Lack of QB Progression

[GTNavyNuke]

While our O is great in theory and a thing of beauty when it works, implementing the theory on a consistent basis has been very challenging.We haven't had a QB that has really flourished and become better every year. I was thinking about that this morning and pulled down some stats about how our QBs seem to plateau or regress.

Then @Boomergump made the comment about the mid-line & running up the middle not really being JT's thing. https://gtswarm.com/threads/vt-postgame.8603/page-6#post-192519 I don't know that there is a QB we will ever get (Micheal Vick, Cam Newton) who can really flourish in all aspects of the game with D1 P5 punishment.

Here are our principal starting QBs:

JN - my favorite player under CPJ. He was a great runner but couldn't pass with consistent accuracy. From 2008 to 2010 his passing was always average or worse (QBR 96.3, 121.5 and 105 in 2008 to 2010). His rushing was solid and he would get the extra yard when needed (average yds per carry 4.03, 3.72 and 4.44). His reads and pitching got better as years went by.

TW - Worked well within the system till he got tired at the end of the game. Not a great runner (except on the goal line over the RG) with decreasing yardage as the years went by (ypc 6.67, 4.43, 4.07, 3.86 in 2009 to 2012). He did progress passing, although we won more the less we passed. (QBR 276, 99, 115.4, 147).

Vad - So much promise and ability. But he burned out here and got gun shy. (ypc 5.67 and 2.82 in 2012 and 13). His passing also regressed - 150 and 127 in 2012 and 2013.

JT - Declining in both passing and rushing. ypc 7.09, 5.72 and 3.56 in 2013 to 15. QBR 114, 153 and 125, and the 125 is only because of the beginning of the season ..... http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/player/255/1047228/passing/gamelog.html

Now I've argued for a long time (especially when intoxicated during the games), that we should play the back up a lot more to prevent the banging up of our starter and to develop the back up for the future (like Navy does). I know it's not conventional wisdom to "platoon" QBs, but conventional wisdom while usually right is not always right (or we'd still be in the Dark Ages). We just need that back up. Byerly was the one (QBR of 31, 190, 293 and ypc 6.61, 4.53 and 6.00). Even though he was injured in one of the first weeks of the year, no one else has been given a real chance this year.

I'd like to see MJ start just to mess with Miami. If it works great, if not, put in JT in the second quarter. What's another loss? It should improve our chances for UGAg either by resting JT or finding an alternative when JT can't pass accurately.

 

[Boomergump]

Time will tell if we get that guy. What we need is someone who can run the mid-line and get tough yards on the interior like Nesbitt, have a great 7 step drop passing and see over the line like Vad Lee, make reads like Washington, and have breakaway speed, elusiveness, and passing accuracy like JT. That isn't too much to ask, is it?

 

[GTNavyNuke]

Time will tell if we get that guy. What we need is someone who can run the mid-line and get tough yards on the interior like Nesbitt, have a great 7 step drop passing and see over the line like Vad Lee, make reads like Washington, and have breakaway speed, elusiveness, and passing accuracy like JT. That isn't too much to ask, is it?

Not too much. And I'd want one of those guys every two years so we can give them playing time till they become the starter.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Even if we had that guy this year....the results might only be marginally better. Win and lose as a team. Good players make other players around them better....or at least appear to be better (Shaq and Snelter did)

 

[alagold]

I'm beginning to think that the guy who can really run this offense without SUPERIOR players (not avg) at back and WR is almost impossible to find.He must be short/skilled enough to takes quick steps for the ball-handling, tough enough for continuous hits,he must be strong/fast enough to break tackles and away, also tall enough to see the receivers (even over the middle) and good enough passing to burn a def.

JN had everything but the passing-once he lost BayBay (er,one of best WRs in pro fball) he was hurting
TW- learned the skills but avg on strength ,speed and passing.
Vad- poor ball handling and lacked quickness
JT- skilled in handling, fast but short and very avg passer

really it might come down to having a Bback that is successful for this OFF to work--if it doesn't go ,nothing else will because the QB is wasting a precious second giving/faking to bback almost everytime-so if the bback is not respected nothing else much will work- the LBs come,the safeties cheat on pitch and the QB has no time to pass--sound familiar?

 

[Scubapro]

JT is the right QB for Georgia Tech...It is difficult to rate JT this year due to the lack of blocking. On many 3O plays the Mike Linebacker runs free to the outside blowing up the play. Pass blocking is non existent.
We saw what JT was capable of last season but no one can perform without decent blocking.

 

[alagold]

speaking of progression--
maybe too futuristic but in '17 we will have a new QB for sure--right now there doesn't seem to be a guy that has showed all the needed abilities on the roster unless Ratcliffe comes back
-passing ability probably is the biggest lacking it seems right now

 

[Techster]

One of the biggest problems with our offense in terms of QBs progressing in the passing game is due to scheme.

