Looking Ahead - QB

Mack

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Excellent post and spot on.

I'll say here what I've often said about Byerley. He isn't very big, he isn't very fast, and his arm is ok, at best. Yet, I wouldn't be surprised to see him win the job. He knows how to manage a football game and how to win. He always has. I've compared him to Billy Lothridge on this. The only thing Lothridge was great at was kicking. But, Laws, did he know how to run a football team! The confidence this gave to his teams was contagious.

But JT has the inside track due to sheer talent and game experience. It'll be interesting to see who comes out on top.
Gosh wish we had a Lothridge caliber qb ......we could use him.Billy Kool just won somehow with ave speed and arm strength.
 

Mack

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I feel for Vad, truthfully. Can you imagine what it must have felt like to know it wasn't working and yet have the responsibility of the entire team on your shoulders? It is a tough position to be in. I know he didn't want to let his teammates down.

My gosh, he was so tentative by the end. I just watched the bowl all over again on DVR. Two plays stand out as a microcosm of his season. The first is the play in which he fumbled. He faked a pitch nicely, turned it up field for about 10 yards until he encountered a defender about a yard short of the line to gain. Instead of accelerating and lowering his pads and plowing for a first down, like he would have last year, he slowed down, looking to absorb the hit allowing a pursuer from behind to catch him and whack at the ball at the same time that the guy in front puts his helmet on his ball carrying arm, fumble. If he lowers his shoulder, no fumble and a first down.
The second was a long incompletion to Waller on a drive that we were trying to take the lead late. On second and 12, Vad scrambles nicely to his left avoiding the rush. As he approaches the boundary he has at least 10 clear yards ahead of him to run for the first down. Instead of taking the sure thing, he fires deep into double coverage to Waller who gets creamed, no catch. If he pulls it down the drive stays alive with either a first down or a very manageable 3rd down instead of 3rd and 12.
I go further ....in first half he had a one on one with a de and a back trailing and he looked at DE and he froze and took the hit.Hey its tough to run this option with a world class qb but most either pitch early or keep the rock.Lee looked like a deer in headlights .Last thing was the passing and yes he could have run rather than throw into coverage but he did not.I think he has a strong winning attitude but when he was running the option he looked slow and this hurt.Hope he does well in next football life cause he took the heat and has said little about the tech program.Good kid.
 

Mack

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Thanks Boomer. Nice write-up. I'm not sure that the Duke game was that great for Vad from an option standpoint either, but I'm just going off recollections of my feelings at the time without looking into it more. The one question I have is whether Vad really went south after the "we're a terrible option team" game. He may have just got so far inside his own head on option plays that he just stopped making reads. Who knows?

I also agree with you about JT's arm. I can't remember which game it was but he came in and threw a bullet to a WR at the sideline that was beautiful. I also think that TB does "look right" running both the triple option and zone-read stuff from the diamond, but it's hard to tell if that was just because of opposition.

Matthew Jordan's senior film is great. I doubt he'll beat out JT any time soon but even if not, he'll be a RS Soph when JT's a RS Sr which is pretty perfect, imo.
No doubt JT can run the show but big question is can he take the hit......as quick as he is he may have a advantage with the mesh and yeah he can sling the rock.Wish he would have played more this year.
 

Techster

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I go further ....in first half he had a one on one with a de and a back trailing and he looked at DE and he froze and took the hit.Hey its tough to run this option with a world class qb but most either pitch early or keep the rock.Lee looked like a deer in headlights .Last thing was the passing and yes he could have run rather than throw into coverage but he did not.I think he has a strong winning attitude but when he was running the option he looked slow and this hurt.Hope he does well in next football life cause he took the heat and has said little about the tech program.Good kid.

It's kinda like QB's in "traditional" offenses. They have to be able to stare down the rusher, hang in the pocket an extra half second to let the WR get open and take the hit after they deliver the ball.

In our offense, a QB has to be able to make the key defender read him so it opens up the pitch man...even if it means taking the hit.

