LOS

[WreckinGT]

It's still a relatively young line. Transfers may be older but they are still new players in a new system. It's going to take a couple of years to get old and stay old on the line. We are taking transfers to keep class separation. In a year or two we shoe see drastic improvement.

I’m sorry but this is an apologist mindset at this point. Our OL has been getting pushed around all year, including against NIU and KSU. Plenty of OL transfers to other programs have succeeded. Plenty of second year and even freshmen offensive linemen have succeeded at other programs. If it takes a guy 5 years to have a serviceable offensive line then he is either not a very good coach or is not bringing in very good talent. With Brent Key’s reputation and salary it is more than fair that we should have expected better at this point. If you were using reason over emotion you would see that.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Blaming the play calling is always the easiest thing to do. What's the best play call for an OL that can't block?

Thanks for asking. You call the play that gets the ball away from the QB as fast as possible. We did it a few times and Gibbs had some big plays. The long TD came back due to a hold by Carter. I would have called 30 straight swing passes if that’s what it took due to a porous OLine. But in year 3, Patenaude can’t figure it out. Maybe he needs to go back to the booth or something to see the field better.

Listen every team outside 3 or 4 has deficiencies somewhere on offense. An average OC can adapt. Our OC was running option plays from 5 yards behind the LOS in the 3rd quarter when the 8 year old sitting next to me was asking why because no one was blocking. It’s not Sims or Gibbs fault that our OC was calling that play. If I’m Gibbs there is no way I’m staying if our OC isn’t gone soon. And it is obvious by now with an OLine that can’t block that Smith can make something out of nothing yet he sits. I love Mason and he has a shot on Sundays, but he has no role in this offense with an OLine that can’t block. Not his fault, but Patenaude has no clue how to utilize what we have.

Lastly, the sequence where we turned it over on downs near the end zone, do you realize we had 6 plays and never even tried to put the ball in the end zone. Even the 4th down play on that pass into the ground by Sims wouldn’t have been a TD. How do you have 1st and goal down 3 scores and the ball never crosses the goal line in any capacity. At least throw an incompletion into the stands to give the impression you are trying. It was just bizarre. But in year 3 it’s the pattern.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I’m sorry but this is an apologist mindset at this point. Our OL has been getting pushed around all year, including against NIU and KSU. Plenty of OL transfers to other programs have succeeded. Plenty of second year and even freshmen offensive linemen have succeeded at other programs. If it takes a guy 5 years to have a serviceable offensive line then he is either not a very good coach or is not bringing in very good talent. With Brent Key’s reputation and salary it is more than fair that we should have expected better at this point. If you were using reason over emotion you would see that.

Like I said. You have to be able to leave emotion aside. Point me to a program where freshman are succeeding that is also in a massive offensive scheme rebuild. I'll wait.

 

[laoh]

I don't think anyone who posts here truly knows the answer to your question. I do think the OL coach has the credentials in that he has coached for both Saban and O'Leary, both of whom I have to believe can discern another person's ability to coach the game. I am of the school of thought that says that guys do NOT forget how to coach.

I remember a discussion a few years ago about the Key hire... that he was not really liked at Bama so a GT job came at a good time for him. Anyone have more insight to this?

 

[TromboneJacket]

Like I said. You have to be able to leave emotion aside. Point me to a program where freshman are succeeding that is also in a massive offensive scheme rebuild. I'll wait.

Plus, usually those teams that are starting freshmen are starting them because they beat out decent upperclassmen, not because they have no other options.

 

[IslandsofGaunilo]

Like I said. You have to be able to leave emotion aside. Point me to a program where freshman are succeeding that is also in a massive offensive scheme rebuild. I'll wait.

I buy the youth part. I buy (to some extent) the idea that transfers need time to gel. But at this point, I do not buy scheme rebuild part. Sure, the struggles of the players who were present for the transition can be attributed to the scheme rebuild; I do not believe anyone disputes this. But what does scheme rebuilding have to do with the struggles of the players (namely, the transfers and the freshmen) who never played in the previous scheme?

 

[smokey_wasp]

To answer the OP, we actually are recruiting the lines really hard, but these are also positions where it takes more time for them to develop, compared to skill players. Transfers are ideally for patching holes when you are already pretty good. We probably shouldn't be shocked we are where we are, but it is still frustrating

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I buy the youth part. I buy (to some extent) the idea that transfers need time to gel. But at this point, I do not buy scheme rebuild part. Sure, the struggles of the players who were present for the transition can be attributed to the scheme rebuild; I do not believe anyone disputes this. But what does scheme rebuilding have to do with the struggles of the players (namely, the transfers and the freshmen) who never played in the previous scheme?