Our passing concepts are based off of Run and Shoot concepts. That's not a secret. Well, if you know anything about the RnS, it's that it's repetition intensive...just like our option concepts. Our WRs, ABs, and QBs have to be on the same page reading coverage. While JeT could actually be progressing in terms of seeing coverages and attacking them, he's dependant on our WRs and ABs being on the same page to take advantage of those progressions. Well, if you think about it, our starting WRs are a true Freshmen, and redshirt freshmen...and our ABs are all redshirt or true freshmen. Not only are they adjusting to the speed of the game, but they also trying to drink water from a fire hose trying to learn our offense...then applying against college level defenses/defenders/speed. On top of that, our OL has been horrendous in terms of pass blocking. All those elements are not conducive in achieving an optimum QB rating.

Well, we run 70+ percent of the time, and I would venture to guess our practice time allocation for the run/pass would be similar. If you think about how many reps are needed to produce an effective product for RnS concepts, it's going to be hard to do it when our offensive philosophy and practice time is heavily slanted to the run. As CPJ has stated MANY times, if our guys want to be good at passing and for him to call more passing plays, they have to practice our passing concepts more outside of practice. We know why.

That being said, if you look at the passing numbers this year, JeT is actually on pace to have the second best passing year in terms of yardage and TD/INT ratio since....2014. His first year as a starter. His completion percentage is down, but he's got 12TDs to 6 INTs. He's got 1,263 yards. Outside of 2014 (1,719 yards, 18/6 TD-INT), the second the two other years where we had a credible passing attack was 2009 with Nesbitt (1,701 - 10/5), 2011 with Tevin (1,652 - 11/8). Vad in 2013 was 1561 - 11/10. As a duo, Vad and Tevin in 2012 was 1,818 12/8.

I think we will see a better JeT in 2016 once the young guys have had an offseason to digest what they need to do to improve, and just from learning from experience. They will be playing more next season as opposed to thinking.

 

[Boomergump]

I have no idea why people think JT is not a good passer. In my book he is far and away the best passing QB we have had at GT in the CPJ era. Who would you put ahead of him?

 

[iceeater1969]

I wonder about our pass routes.
They all seem like long developing run and

speaking of progression--
maybe too futuristic but in '17 we will have a new QB for sure--right now there doesn't seem to be a guy that has showed all the needed abilities on the roster unless Ratcliffe comes back
-passing ability probably is the biggest lacking it seems right now

Tim B while a maybe with ncaa is a good passer and has skills = truely a replacement qb. If we think ncaa 50/50 on tb, we need a look at mj s progress in a real game . It should be substantial by now.

 

[Declinometer]

I have no idea why people think JT is not a good passer. In my book he is far and away the best passing QB we have had at GT in the CPJ era. Who would you put ahead of him?

Like winning the shortest midget contest. JN threw better

 

[yellojello]

Like winning the shortest midget contest. JN threw better

JN threw better? Haha ok. Tells me all I need.

 

[gtg936g]

I don't think it is fair to say running the midline isn't JT's thing. Getting yards after contact may not be JT's thing, but the midline has a lot to do with a speedy guard that can get out and open a lane. Bring Shaq back, and JT would look good running the midline . Just like he did vs Mississippi State.

 

[iceeater1969]

Last year didn't jt have more on purpose roll out passes? He is by far the best at rolling right , watching receiver, recognizing when he will be open, stopping and quickly passing.

2015
Hard to rollout when running for life.

 

[Declinometer]

JN threw better? Haha ok. Tells me all I need.

Don't you have some dishes to wash

 

[GTFLETCH]

MJ should only play if we have a 21 point lead..... Since h will be moving back to AB next year when C. Campbell is ready to back up JT....This is a moot point! Now if you want to talk about OC issues or should we keep trying to run a TO play when a Safety is clearly blowing up the play for 3 qtrs (how to lose to VT) or should we finally call another play then you are talking...

 

[ATL1]

Learn to block the trolls.

I watched Georgia Southern platoon QB's as well. I think in this offense it most likely a necessity to do that, but CPJ is stubborn. It would also help to put JT in the gun more, & I know some of the players agree that would help JT out but Paul's not gonna do it, even despite gun plays being in his playbook.

I don't know how much of the passing game is worked on by coach and if it's made a priority for him enough to make it a consistent part of the game plan even when the run is working. IMO the passing game needs to work on getting skill players in space more but that's deaf ear thoughts.

 

[iceeater1969]

MJ should only play if we have a 21 point lead..... Since h will be moving back to AB next year when C. Campbell is ready to back up JT....This is a moot point! Now if you want to talk about OC issues or should we keep trying to run a TO play when a Safety is clearly blowing up the play for 3 qtrs (how to lose to VT) or should we finally call another play then you are talking...

Not so sure the cc guy is ready to go in (byerly gone, jt injured) early next year.

Rest of your post is for another thread

 

[LarryMunson]

MJ should only play if we have a 21 point lead.......

yes as long as it's late in the 4th.

 

[ATL1]

@Justa Fan has advised Campbell will not play QB next season.