MiracleWhips
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Certainly hope he has an nba season. He deserves it
Moses Wright next year
- Thread starter Peacone36
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I disagree with this - Ivy is the one that supports this view. You don't take the shot if you have no ability to hit it and Moses had no ability to hit it. He wasn't keeping the defense honest, he was doing what they wanted him to do - there is a difference.
You have to understand what you can and can't do. I don't think you take a shot that you cannot make. He could easily have driven in 6-8 ft and taken a shot he might make.
You don't take an open three if you can't make it - that is actually bad coaching. Ismail Muhammad didn't make a 3-pter his last 2 seasons of college (and only took 9 of them in total in 2 seasons) but was still able to be an effective offensive player. Moses had 7 assts to 15 TO against ACC teams and 17:29 overall. That is not good ballhandling. I watched him dribble off himself more than once.
If they can get into an uptempo system I think Moses can be successful as that is where he does well. Using his athleticism around the basket. If he has to play alot against a set defense i don't think he will do too well. With a couple years of skill development Moses has the potential due to his high level athleticism to be a nice rotation piece.
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Josh needs to work on his left hand and his defense. At the NBA level at 6'4 (with a 6'11 winspan) his future would be as a 3-and-D type player. Right now Josh's handle isn't strong enough to create separation from defenders when he drives, he relies on brute strength, but misses too many layups. His D is ok for a Soph, but hardly outstanding, he doesn't always move his feet to stay in front of his assignment. His outside shot looks good. He does well as a catch and shoot type.
Silk3
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Think Josh can and will be more than just a 3 and D typa guy. Like youve said he is still younger than most freshman and should continue to keep developing in all aspects of his game.
D-man44
Helluva Engineer
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The ball handling is my biggest question when moving to the next level. He isn't really tall enough to guard some 3's in the NBA so he will be a 1/2 at the next level. I think a 3 and D player is where Okogie is as at. That isn't a knock by any means. I think of Klay Thompson as an extremely high end 3 and D guy.
lv20gt
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I'm going to try and explain why I think Moses had to take the 3 pointers that he did, or at the very least be willing to take some 3s.
Early in the year we tried doing what we did last year with Ben at the high post and running cutters to the lane. That didn't really work because everyone was playing off the 4 spot causing the defense to collapse. Numerous people pointed that out and it was why we made the change to go to AD inside. We did that for a while and as long as we had Jose I still think it was the best option we had. Ben's game suffered, although how much was due to injury we probably will never fully know, but it gave us an actual threat at the 4 spot. However, when Jose got hurt we didn't have a PG. Alston has no PG skills, Okogie doesn't really have the mentality to handle the point, and tad is just too unreliable. Our best PG was Lammers and we went back to running the offense through him. However we saw early in the year that AD being in and not being near the bucket gives us nothing and makes it hard to do what we were trying to because his guy wouldn't respect him at all. So when we decided to go back to running things through Ben, I think the staff made the conscious decision to use Wright instead of AD because he was more likely to be able to provide the spacing we needed. However that was entirely dependent on him being willing to take those shots. If Moses just refused to take those shots like you suggest, then why would he play over AD?
Yes, a player has to know what he can and can't do. However that's not the only thing. A player has to understand what the team needs him to do. If the team needed someone at the 4 who could bring his guy out of the paint to open things up, then refusing to take those shots even when open goes directly against what the team needs. It's why I was so critical of Alston because when Jose and Haywood went out Alston didn't change his game at all. He didn't try to be more aggressive, handle the ball more, look for his shot more, or look to make plays for others more. No, he likely didn't have the skill to do what he needed him to do, but how is refusing to even try better?
Silk3
Ramblin' Wreck
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Ya Okogies a 2guard all the way at the next level. Klays gotta be best 3&d guy ever haha I more think of 3 and d guys as just spot up shooters. Klay can hit 3s all day coming off screens and on the move and real good in the post, but I agree for most part but Klay is on another level. I guess we will see..
D-man44
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I couldn't think of a better way to describe him! He is one of if not the best catch and shoot 3pt shooter in the league and is a great defender!
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Taking them when you can't make then, still doesn't open up the inside any more than if you don't take them at all. Teams refused to guard him because they felt he could not make them, so they simply played off him. That is why it was so difficult to get good shots inside, they simply used Moses' man to clog up the middle.
Him taking threes had zero positive effect in remedying the offense and actually made it worse because now you are reinforcing a bad habit.
I would have had him take a dribble or two and then shoot. I'd rather take a shot he might have had a 20-25% chance of hitting than one he had about a 5% chance. If he did that the defense might actually come out a little to meet him, which would have helped open the baseline some.
Frankly the staff was stuck with no good options. In a best case scenario you would have run Moses as a cutter but his man was already standing in the paint.
i still fail to see how him taking threes helped the offense. If opponents would guard him even a little then yes it would, but they didn't, they literally ignored him.
