Moses Wright next year

[YlJacket]

I actually agree with most of what you have said. It's not that I think Wright had to take the 3s in general, it's that I think he had to take some with the way that we were using him. You're right that his guy was clogging the middle. That would be true just as much if he refused to take 3 point shots. The only real way, with what we were doing, for us to draw his man out of the lane was for him to make those shots. But in order for that to happen he had to be willing to take those shots. It wasn't ideal, like any number of other things we did last year, and I don't even think it was the only thing we could have done, but I don't think him taking those shots shows a lack of understanding of what he can and can't do either. I think it was a result of trying to make the most out of a bad situation.

I actually think the best use of him would be as a pick and roll partner with Okogie, or next year Alvarado and Devoe. This year that wouldn't have really meshed well with how we were using Ben, but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw it more next year.

I would pick at your logic only to this extent - you don't have to take 3's to open the lane - you only have to take shots the other team thinks you can make. If it is 15 feet on the wing/baseline then do that and things open up. If you are quick you can still beat the help to the basket. I think this is what CJP was getting at when he was telling Moses not to shoot 3's. Get in a place where the other team cannot ignore you - as they do when you want to jack 3's ala Enloe HS - and make yourself available to shoot or blow by the close out. It won't be perfection but going all the way to the 3 point line simply means I can ignore Moses.

 

[RamblinRed]

i hope he blows up next year, but i'm not counting on it.
i think that is more likely as a JR or SR if it happens.

College basketball is littered with kids who are 6'9 and athletic who never gain appreciable basketball skills.

His ceiling his really high, but his floor is really low. He's sort of the ultimate risk/reward kid.

If he is in the process of changing his shot that would make sense to me as his current shooting style is not very good.

I also question the motor comment a little bit and it is partly why i think Evan is currently in front of him. Pastner mentioned early in the ACC season he would not play Evan or Moses because they were not practicing hard enough.
He mentioned late in the season that Evan was ahead of Moses partly because he understood better how hard you have to play.

Moses has the highest upside of any big we have on the team right now, but he is also at the lowest point of any big on the team right now in terms of actual skill level and ability to make a difference on the court. it will be fascinating to watch the next 3 yrs and see how much of that gap he can close.

 

[orientalnc]

i hope he blows up next year, but i'm not counting on it.
i think that is more likely as a JR or SR if it happens.

College basketball is littered with kids who are 6'9 and athletic who never gain appreciable basketball skills.

His ceiling his really high, but his floor is really low. He's sort of the ultimate risk/reward kid.

If he is in the process of changing his shot that would make sense to me as his current shooting style is not very good.

I also question the motor comment a little bit and it is partly why i think Evan is currently in front of him. Pastner mentioned early in the ACC season he would not play Evan or Moses because they were not practicing hard enough.
He mentioned late in the season that Evan was ahead of Moses partly because he understood better how hard you have to play.

Moses has the highest upside of any big we have on the team right now, but he is also at the lowest point of any big on the team right now in terms of actual skill level and ability to make a difference on the court. it will be fascinating to watch the next 3 yrs and see how much of that gap he can close.

The thing that was hardest for me to learn was how hard you have to practice. Apparently that has been an issue with Moses also.

 

[lv20gt]

I would pick at your logic only to this extent - you don't have to take 3's to open the lane - you only have to take shots the other team thinks you can make. If it is 15 feet on the wing/baseline then do that and things open up. If you are quick you can still beat the help to the basket. I think this is what CJP was getting at when he was telling Moses not to shoot 3's. Get in a place where the other team cannot ignore you - as they do when you want to jack 3's ala Enloe HS - and make yourself available to shoot or blow by the close out. It won't be perfection but going all the way to the 3 point line simply means I can ignore Moses.

There are a lot of things that could be done while looking at him in a vacuum. But the issue is that how many of those would work in the context of what we were trying to do as a team. Him being 15 feet out on the wing makes it that much harder by design to run our cuts off Ben in the high post. And if he's on the baseline then when he gets the ball there he's more prone to getting trapped and put into a bad situation. Plus neither of those things are concepts we really incorporate into our offense. Ben pretty much had a monopoly in the mid range game and we only really seemed to use the baseline on plays specifically designed for Tad. So Wright doing what you are suggesting imo would basically be a freshman freelancing which isn't usually what you want. I think that's especially true when you look at how Gueye was used early in the season, before we put him in the post. I don't think our offense was designed this year for our 4 spot to play inside the 3 point line like you're suggesting, and I think acting like Wright should have done so is ignoring context.