OL is a unit. They have to play as a unit to be effective. It takes time to build an effective unit, and most of the experts I listened to when CGC took over said it would be the hardest part of the rebuild.

 

[IslandsofGaunilo]

Plus, usually those teams that are starting freshmen are starting them because they beat out decent upperclassmen, not because they have no other options.

This is reasonable, and I appreciate the point. But then these struggles are attributable to youth, not directly to the scheme rebuild. Of course, you could say that we are young because of the rebuild, and in that sense the rebuild can excuse the poor play of the OL. If that is the argument, then I won't dispute it, but I will say that it still doesn't explain the lack of improvement in our OL play since 2019.

 

[Frenchise]

My view is that it isn't as bad as it looked. That said, the most glaring flaw I see is a lack ability to adjust when your plan doesn't work. Our plan was fantastic against UNC. Today, our plan underestimated the lineman of Pitt on both sides. That happens, but this staff didn't seem be able to adjust, at least not meaningfully(dropping 8 in the 2nd half down 28 is surrender, not adjustment).

Pitt is one of the dirtiest teams in the ACC. If Saban was coaching, he'd figure out to a way to get more calls. Part of being a good coach is being able to get penalties by teaching players to make penalties more obvious, at an extreme its called flopping. We acted surprised they held us. We made mental errors. We stopped covering WRs at the end of their routes. We had a TE shake and bake one of our starting DBs. We played like crap as a team with a strategy.

I'm not ready to give up on CGC, but its hard not to see a him as a guy with more focus on social media than X and Os. His critics might be wrong, but they aren't blind.

 

[IslandsofGaunilo]

OL is a unit. They have to play as a unit to be effective. It takes time to build an effective unit, and most of the experts I listened to when CGC took over said it would be the hardest part of the rebuild.

I already acknowledged this excuse as valid in my post. I understand it takes time. This can be accounted for in terms of youth and inexperience in the system. And, yes, the scheme rebuild is responsible for those two elements to some extent, and in that sense the excuse is reasonable. However, the rebuild does not excuse the lack of progress in the OL's development. The OL was terrible in 2019, which is excused by the rebuild. The OL has been terrible in 2021, which can also be excused by the rebuild in isolation. That the OL has not improved since 2019 cannot so excused. And that is the crux: we've seen no improvement in the OL. This cannot be explained by the rebuild alone, and nor should it be excused by it.

 

[WreckinGT]

Like I said. You have to be able to leave emotion aside. Point me to a program where freshman are succeeding that is also in a massive offensive scheme rebuild. I'll wait.

I'm not looking at this emotionally at all. According to PFF we had the worst OL in the country in year one. Somewhat understandable. We were nearly as awful in year two. Disappointing but at least there is the COVID excuse. In year three we brought in two NFL prospects via the transfer portal, another SEC transfer, and we have one more SEC transfer that has been here 2 years now and has started many games in the SEC and ACC. Along with that, we have recruited talented younger players who have been in the system multiple years now. Yet with all of that improvement in talent and experience, and with an OL coach with a great reputation we are getting pushed around by everyone we are playing including FCS teams. Something obviously isn't right. It isn't emotional to have expected more improvement at this point with what we have and everything that has changed. You thinking everyone should blindly accept that it will take 2-3 more years to have a serviceable OL doesn't make you a level headed fan of reason. It just means you have really low expectations.

 

[bke1984]

Patenaude does some things that are great. Then follows it up with head scratchers. Wonder if he sometimes over thinks things.

It’s not the individual plays that bother me. More so that he just seems to randomly string them together. When they work it’s great, but it almost seems lucky when you’re watching it.

 

[TruckStick]

It’s not the individual plays that bother me. More so that he just seems to randomly string them together. When they work it’s great, but it almost seems lucky when you’re watching it.

It’s not a game plan or system. It’s throwing random plays at teams and seeing if they stick. Sort of like throwing money at any investment until one pays off even though you wasted 80% of your money.

 

[TaxJacket]

I already acknowledged this excuse as valid in my post. I understand it takes time. This can be accounted for in terms of youth and inexperience in the system. And, yes, the scheme rebuild is responsible for those two elements to some extent, and in that sense the excuse is reasonable. However, the rebuild does not excuse the lack of progress in the OL's development. The OL was terrible in 2019, which is excused by the rebuild. The OL has been terrible in 2021, which can also be excused by the rebuild in isolation. That the OL has not improved since 2019 cannot so excused. And that is the crux: we've seen no improvement in the OL. This cannot be explained by the rebuild alone, and nor should it be excused by it.

