Marcus Marshall - Freshman All American Honorable Mention

[tugdog235]

MM already beat out MLD once right? And has been getting reps at BB this whole year.

I'm not saying it's impossible, and I think we'll have a pretty good competition at BB come spring but I would not be wholly surprised to see MM come out on top again.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Remember the "Snoddy is our next great BB" experiment? When we - or, to be more exact, the coaches - wasted almost 2 years trying to make Snoddy into a BB? It was for the same reasons folks have been bringing up here: big enough for the position, no real juke to him, fast as lightening, "we'll run the speed option again!", ect., ect, ect.

I feel like you're leaving out just a little bit of relevant information in your argument here. Like, maybe:

MM at BB:
car. 86 yds. 654 avg. 7.6 long. 64 td. 4
BS at BB:
??

 

[takethepoints]

I feel like you're leaving out just a little bit of relevant information in your argument here. Like, maybe:

MM at BB:
car. 86 yds. 654 avg. 7.6 long. 64 td. 4
BS at BB:
??

And I'm willing to bet that Snoddy would have had about the same numbers in the same situation. He never got pushed into starting because we had Sims, Lyons, and Laskey, in that order.

Btw, the 7.6 ypc is inflated by the 23 ypc in the Alcorn game. Take that one - it's a far outlier - out of the distribution and his median ypc was 4.3. Which isn't at all bad, especially for a freshman. Laskey's median ypc was 4.7 in his senior year. This isn't an argument about talent, iow, but about where it can show best.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

And I'm willing to bet that Snoddy would have had about the same numbers in the same situation. He never got pushed into starting because we had Sims, Lyons, and Laskey, in that order.

So your argument is based on your assumption of what might have happened three years ago combined with your dismissal of stats from games you selected. Ok

 

[takethepoints]

So your argument is based on your assumption of what might have happened three years ago combined with your dismissal of stats from games you selected. Ok

It's a justifiable assumption and any distribution that has far outliers should be trimmed to take them into account before any attempt to evaluate central tendencies. Look at any stats book on that.

 

[jwsavhGT]

Getting back to the original post, I really appreciate what our freshmen were able to accomplish. I look forward to seeing how they continue to grow during the off-season. Nothing like being forged in a season of fire to see what you are made of.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

It's a justifiable assumption and any distribution that has far outliers should be trimmed to take them into account before any attempt to evaluate central tendencies. Look at any stats book on that.

What does the stats book say about your "assumption?" You base it on NOTHING but physical measurables. This thread should be about appreciating MM's accomplishments as a TRUE Freshman (with no spring practice), but you and a few others seem intent on making it about his shortcomings. Ridiculous.

 

[Lee]

Remember the "Snoddy is our next great BB" experiment? When we - or, to be more exact, the coaches - wasted almost 2 years trying to make Snoddy into a BB? It was for the same reasons folks have been bringing up here: big enough for the position, no real juke to him, fast as lightening, "we'll run the speed option again!", ect., ect, ect.

I don't have anything at all against Marshall. He is just like Snoddy: he's big enough to shed a block, he has great straight-ahead speed, and he's tough

This bit makes me question your so called football knowledge/expertise. If you think Snoddy and Marshall are even close to comparable as running backs, than you might want to stick to talking about Oline techniques. Snoddy came in as a raw, track guy with elite speed. Marshall is the best lure runner we've brought in since Dwyer. Snoddy busted his butt and taught himself how to be a better runner, but that didn't show up until last year.

In fact, he kind of disproves your whole argument about needing a downhill, north south runner at that bback. That's all he could do until 2014. The people wanting Snoddy at bback were hoping his speed would translate to more explosive plays from that spot. It takes more than speed to hit big plays from that position. Vision, feet, and balance are as important if not more important. Marshall has all of those, Snoddy had 1 until 2014. He was still a little stiff, but his balance and vision got a lot better.

It's a justifiable assumption and any distribution that has far outliers should be trimmed to take them into account before any attempt to evaluate central tendencies. Look at any stats book on that

As I mentioned in our earlier conversation on this topic that you didn't respond to, it could just as easily be said that the games in which he got 4/5 or less carries should be outliers too. Should we take our games in which our QBs throw for over 175 yards? That's an outlier too. If that's the case, you can go ahead and take off 956 yards and a 11/0 td/int ratio for Justin over the last 2 years. Wonder what his numbers would look like then?

You can make stats say whatever you want, politicians do it all the time. The truth is that every year we play against terrible teams and ZL had opportunities to put up big numbers against bad teams as well. PS and MA both played against that same Alcorn team and didn't come close to doing what MM did. If he can stay healthy and works hard, he will be a star in this offense. That is unless PJ does something crazy and moves him to aback purely to satisfy you and one other MM detractor.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I don't know why so many have their panties in a wad about a little common sense criticism that most agree with especially when it came packaged with praise and prediction for future success. Not one person in this thread called Marcus a no talent bum although that's what you'd think reading some of these posts.

Maybe its because some didn't fawn over his "award."

Congrats Marcus on your honorable mention, now get to work with all the rest of your teammates.

 

[takethepoints]

This bit makes me question your so called football knowledge/expertise. If you think Snoddy and Marshall are even close to comparable as running backs, than you might want to stick to talking about Oline techniques. Snoddy came in as a raw, track guy with elite speed. Marshall is the best lure runner we've brought in since Dwyer. Snoddy busted his butt and taught himself how to be a better runner, but that didn't show up until last year.

As I mentioned in our earlier conversation on this topic that you didn't respond to, it could just as easily be said that the games in which he got 4/5 or less carries should be outliers too. Should we take our games in which our QBs throw for over 175 yards? That's an outlier too. If that's the case, you can go ahead and take off 956 yards and a 11/0 td/int ratio for Justin over the last 2 years. Wonder what his numbers would look like then?

You can make stats say whatever you want, politicians do it all the time. The truth is that every year we play against terrible teams and ZL had opportunities to put up big numbers against bad teams as well. PS and MA both played against that same Alcorn team and didn't come close to doing what MM did. If he can stay healthy and works hard, he will be a star in this offense. That is unless PJ does something crazy and moves him to aback purely to satisfy you and one other MM detractor.

1. I know what the basis of my football knowledge is and I've said it here: I played the game for years and I've studied it as a fan since. On the basis of that I disagree with your assessment of Marshall; he's good, but I think his talent would be better served at another position. That's all.

2. " … it could just as easily be said that the games in which he got 4/5 or less carries should be outliers too." Well, not if what you are looking at is ypc and what you are looking for is a measure of central tendency. There's a 23 ypc game that sorta sticks out. Especially when you see how taking that data point out changes his average ypc (from 7.6 to 5.7, if I remember right). No, I'm afraid that this really is a far outlier. As to Laskey, his ypc were remarkably consistent from game to game in his senior year and his biggest games came against Miami and Ugag, not the weaker teams. Coach tends to run the ABs against them since they can't keep up.

3. "You can make stats say whatever you want, …" Well, not and be honest about it. And that's all I was doing. Marshall is a good back and might be a great one; there's no need to inflate his numbers to prove the point.

4. If you think Coach pays any attention at all to what anybody in the fan base thinks about his players and where they belong, then you have a rude awakening coming. He will not take your opinion or mine or anyone else's here into consideration. Apparently some of you are intent on transforming a difference of opinion about one of our players into some kind of campaign to get Coach - of all the people in the universe - to change his mind about how to use his personnel. Imho, that is about as likely as inhabitants of Neptune landing on the White House lawn.

6. Now, that really is enough of this.

 

[jwsavhGT]

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread but I think it has run it's course.