In either offense, a QB has to be willing to take a hit for the benefit of letting the play develop and the overall offense.
 

gtg936g

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The reason I like JT is that the safety will not just be able to fill the alley. JT is fast enough to make the safety miss in space, so the safety will need to approach the alley such that he turns JT back inside. Speed adds a very difficult dimension.

If JT gets hit big, I bet it will be on a pass play, like the Miami game where Chamberlain missed a block.
 

alaguy

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Good synopsis,Boomer.My thoughts-

I had alway said ANY QB coming out of shotgun snap OFFense would have a steep learning curve on TO ball handling..Vad became a poster child for that.

With JT ,be ready for a similar erratic QB season.Basically we have ANOTHER new QB to get exp.He will run the run game better --but throw worse at least to start.. AGAIN vs bad teams,no problem.vs good teams big problem.It will help A LOT if the Oline gets better but that may be WAY too much to hope for.(loss of Finch my biggest worry).

Actually like was discussed on Buzzoff last yr,Byerly may endup being the most important man.After watching several 225Lb QBs in bowl games get KILLED almost,I can't see JT lasting at 180 lbs while getting hit almost every play no matter how elusive. There is a reason that there is not another 180lb QB out there.
Byerly is VERY good at this option.His passing is suspect.Even vs Ala A/M he missed on wide open throw.Right now a slower but more powerful version of TW.

Doubtful,the Fr (MJ)will impact although has potential.He is coming off injury for one thing.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I think the idea that option qb's get hit every play is one of the biggest myths in college football. It just ain't so. Tevin was a slight guy and almost played his entire career injury free.
 

CuseJacket

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I' m noy sold on JT as many of you, I've already seen him knocked silly. If he is the started I hope to see a lot of Tim in the game as well.

They will want to redshirt MJ, he'll have to really show something for them not too. I hoping he wins out.

BTW. Can I request the OLine to be done next?

Call me blindly optimistic but I don't see JT's size as a concern. Ironically JT was knocked silly standing in the pocket on a pass play, the same type of play and hit that knocked out Tim Tebow (big guy in a running system).

JT's size while running the option and scrambling makes it more difficult to get a clean hit. He's also much quicker and more elusive than Vad, so you're not going to see him standing upright and running right into a UNC DB.

If defenses are able to get clean shots on JT then his size certainly becomes a concern. But like others have pointed out Tevin was rarely forced out of a game, and he wasn't a beefcake.
 

AtWork

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Does anyone know what games TB and JT got the most snaps. I know TB lead us down the field against UM with time expiring and JT got some time against Syracuse. A lot of these games our on Youtube full length. Didn't know if anyone could recall those games.
 

Essobee

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Super post, Boomer. Thanks. Exactly the kind of stuff I was hoping to see from this board and so far I haven't been disappointed. :)
 

gtg936g

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Does anyone know what games TB and JT got the most snaps. I know TB lead us down the field against UM with time expiring and JT got some time against Syracuse. A lot of these games our on Youtube full length. Didn't know if anyone could recall those games.

Alabama A&M, Syracuse, Elon
 

Mack

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I think the idea that option qb's get hit every play is one of the biggest myths in college football. It just ain't so. Tevin was a slight guy and almost played his entire career injury free.
Let me say this if you are preparing for the option the qb must be hit every play or you are in deep trouble.If you are nimble like Ham or Watts and pitch quick to a Greg Pruitt or AP at Southern then you dont get the hit.TW was fairly nimble and he did pitch fairly quickly if I remember correctly.I think its a given but man.........having horses to pitch to really makes it worth while.
 

Boomergump

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Does anyone know what games TB and JT got the most snaps. I know TB lead us down the field against UM with time expiring and JT got some time against Syracuse. A lot of these games our on Youtube full length. Didn't know if anyone could recall those games.
JT got quite a few in the Miami game. He got us moving and made some good plays before throwing the telegraphed pick 6. The other games already mentioned as well. JT can move the team. He has done very well in that department. He has just been careless with the football trying to force every play. That is part of why I am optimistic about him. Taking your foot off the throttle is the easy part. He already has much of the hard stuff down.