This.... He has had Cooper and Minihan for 3 years now and they look the exact same as they did three years ago. And yes, I realize Cooper was out yesterday but it's not like the OL was killing it with him in there.
Ryan Johnson was a starter at TN and had an offer to transfer to Bama. He comes here and has been serviceable at best...
Devin Cochran was the best OL in the SEC two years ago...
And finally, Jordan Williams was probably our best OL last year. He seems to have taken a step back this year
Let's not act like they don't have players on the OL.... This is coaching, plain and simple. Our OL shouldn't look like it's the first year in a new offense. I don't even want to think about how bad we'll be next year without Cooper, Johnson, or Cochran, because frankly we haven't been world beaters with them....

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I already acknowledged this excuse as valid in my post. I understand it takes time. This can be accounted for in terms of youth and inexperience in the system. And, yes, the scheme rebuild is responsible for those two elements to some extent, and in that sense the excuse is reasonable. However, the rebuild does not excuse the lack of progress in the OL's development. The OL was terrible in 2019, which is excused by the rebuild. The OL has been terrible in 2021, which can also be excused by the rebuild in isolation. That the OL has not improved since 2019 cannot so excused. And that is the crux: we've seen no improvement in the OL. This cannot be explained by the rebuild alone, and nor should it be excused by it.

If you can't see clear progress by the OL since 2019 then you are blind. Yes, our OL is still a problem, but not nearly the problem it was in 2019. We are miles better, but not good enough yet.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I'm not looking at this emotionally at all. According to PFF we had the worst OL in the country in year one. Somewhat understandable. We were nearly as awful in year two. Disappointing but at least there is the COVID excuse. In year three we brought in two NFL prospects via the transfer portal, another SEC transfer, and we have one more SEC transfer that has been here 2 years now and has started many games in the SEC and ACC. Along with that, we have recruited talented younger players who have been in the system multiple years now. Yet with all of that improvement in talent and experience, and with an OL coach with a great reputation we are getting pushed around by everyone we are playing including FCS teams. Something obviously isn't right. It isn't emotional to have expected more improvement at this point with what we have and everything that has changed. You thinking everyone should blindly accept that it will take 2-3 more years to have a serviceable OL doesn't make you a level headed fan of reason. It just means you have really low expectations.

There is a lot of hyperbole in this post, so you clearly have an axe to grind. Feel free to keep grinding. Next year will be better, and so will the year after that. CGC will still be the coach, and Key will likely still be here as well. In the meantime I suggest some Pepto, as your unrealistic expectations are likely to give you an ulcer.

 

[gtchem05]

Thanks for asking. You call the play that gets the ball away from the QB as fast as possible. We did it a few times and Gibbs had some big plays. The long TD came back due to a hold by Carter. I would have called 30 straight swing passes if that’s what it took due to a porous OLine. But in year 3, Patenaude can’t figure it out. Maybe he needs to go back to the booth or something to see the field better.

Listen every team outside 3 or 4 has deficiencies somewhere on offense. An average OC can adapt. Our OC was running option plays from 5 yards behind the LOS in the 3rd quarter when the 8 year old sitting next to me was asking why because no one was blocking. It’s not Sims or Gibbs fault that our OC was calling that play. If I’m Gibbs there is no way I’m staying if our OC isn’t gone soon. And it is obvious by now with an OLine that can’t block that Smith can make something out of nothing yet he sits. I love Mason and he has a shot on Sundays, but he has no role in this offense with an OLine that can’t block. Not his fault, but Patenaude has no clue how to utilize what we have.

Lastly, the sequence where we turned it over on downs near the end zone, do you realize we had 6 plays and never even tried to put the ball in the end zone. Even the 4th down play on that pass into the ground by Sims wouldn’t have been a TD. How do you have 1st and goal down 3 scores and the ball never crosses the goal line in any capacity. At least throw an incompletion into the stands to give the impression you are trying. It was just bizarre. But in year 3 it’s the pattern.

On the broadcast, it was easy to read between the lines and tell that Roddy Jones thought the play calling from coach P was consistently bad. That’s all I need to know.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

It’s not a game plan or system. It’s throwing random plays at teams and seeing if they stick. Sort of like throwing money at any investment until one pays off even though you wasted 80% of your money.

This is the truth. There is no offensive plan. He just calls plays and every once a while one works because guys like Sims and Gibbs are talented. But the same would happen if we just had a randomizer call the plays.

 

[alagold]

The biggest problem on Off is a poor running game.Of course that is mainly the Oline.Today we have a huge amount of pass yds but 3 for 15 on 3rd/4th and then redzone breakdowns.That is because of no running.
Key and/or Pat ought to be called out.