If they haven’t, it’s a red flag.
I think it is also likely that TStan has been having informal conversations about replacements for CGC. Not saying that he is looking to replace him at the moment, but there is a decent chance at this point that he will have to next year. Also, if informal conversations turned up an opportunity for a big name coach who was willing to come here, he could take that to the donors to see if he could raise the funds for the buyout and for the big name coach. Once again, not saying that will happen but it definitely will not happen if he isn't having the discussions.
 
Top