I do agree with you about Alston by the way, they needed him to be more aggressive and he was not.
Funny, as Ben got more healthy i still would have been tempted to play AD more than they did. To me it felt like the staff basically decided to throw in the towel and just get as much playing time for Moses and Evan as they could - which given they weren't going anywhere is a legit decision to make if you want to. As Ben started making more jumpers it would have opened up the inside a little more for AD. i wouldn't have played Ben and AD together all the time, but I might have done it for 10-15 mpg as a change up.
I understand the rationale behind the idea they needed him to take those shots due to the offensive structure, I just disagree with that rationale. And that is ok. You pegged the one thing that really would have helped though. They really needed Brandon to step up and take threes, he simply wasn't comfortable doing that which was a disappointment. If Brandon had stepped up there then Moses could have been utilized as a cutter more.
okiemon
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MiracleWhips
Ramblin' Wreck
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I really believe someone on staff told him to keep shooting. You gotta think of pastner didn’t want him shooting those 3s he woulda sat him down right ?
bos
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Moses is not done growing into his body. I think this offseason he should really fill his frame up and learn to play in the post. For a guy with a 7-4 wingspan, he shouldn't be lurking around the perimeter most of the team. He could easily beat out less athletic big men.
BeeRBee
Jolly Good Fellow
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Looking at the game logs, he started 4 other games in December, and played decent minutes in others before the staff evidently decided to go with starting Gueye.
D-man44
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If Moses can figure out his body and athleticism he can be an NBA player lol. He is an athletic 6'9" guy with a 7'4" wingspan. If he shows any promise of basketball IQ he will at least a D-league/ summer leaguer due to the freakish frame he has. If I'm the staff that's probably why they put him in the weight training stuff over game play for awhile. It is important he fills out that frame for next season if he wants minutes. To many times this year he looked to weak to really battle in the post and looked awkward trying to post up. He needs to be in the gym with a great big man coach in Eric Revino and put some weight on I don't want him anywhere near the perimeter until we see the post game develop. I'd like to see him at the 5 more and go small if he can do that than the 4 at least until he develops the perimeter game more in future off seasons.
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FWIW, watching him in warmups with Reveno working with the bigs he is by far the worst of our big men in terms of post play.
He is really uncomfortable playing down low or with his back to the basket. You can tell he spent his time in HS playing more on the perimeter. AD is our best post player - he is better in warmups than Ben was, his footwork in the post was better. in an interview on the GT site early in the year Moses mentions one reason he chose GT is the offense and that the 4 is not a post player but can play more on the perimeter.
If I was evaluating Moses, my evaluation would be high major athlete, low major skill set right now - but he has 3 yrs to go. He's very athletic, has a great wingspan, has really limited skills at this time. Rebounds well, defends ok - has alot of potential here - would sometimes be beaten off the dribble but stay with it and use his athleticism and length to make a play near the basket, not a good shooter with potential form issues and not a good ballhandler.
Cole I would put as a mid to high major athlete with a current mid-major game. He reminds me of the bigs that go to mid-majors, work on their game and their body and by their JR or SR yr are on a team who make an NCAA Tourney and cause issues for a high major program.
Both need alot of work on their games still - which should be expected as both were signed as developmental prospects.
AD I would call a high major athlete with a high major post game and weaknesses in some other areas - including rebounding.
Moses' HS coach in an interview after his signing talked about how after a redshirt year Moses would have the potential to grow into a nice ACC player. I think if we didn't have all the injury issues redshirting him would have made alot of sense.
FWIW, here's a comparison of our 3 primary tall guys who will be returning next season.
This is based on min per stat and looks primarily at ACC games since ultimately that is level we need players at.
AD avg 3.42 min per pt (which translates to 11.7 per 40), Evan was 3.96 (10.1) and Moses was 5.08 (7.87). Both AD and Evan's numbers improved during ACC play while Moses' declined.
In terms of shooting AD was 50% FG, 0% 3FG (0-1), 67.9% FT. Evan was 51.2% FG, 33.3% 3FG (5-15), 46.7% FT - this is way too low and he needs to work on.
Moses was 25% FG, 5.6% 3FG (1-18), 52.9% FT.
Rebounding
This is one of Wright's best categories. Moses avg a RB every 5.24 min (7.6 per 40), Evan was right behind at 5.35 (7.5) and AD is not nearly the rebounder we need him to be at 8.18 (4.9 per 40)
Assists
AD leads the way here were an assist every 18.2 min, Cole is 1 every 19.5 and Moses is one every 24.7.
TO
This is Moses' worst category. Evan was best here at 1 every 26.75 min (1.5 per 40 min), AD 1 every 18.2 min and Moses 1 every 11.5 min (3.5 per 40)
Blocks.
