Let's compare coaches, just for fun !

Messages
2,034
Chasing national titles is a fools errand for the most part... In this day and age a few programs just have too much talent to overcome. Its kind of unfortunate but is what it is. Proof:

Alabama
Clemson
Alabama
Ohio State
Florida State
Alabama
Alabama
Auburn
Alabama
Florida
Texas
USC
USC
Ohio State
Miami
Oklahoma

Thats the new "modern" era... Not only is it the same teams winning it every year... its really the same teams truly competing for it. Bama, OSU, Georgia, Oklahoma, etc. The talent going to these programs is unbelievable, and it really leaves everyone else in the dust.

Which begs the question.... what is the goal of the football program? To become the new Bama? Is it for the kids and the community? Is it to make money for all the school athletic programs? Is Kansas, Utah State, Tulane, Syracuse, Wake Forest, etc legitimate goal to compete for a championship once every 25 years? Or is it to just be solid and entertaining?

The general public seems to have this "national championship or nothing" approach.... If you think that way, you might as well go down to the store and buy a Bama, USC, OSU, etc jersey and root for them because it just aint gonna happen at most programs.


So what has changed in College football over the last 50 years. Most of the teams listed here have always been the teams with the talent. In the 70's it was

Alabama
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Nebraska
Ohio State
Michigan
USC
Texas
Pitt

College football is falling apart because of this stupid Play Off. What does Tech play for,
1 making a bowl
2 A Coastal Championship
3, An ACC Championship
4. Beat the Dwags

Do number 4 and I sleep well all winter.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,397
But ... if we do change, for some reason ... I think Brent Pry, the Penn State DC, or the guy who has been the interim at THE Ohio State are my top two. Pry is a very good defensive coach and has connections to Georgia and its high schools. Ohio State also has recruited Georgia heavily the last few years and has built a network in the state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Day_(American_football)

I was actually thinking about him as a future HC somewhere. He has a VERY unique background as an assistant coach for various HCs. My concern with him is when he had control of the offense, it's not like he was doing something extraordinary with the talent at hand. Temple and BC are a close litmus test for coaching at GT in terms of academics and recruiting. He was poor to OK at calling the offense at both places in terms of OFEI. I wouldn't want to have to pay a premium for a coach who made his hay off of Urban Meyer's recruiting. Ohio State definitely looked great the first 3 games under him, and the offense was fun to watch, but it's still Urban Meyer's players and offense. Look at Tom Herman who was given the keys to the kingdom at Texas after OC'ing Meyer's teams.

An interesting name that would have been a great OC under a CEO type coach is Kendall Briles...Art Briles son. Unfortunately, he's a bit tainted from the Baylor scandal. Look what he did under his father at Baylor, as the OC for Lane Kiffen at FAU, and what he doing now for Major Applewhite at Houston. He's an offensive savant. Remember the season where Baylor lost pretty much all of their QBs, and when from passing for 500+ yards every game to rushing for 500+ yards every game? Kendal had a big hand in developing a new scheme to transition to the talent they had available. He brought a lot of the new rushing focused offense to FAU and FAU ended up #6 in OFEI in 2017.

One thing is certain, looking out for potential HC's for GT while watching other games has certainly given games a new dynamic.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,791
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Day_(American_football)

I was actually thinking about him as a future HC somewhere. He has a VERY unique background as an assistant coach for various HCs. My concern with him is when he had control of the offense, it's not like he was doing something extraordinary with the talent at hand. Temple and BC are a close litmus test for coaching at GT in terms of academics and recruiting. He was poor to OK at calling the offense at both places in terms of OFEI. I wouldn't want to have to pay a premium for a coach who made his hay off of Urban Meyer's recruiting. Ohio State definitely looked great the first 3 games under him, and the offense was fun to watch, but it's still Urban Meyer's players and offense. Look at Tom Herman who was given the keys to the kingdom at Texas after OC'ing Meyer's teams.

An interesting name that would have been a great OC under a CEO type coach is Kendall Briles...Art Briles son. Unfortunately, he's a bit tainted from the Baylor scandal. Look what he did under his father at Baylor, as the OC for Lane Kiffen at FAU, and what he doing now for Major Applewhite at Houston. He's an offensive savant. Remember the season where Baylor lost pretty much all of their QBs, and when from passing for 500+ yards every game to rushing for 500+ yards every game? Kendal had a big hand in developing a new scheme to transition to the talent they had available. He brought a lot of the new rushing focused offense to FAU and FAU ended up #6 in OFEI in 2017.