Also, if we were going to just limit him to be within 15 feet all the time, why would we play him instead of Gueye? Maybe it would be just for experience, but I don't think so. I think the staff believed Wright was more likely to be able to draw the defense out than Gueye. I also believe the staff told him he needed to make him self a threat out there, in contrast to the problem we had earlier. It's not like he was out there gunning away from deep. In the ooc he only had two games where he shot more than one 3. He had 3 against Wofford with one being at the end of a shot clock. The other was against Wright state and I believe both, or at least one, was at the end of a shot clock. It wasn't until he came back that in the last 8 games that he shot more 3s, 6 multi attempt games out of 8. I think Wright knew that it wasn't the best choice for him to shoot 3s. But I think he also understood that with the injuries we had we needed him to try.

Also, I want to point something out. In the last 8 games, once Jose went out, Wright was 1-20 from 3. In his last 7 games, once he came back from injury, Haywood was 4-20 from 3, and the only real difference was Haywood got a game where he was hot and wen't 3/4. Otherwise he was jacking and missing a lot as well. And no, my point isn't that they are equal shooters, but I don't think it's really fair to label Wright as a guy who absolutely can't shoot 3s based on an 8 game stretch against ACC competition after having basically not played any significant minutes in 12 games.

 

[orientalnc]

There are a lot of things that could be done while looking at him in a vacuum. But the issue is that how many of those would work in the context of what we were trying to do as a team. Him being 15 feet out on the wing makes it that much harder by design to run our cuts off Ben in the high post. And if he's on the baseline then when he gets the ball there he's more prone to getting trapped and put into a bad situation. Plus neither of those things are concepts we really incorporate into our offense. Ben pretty much had a monopoly in the mid range game and we only really seemed to use the baseline on plays specifically designed for Tad. So Wright doing what you are suggesting imo would basically be a freshman freelancing which isn't usually what you want. I think that's especially true when you look at how Gueye was used early in the season, before we put him in the post. I don't think our offense was designed this year for our 4 spot to play inside the 3 point line like you're suggesting, and I think acting like Wright should have done so is ignoring context.

Also, if we were going to just limit him to be within 15 feet all the time, why would we play him instead of Gueye? Maybe it would be just for experience, but I don't think so. I think the staff believed Wright was more likely to be able to draw the defense out than Gueye. I also believe the staff told him he needed to make him self a threat out there, in contrast to the problem we had earlier. It's not like he was out there gunning away from deep. In the ooc he only had two games where he shot more than one 3. He had 3 against Wofford with one being at the end of a shot clock. The other was against Wright state and I believe both, or at least one, was at the end of a shot clock. It wasn't until he came back that in the last 8 games that he shot more 3s, 6 multi attempt games out of 8. I think Wright knew that it wasn't the best choice for him to shoot 3s. But I think he also understood that with the injuries we had we needed him to try.

Also, I want to point something out. In the last 8 games, once Jose went out, Wright was 1-20 from 3. In his last 7 games, once he came back from injury, Haywood was 4-20 from 3, and the only real difference was Haywood got a game where he was hot and wen't 3/4. Otherwise he was jacking and missing a lot as well. And no, my point isn't that they are equal shooters, but I don't think it's really fair to label Wright as a guy who absolutely can't shoot 3s based on an 8 game stretch against ACC competition after having basically not played any significant minutes in 12 games.

I think the real issue was that we needed to get Lammers back to where he could be productive. We lost his offense by moving him outside. What we needed was to have a 5th year of eligibility for Q. Yes, that is a dig at those who questioned Q's value to the team last year.

 

[jayparr]

Sorry; but Moses is a self defeated basketball player. When he does something bad or even sort of bad he hangs his head and seams to sulk while then taking a slow 2 steps to get going. That is because he makes so many bad decisions through out his stay on the court. You can not miss that unless you hang your own head when he indeed misses a shot or any other miscue. This is all on his BBIQ , confidence, and athleticism. I do not see much else in his BB future. I hope I am wrong, but don't think so.