In the Miami game, it was garbage time for TB and the LBs were playing at a little different depth, but watch how he rode the MESH and made the reads. He gets the importance of the fakes too. He looks good. Most of his series was out of the diamond if memory serves.
 

Em_Jae20

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Whoever our QB is come the fall I just hope he can create a good level of optimism, which I believe JT5 is the most capable of. This is what keeps a lot of us fans on board. Ppl forget that the optimism created for a program in the off season can be immensely valuable. To all the doom and gloom fans that hate mediocrity, as do I, just remember we are only a few days into the off season. And things like a strong finish in the 2014 class, a strong start to the 2015 class, guys like JT14 and JA45 raising their draft stock, ultimately being drafted, and spring/fall practices for the team can all get you back excited about next season. While I'm not happy with where we are I think we can still get back to prominence and JT5 will be the guy to lead us there.

THWG!!!
 

Longestday

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Vad is an outstanding young man off the field, period. I saw some moments of spark in 2012 that gave me a little excitement for this year, but I tempered that with his lack of trusting the system in 2012. Vad has mentioned several times in interviews (paraphrase) "I gave it to that guy because I thought he was open all game" when he should have been giving the ball based on the read. We all should know that we had to run the fake triple option because Vad could not read the proper hand off/keep/pitch.

Contrary to most, I never thought he was a great passer, however, I thought he would be much better than Tevin with a stronger arm. Many times he does have people in mind before the snap. The constant back foot passes and never stepping into the pocket concerned me before the start of the year. Vad did have a bad OL/BB pass blocking, but so did Tevin.

Everyone wanted his emotion, but emotional people have highs and lows. Lows tend to be more impactful and plays more head games on these types of people. The team loved his highs coming into the season and he almost made team captain. I wonder if his lows caused some changes in the locker room, especially as he started thinking about transferring.

Over all I give Vad A+ on off the field character, D+ triple option and C- on passing. His did not show the ability to process quickly in the option of passing.

JT is smaller, and has showed spark this year like Vad in 2012. I would say less spark than Vad in 2012, but with less experience and less play time. JT has shown he can read the option, read the cross charge well, charge down the line, and make the LB commit. JT does make pitches that would be best "going down with the ship". I think experience will settle risky pitching. The man is quick and is gone once in the open field. JT's BB option hand motion is so quick even the camera guy is guessing who has the ball.

JT has shown field awareness for passing, steps into his throws, and has stepped up into the pocket. He does tend to over scramble backwards at times. JT is a little short to see over his OL.

TB has some of the best option footwork I have seen. His option hand motions are slick and he is the best at the diamond mesh "lag". Keep in mind he threw that ball t0 Smelter that went viral. TB runs hards, has the height and the size, the best passing touch, but just not as much "sizzle" as JT. I love TB's diamond keeps where he blast up the center! I have no problem with him sharing snaps with JT or winging the job.

I am kind of glad that Vad left as to not cause any issues next year if bypassed. This also forces CPJ to choose a better option versus experience.
 

AE 87

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Fwiw, I agree with longestday. The issue imo was not footwork primarily but buy in and focus. He seemed to prioritize people over scheme, making reads. Great kid/person but not yet great college QB. Hopefully his next stop will hive him time to thrive.
 

GTJason

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Does anyone think Snoddy gets in the game more often just because of JT's speed? I realize JT doesn't have to run the option at his top speed and will run with what is given to him, but if we don't play to his speed we are doing him a disservice. Our A-backs are fast but milliseconds matter in the option and I bet if he tried to JT could outrun almost everyone on the team to his pitch point. I've been wanting to see more B-back option ala Nesbit and Dwyer, but we might be to a point where we have to run it to have our fastest guys with the ball in their hands. This is also why we need someone like Miles Autry.
 
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