One thing is certain, looking out for potential HC's for GT while watching other games has certainly given games a new dynamic.
U of H hates Texas -
1. which refused to let them in big 12 after saying they would.
2. Paid super big bucks to take their coach (Herman).
Tillman Fertitas ( u of H grad, owner of restaurants, Houston rockets , Golden nugget casino, and chancellor of u of h) is openly hostile to UT.
After they hired Herman, TF hired a an Legendary EX UT qb as head coach and given him lots of $ to hire assistant coaches.
Kendall did good at baylor, but he did have his dad at the helm teaching him.
 

Lavoisier

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
847
I just don't think any of these wide open spread guys will work out in the Southeast. Clemson is really the only one who's done it since the Percy Harvin years at UF. Even my Auburn friends are fed up with Gus's ineptitude unless he has absolute world class players. Mullen was never really any better than GT at Mississippi State and he had 4 and 5 star kids. We'll see how he does as UF but he hasn't looked great with the UK loss. Fedora might be gone after this season at UNC. You really need elite players, like better than even Auburn gets regularly, to run any of these spread offenses at a high level and we just aren't going to get it. That's my opinion on why I don't want most of the guys that have been listed.

If we are willing to poach in conference, I think Clawson at Wake is a good fit. Similar academic hurdles and recruiting issues. He's taken the Deacons to back to back bowl wins and knocked off some teams he shouldn't have like NC State and Texas A&M last year. Even W-L aside his teams hang around with most teams they play despite being Wake Forest.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,397
U of H hates Texas -
1. which refused to let them in big 12 after saying they would.
2. Paid super big bucks to take their coach (Herman).
Tillman Fertitas ( u of H grad, owner of restaurants, Houston rockets , Golden nugget casino, and chancellor of u of h) is openly hostile to UT.
After they hired Herman, TF hired a an Legendary EX UT qb as head coach and given him lots of $ to hire assistant coaches.
Kendall did good at baylor, but he did have his dad at the helm teaching him.

Kendall Briles is continuing to do well....VERY well without his daddy looking over him. Fun offense to watch, and the guy will run the ball down your throat if he has to. Houston - Texas Tech game last Saturday was INSANE:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/boxscore?gameId=401013323

 

jchens_GT

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
573
Location
Georgia
Agree with you on your S and C comments. I’ve seen too many guys that were in the program that failed to ever put on one ounce of good weight. Freeman comes to mind off the top of my head.

Agree. A few of GT’s S&C coaches from the O’Leary and early Gailey years are at UGA now. I thought we did a solid job of developing players during that time.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,397
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...y-index-usc-rutgers-florida-state/1328224002/

Georgia Tech: Since the Misery Index came into existence several years ago, the Yellow Jackets have landed on this list from time to time. The fundamental tension in the program practically lends itself to that. Paul Johnson will adamantly claim he’s overachieved thanks to his triple-option offense at a school with tough academics that hasn’t always had a strong financial commitment to football. Johnson’s detractors say he wouldn’t have to overachieve if he were more effective at procuring talent and that the ceiling should be higher on a program located in the middle of one of the three best metropolitan areas for recruiting in the country. That debate has simmered through some ups and downs, but Johnson won the argument by guiding Tech to four ACC title game appearances in his first seven years. Not all arguments are final, however. Johnson is in the midst of a bad dry spell: Seven losses in his last nine games against FBS teams, seven straight losses away from home and potentially a third season in his last four without a bowl bid unless Tech can turn things around quickly. With a reasonable buyout of $4 million, more and more Georgia Tech fans are saying they’ve had enough.

A couple of things here:

As I pointed out in another thread, over the last 30 years, GT has only had 1 bad hire...a name I don't care to repeat. Since Ross, only one coach either didn't play for the ACC Championship or win the ACC Championship. We know who that was. It's not like CPJ took over a bad situation, as GT was a year removed from an ACCCG appearance, and we had a long bowl streak going. Before that, O'Leary did some pretty good thing for the program and even coached a runner up for Heisman with an exciting offense. What CPJ did was raise the ceiling a bit...which, IMO, he was hired to do after the consistently bland 7 wins a year Chan Gailey. But, he also lowered the floor.