 

[MiracleWhips]

Sorry; but Moses is a self defeated basketball player. When he does something bad or even sort of bad he hangs his head and seams to sulk while then taking a slow 2 steps to get going. That is because he makes so many bad decisions through out his stay on the court. You can not miss that unless you hang your own head when he indeed misses a shot or any other miscue. This is all on his BBIQ , confidence, and athleticism. I do not see much else in his BB future. I hope I am wrong, but don't think so.

That's a hot take

 

[MiracleWhips]

There are a lot of things that could be done while looking at him in a vacuum. But the issue is that how many of those would work in the context of what we were trying to do as a team. Him being 15 feet out on the wing makes it that much harder by design to run our cuts off Ben in the high post. And if he's on the baseline then when he gets the ball there he's more prone to getting trapped and put into a bad situation. Plus neither of those things are concepts we really incorporate into our offense. Ben pretty much had a monopoly in the mid range game and we only really seemed to use the baseline on plays specifically designed for Tad. So Wright doing what you are suggesting imo would basically be a freshman freelancing which isn't usually what you want. I think that's especially true when you look at how Gueye was used early in the season, before we put him in the post. I don't think our offense was designed this year for our 4 spot to play inside the 3 point line like you're suggesting, and I think acting like Wright should have done so is ignoring context.

Also, if we were going to just limit him to be within 15 feet all the time, why would we play him instead of Gueye? Maybe it would be just for experience, but I don't think so. I think the staff believed Wright was more likely to be able to draw the defense out than Gueye. I also believe the staff told him he needed to make him self a threat out there, in contrast to the problem we had earlier. It's not like he was out there gunning away from deep. In the ooc he only had two games where he shot more than one 3. He had 3 against Wofford with one being at the end of a shot clock. The other was against Wright state and I believe both, or at least one, was at the end of a shot clock. It wasn't until he came back that in the last 8 games that he shot more 3s, 6 multi attempt games out of 8. I think Wright knew that it wasn't the best choice for him to shoot 3s. But I think he also understood that with the injuries we had we needed him to try.

Also, I want to point something out. In the last 8 games, once Jose went out, Wright was 1-20 from 3. In his last 7 games, once he came back from injury, Haywood was 4-20 from 3, and the only real difference was Haywood got a game where he was hot and wen't 3/4. Otherwise he was jacking and missing a lot as well. And no, my point isn't that they are equal shooters, but I don't think it's really fair to label Wright as a guy who absolutely can't shoot 3s based on an 8 game stretch against ACC competition after having basically not played any significant minutes in 12 games.

Completely agree, Moses strength is 15 feet from the basket and with Ben being gone he should be able to get back into his comfort zone. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw a lot of cole and wright at the 4/5 next year

 

[MiracleWhips]

There are a lot of things that could be done while looking at him in a vacuum. But the issue is that how many of those would work in the context of what we were trying to do as a team. Him being 15 feet out on the wing makes it that much harder by design to run our cuts off Ben in the high post. And if he's on the baseline then when he gets the ball there he's more prone to getting trapped and put into a bad situation. Plus neither of those things are concepts we really incorporate into our offense. Ben pretty much had a monopoly in the mid range game and we only really seemed to use the baseline on plays specifically designed for Tad. So Wright doing what you are suggesting imo would basically be a freshman freelancing which isn't usually what you want. I think that's especially true when you look at how Gueye was used early in the season, before we put him in the post. I don't think our offense was designed this year for our 4 spot to play inside the 3 point line like you're suggesting, and I think acting like Wright should have done so is ignoring context.

Also, if we were going to just limit him to be within 15 feet all the time, why would we play him instead of Gueye? Maybe it would be just for experience, but I don't think so. I think the staff believed Wright was more likely to be able to draw the defense out than Gueye. I also believe the staff told him he needed to make him self a threat out there, in contrast to the problem we had earlier. It's not like he was out there gunning away from deep. In the ooc he only had two games where he shot more than one 3. He had 3 against Wofford with one being at the end of a shot clock. The other was against Wright state and I believe both, or at least one, was at the end of a shot clock. It wasn't until he came back that in the last 8 games that he shot more 3s, 6 multi attempt games out of 8. I think Wright knew that it wasn't the best choice for him to shoot 3s. But I think he also understood that with the injuries we had we needed him to try.