AD is the best of the 3 returnees here. AD avg a block every 19.1 min, Moses one every 34.6 min and Evan 1 every 35.7 min.
Steals
Moses showed well here. Moses was 1 every 28.8 min, AD 1 every 44.6 min and Cole 1 every 53.5 min.
Fouls
This is largely a wash. AD and Moses were both one every 8.2 min, Evan was slightly more foul prone at 1 every 7.9 min. All three would be likely to foul out in a 40 min game.
Happy to have all 3 on the team.
He is really uncomfortable playing down low or with his back to the basket. You can tell he spent his time in HS playing more on the perimeter. AD is our best post player - he is better in warmups than Ben was, his footwork in the post was better. in an interview on the GT site early in the year Moses mentions one reason he chose GT is the offense and that the 4 is not a post player but can play more on the perimeter.
If I was evaluating Moses, my evaluation would be high major athlete, low major skill set right now - but he has 3 yrs to go. He's very athletic, has a great wingspan, has really limited skills at this time. Rebounds well, defends ok - has alot of potential here - would sometimes be beaten off the dribble but stay with it and use his athleticism and length to make a play near the basket, not a good shooter with potential form issues and not a good ballhandler.
Cole I would put as a mid to high major athlete with a current mid-major game. He reminds me of the bigs that go to mid-majors, work on their game and their body and by their JR or SR yr are on a team who make an NCAA Tourney and cause issues for a high major program.
Both need alot of work on their games still - which should be expected as both were signed as developmental prospects.
AD I would call a high major athlete with a high major post game and weaknesses in some other areas - including rebounding.
Moses' HS coach in an interview after his signing talked about how after a redshirt year Moses would have the potential to grow into a nice ACC player. I think if we didn't have all the injury issues redshirting him would have made alot of sense.
FWIW, here's a comparison of our 3 primary tall guys who will be returning next season.
This is based on min per stat and looks primarily at ACC games since ultimately that is level we need players at.
AD avg 3.42 min per pt (which translates to 11.7 per 40), Evan was 3.96 (10.1) and Moses was 5.08 (7.87). Both AD and Evan's numbers improved during ACC play while Moses' declined.
In terms of shooting AD was 50% FG, 0% 3FG (0-1), 67.9% FT. Evan was 51.2% FG, 33.3% 3FG (5-15), 46.7% FT - this is way too low and he needs to work on.
Moses was 25% FG, 5.6% 3FG (1-18), 52.9% FT.
Rebounding
This is one of Wright's best categories. Moses avg a RB every 5.24 min (7.6 per 40), Evan was right behind at 5.35 (7.5) and AD is not nearly the rebounder we need him to be at 8.18 (4.9 per 40)
Assists
AD leads the way here were an assist every 18.2 min, Cole is 1 every 19.5 and Moses is one every 24.7.
TO
This is Moses' worst category. Evan was best here at 1 every 26.75 min (1.5 per 40 min), AD 1 every 18.2 min and Moses 1 every 11.5 min (3.5 per 40)
Blocks.
AD is the best of the 3 returnees here. AD avg a block every 19.1 min, Moses one every 34.6 min and Evan 1 every 35.7 min.
Steals
Moses showed well here. Moses was 1 every 28.8 min, AD 1 every 44.6 min and Cole 1 every 53.5 min.
Fouls
This is largely a wash. AD and Moses were both one every 8.2 min, Evan was slightly more foul prone at 1 every 7.9 min. All three would be likely to foul out in a 40 min game.
Happy to have all 3 on the team.
MiracleWhips
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I definitely understand your take on this Ramblin, but as a guy who followed him closely in HS and in college its just hard for me to say that he can't shoot. If you look at Pre-acc Moses was hooping, he wasn't shooting that great from 3 but he was shooting pretty good from the field. Its funny because pre Acc he was playing good offense but bad defense. When he began playing acc his offense was not so great while his defense was good. If I'm pastner here is what should be on Moses' development list
-fill out his frame( not so much that he loses his speed and agility)
-ball handling must get better
- focus on attacking the rim/finishing through contact
-knocking down those open 15 footers.
If he can do the above he can easily be a 10&10 guy. There is no reason that Moses shouldn't be shooting at least 10 free throws a game!
AD
- I feel like we won't be getting much more out of AD,
-maybe develop a solid 15 foot shot?
Cole
-put more weight
-Develop post game
-focus on knocking down those 3s
-Work on defense
brandon_cox
Jolly Good Fellow
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Was Cole a decent free throw shooter in HS? Just wondering if his wretched 46.7% FT is an anomaly or not
CharlotteJacket
Georgia Tech Fan
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@RamblinRed - This may be the wrong thread, but at this point, what do you see as the starting 5 next year? And 2nd question, would it make sense for Wright to redshirt in year 2 (and is that feasible)?
PG - Alvarado
SG - Devoe
SF - Okogie
PF - Cole
C - AD