In terms of financial commitment, I didn't hear CPJ complaining when he was one of the top 3 highest paid in the ACC, though that has changed with recent new hires and extensions. Also, GT spends money on football in the same league as 90% of the college teams out there. We're just not competing with Clemson/'Bama/Texas/UGA/FSU...and whatever monster factories. Then again, 90% of college football isn't either. Reasonable GT fans realize we are not competing with them on that level, but the hope is to reasonably compete with them on the field. Yet, somehow, GT has facilities and resources a lot of schools don't. CPJ wanted an indoor practice facility, and he got one...in a land locked Major city no less. CPJ wanted extra staff and new locker rooms. He got it. Sure, it may have taken a bit, but all those things take a while. Saban asked for major upgrades, and even the big machine that is 'Bama football had to take time to make it happen. More money has been spent on our program under CPJ than any other coach.

GT football was fine before CPJ, it will be fine after CPJ as well.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
You should be able to figure out “AD discretion” without more hints
Also, TStan has been transparent about ideas for the future of our program


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Unless you mean "he can spend it as he damn well pleases", then no, one can't figure out a slip sliding sidestep. Even an engineer, because that is an equation where "x" actually doesn't represent anything. It's just x.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,727
Unless you mean "he can spend it as he damn well pleases", then no, one can't figure out a slip sliding sidestep. Even an engineer, because that is an equation where "x" actually doesn't represent anything. It's just x.

It’s not a sidestep, it’s to have some flexibility in budgeting

1. It’s not designated , so if spending on facilities goes over, you can use it for that.
2. If you have to buy a coach out, you can use those funds
3. If you don’t have to buy a coach out, you can use it for support staff
4. Marketing/etc.
5. Most important, if one of his staff has a great idea during the year, he can say “yes” instead of “wait until next year’s fundraising “


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

year_of_the_swarm

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
360
I had not really thought about this but the evidence you present is irrefutable. The rest of us literally have no chance of competing for titles which really begs the question for most programs, what then, is the point? To the names you have listed there are a few elite factory type schools that have not tasted glory with a national championship but certainly have the resources and the recruiting bases to do so. LSU, Nebraska, Texas A&M, Notre Dame, UGA, Michigan, and Penn State to name a few. So realistically you have about 17 to 21 teams that are in the universe of national title contenders.

I am beginning to think with the rampant cheating, paying players, academic shenanigans, bagmen, and the like associated with these "institutions of higher learning", perhaps it would be better for certain teams to cut ties with the NCAA which has become a laughingstock and form their own league.

I am thinking primarily of colleges that are willing to maintain a semblance of academic integrity, adhere to an agreed SAT and high school scholastic record standard and simply withdraw from the rat race of football factories that are no better than pro football minor leagues. To be sure, this is admittedly nothing more than wistful thinking on my part but I am thinking about primarily the private universities like Duke, Wake Forest, SMU, Northwestern, the military academies, Tech, Vanderbilt, Syracuse, Boston College, Pittsburgh, perhaps some others like Virginia, Tulane, Temple, and others that see through the hypocrisy that is currently going on. On the other hand, it is likely that the lure of easy money would be too hard to resist and therefore the aforementioned would continue to be punching bags for the factories to varying degrees.

Good post... pretty much along the lines of what I was trying to claim. Then you look at someone like Notre Dame, with all their money, resources, prestige, history, TV deals, etc... They haven't won a championship in 30 years. Think about how long that is. Thats nearly half a persons lifetime, and its entirely possible they go another 20-25 years without one.

Seems weird to me to be obsessed with something that happens 1-2 times a lifetime, at most.
 

MikeJackets1967

Helluva Engineer
Messages
14,844
Location
Lovely Ducktown,Tennessee
Good post... pretty much along the lines of what I was trying to claim. Then you look at someone like Notre Dame, with all their money, resources, prestige, history, TV deals, etc... They haven't won a championship in 30 years. Think about how long that is. Thats nearly half a persons lifetime, and its entirely possible they go another 20-25 years without one.

Seems weird to me to be obsessed with something that happens 1-2 times a lifetime, at most.
It's weird that Alabama can win a National Title every year or every other year:rolleyes:
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,760
Except thx to Dave brainless hewitt's contract was a perpetual rollover unless you fired him. At the end his teams were horrible. He recruited a lot of talent but he couldn't do much with them at the end. Couldn't even coach them to get the freakin ball inbounds.

Thanx for reminding me - now I remember the endless loop we were caught in. What a disaster.
 
Top