Also, I want to point something out. In the last 8 games, once Jose went out, Wright was 1-20 from 3. In his last 7 games, once he came back from injury, Haywood was 4-20 from 3, and the only real difference was Haywood got a game where he was hot and wen't 3/4. Otherwise he was jacking and missing a lot as well. And no, my point isn't that they are equal shooters, but I don't think it's really fair to label Wright as a guy who absolutely can't shoot 3s based on an 8 game stretch against ACC competition after having basically not played any significant minutes in 12 games.

wow 1/20 v 4/20 didnt know that. Good observation

 

[jayparr]

Completely agree, Moses strength is 15 feet from the basket and with Ben being gone he should be able to get back into his comfort zone. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw a lot of cole and wright at the 4/5 next year

Cole yes- Moses no.

 

[gtbync]

Moses will be a better player next year. Anyone thinking different will be eating crow.

 

[YlJacket]

There are a lot of things that could be done while looking at him in a vacuum. But the issue is that how many of those would work in the context of what we were trying to do as a team. Him being 15 feet out on the wing makes it that much harder by design to run our cuts off Ben in the high post. And if he's on the baseline then when he gets the ball there he's more prone to getting trapped and put into a bad situation. Plus neither of those things are concepts we really incorporate into our offense. Ben pretty much had a monopoly in the mid range game and we only really seemed to use the baseline on plays specifically designed for Tad. So Wright doing what you are suggesting imo would basically be a freshman freelancing which isn't usually what you want. I think that's especially true when you look at how Gueye was used early in the season, before we put him in the post. I don't think our offense was designed this year for our 4 spot to play inside the 3 point line like you're suggesting, and I think acting like Wright should have done so is ignoring context.

Also, if we were going to just limit him to be within 15 feet all the time, why would we play him instead of Gueye? Maybe it would be just for experience, but I don't think so. I think the staff believed Wright was more likely to be able to draw the defense out than Gueye. I also believe the staff told him he needed to make him self a threat out there, in contrast to the problem we had earlier. It's not like he was out there gunning away from deep. In the ooc he only had two games where he shot more than one 3. He had 3 against Wofford with one being at the end of a shot clock. The other was against Wright state and I believe both, or at least one, was at the end of a shot clock. It wasn't until he came back that in the last 8 games that he shot more 3s, 6 multi attempt games out of 8. I think Wright knew that it wasn't the best choice for him to shoot 3s. But I think he also understood that with the injuries we had we needed him to try.

Also, I want to point something out. In the last 8 games, once Jose went out, Wright was 1-20 from 3. In his last 7 games, once he came back from injury, Haywood was 4-20 from 3, and the only real difference was Haywood got a game where he was hot and wen't 3/4. Otherwise he was jacking and missing a lot as well. And no, my point isn't that they are equal shooters, but I don't think it's really fair to label Wright as a guy who absolutely can't shoot 3s based on an 8 game stretch against ACC competition after having basically not played any significant minutes in 12 games.

Nothing was going to be perfect. And I would not label him as someone who "can't" shoot 3's rather someone who "couldn't" shoot 3's last year. With work he can get that stroke back.

Beyond that my perception is that Wright was still a better option at 15-18 feet than AD but Wright did get a lot of PT that would have gone to AD when everyone knew it was over for the year. Not going to look up stats as well as you did but again my perception is that when he got the ball 15-18 feet out he was a threat to drive on a close out and had some nice plays off of it - and some not so nice plays but that is expected. I don't think it was all freelancing as we have forwards on the baseline pretty much all the time to start and when someone drives. And it should already be OK not to be all the way out to the 3 point line. That shouldn't be a big deal.

Anyway - the biggest issue this year is him and Cole getting used to the ACC game. Have to figure it now has their attention and they know what level of work is required. Throw in some of the pickup games I expect happen in the practice facility over the summer with NBA and other college players from the area and it is a good opportunity to improve.

 

[KeystoneJacket]

I think his best role would be a top defensive stopper who is the last option on offense. Anthony McHenry type with more athleticism and less bball skill.

 

[GTbball2016]

I've seen far worse players make huge leaps from freshman to sophomore season

 

[H-Wade]

I've seen far worse players make huge leaps from freshman to sophomore season

Can you give a few examples? Not being sarcastic, I'm honestly curious.

 

[RamblinRed]

in regards to Haywood and Moses.
One big difference is that Curtis was basically shooting on one leg in those ACC games and Moses was not.
Also, for the year Curtis still hit 37% from three (one of the best numbers on the team) while Moses shot 6.5%.
Curtis had showed he could hit threes, Moses has not yet.

I think 2 things happened late in the year.
First, once they lost to BC and especially after Jose went down, the staff prioritized getting the FR bigs time over winning games. If you were trying to win games you would have limited Moses to about 10 mpg.

second, once Ben started to get healthy late they went back to the high post cutter offense that they abandoned early in the new year due to Ben's injury - which was when they went to having AD in the post and feeding him more. When Ben in the high post they put AD on the bench and played the FR as i would agree with those who say Moses is better out on the floor than AD.

i sort of see Moses as a 6 and 5 guy next season (in ACC play).

 

[MiracleWhips]

in regards to Haywood and Moses.
One big difference is that Curtis was basically shooting on one leg in those ACC games and Moses was not.
Also, for the year Curtis still hit 37% from three (one of the best numbers on the team) while Moses shot 6.5%.
Curtis had showed he could hit threes, Moses has not yet.

I think 2 things happened late in the year.
First, once they lost to BC and especially after Jose went down, the staff prioritized getting the FR bigs time over winning games. If you were trying to win games you would have limited Moses to about 10 mpg.

second, once Ben started to get healthy late they went back to the high post cutter offense that they abandoned early in the new year due to Ben's injury - which was when they went to having AD in the post and feeding him more. When Ben in the high post they put AD on the bench and played the FR as i would agree with those who say Moses is better out on the floor than AD.

i sort of see Moses as a 6 and 5 guy next season (in ACC play).

-Curtis had the rep of being a big time shooter/ moses did not so I guess the 37% isn't really that crazy to me for the rep that he had Imo.
- Against clemson Moses played a ton of minutes (30-35) didn't shoot great but did everything else right, they had a comfortable lead until he fouled out in the remaining 4 minutes and then that was when the wheels fell off. So I can't really agree with the statement of having to limit moses to 10 minutes.
- I agree with everything else tho

 

[iopjacket]

Sorry; but Moses is a self defeated basketball player. When he does something bad or even sort of bad he hangs his head and seams to sulk while then taking a slow 2 steps to get going. That is because he makes so many bad decisions through out his stay on the court. You can not miss that unless you hang your own head when he indeed misses a shot or any other miscue. This is all on his BBIQ , confidence, and athleticism. I do not see much else in his BB future. I hope I am wrong, but don't think so.

I think how much Moses improves depends on his work ethic and coaching. His coaches and teammates can help him lift his spirits and develop confidence. He is a freshman, don't give up on him yet.

 

[jayparr]

I think how much Moses improves depends on his work ethic and coaching. His coaches and teammates can help him lift his spirits and develop confidence. He is a freshman, don't give up on him yet.

He will have to prove it! I know a self defeated mind set when I see it. You truly do not see it often. More rare than not. If he gets over 10 minutes next year uh oh.

 

[RamblinRed]

Alot of what happened to Moses imo was opponents getting film on him.
He had 2 games all season where he shot better than 40% from the field. The FL A&M game where he went 8-9 and had 1/3 of all his OOC points.
And the game against Duke where he was 3-6 from the field and had his only made 3 against ACC opponents.
His last 4 games he was 3-28 from the field
Quite frankly, opponents got film on him, figured out what he was capable of and then adjusted and made him do things he is not capable of doing right now.

He just needs to keep working hard in the offseason. I don't expect a big jump from him next year - he's just so raw. I'm hoping he can be a solid ACC player as a JR - that is what the staff was aiming towards.