Ken’s Halfway Point Breakdown

[4shotB]

So there is an extensive history of trolling here?

My take on this question. This place was usually very cordial and civil for a long period of time. The last 2 years (ish) a number of people started turning on Coach Johnson and his system. It become a vendetta of sorts. When Geoff came on, a number of the fans who were big supporters of Paul and his system saw a chance to turn the tables and go on offense rather than defense for a change.

Excluding 6-7 people in each camp (whom you quickly will learn to recognize) who take this thing way too seriously for adults imo and spend too much time tossing cliches and one liners at each other,this place is generally a great place to glean info and news on GT athletics. It won't take long to sift the fly crap from the pepper so to speak.

BTW, welcome to the board!

 

[33jacket]

Lol that is not what that means at all

Agreed. People are reading or hearing way too much in these pressers. Coach Pat is stating the obvious. Not saying thats what he needs to be successful. In fact if u ask him. He thinks we have 2 elite wr (both young and learning how to run routes and read option routes), he believes we have a solid TE and 1 elite RB.

What he doesnt believe is we are even anywhere close on the line. And he has a qb that has athleticism, potential, but really never passed in high school and his first year here was spent reading the dive. Its almost 100 percent new for graham in every facet.

Btw, i will repeat. The offense is making strides now. It is. It hasnt put it together because still a large learning curve and a line that doesnt fit inside edge footwork and lateral quickness. I can see on tape they are getting better.

Miami may not be a good next game for us cuz their D. But i am optimistic we are going to turn a corner soon and be more competitive. Maybe even win 1-2.

If that happens, and we finish 3-9. It sucks. But i thought this was a 3-4 win team anyway. So not crying.

 

[stech81]

Agreed. People are reading or hearing way too much in these pressers. Coach Pat is stating the obvious. Not saying thats what he needs to be successful. In fact if u ask him. He thinks we have 2 elite wr (both young and learning how to run routes and read option routes), he believes we have a solid TE and 1 elite RB.

What he doesnt believe is we are even anywhere close on the line. And he has a qb that has athleticism, potential, but really never passed in high school and his first year here was spent reading the dive. Its almost 100 percent new for graham in every facet.

Btw, i will repeat. The offense is making strides now. It is. It hasnt put it together because still a large learning curve and a line that doesnt fit inside edge footwork and lateral quickness. I can see on tape they are getting better.

Miami may not be a good next game for us cuz their D. But i am optimistic we are going to turn a corner soon and be more competitive. Maybe even win 1-2.

If that happens, and we finish 3-9. It sucks. But i thought this was a 3-4 win team anyway. So not crying.

I can buy the 2 WR's and RB but who is the TE that is solid ?

 

[slugboy]

What he doesnt believe is we are even anywhere close on the line. And he has a qb that has athleticism, potential, but really never passed in high school and his first year here was spent reading the dive. Its almost 100 percent new for graham in every facet.

Last year, an awful lot of our linemen were in the 260’s, 270’s, and 280’s. Two years ago, Shamire Devine changed our average OL size on his own by weighing in at 380, while the rest of the team was in that same 260-280 lb weight class.

This off season, it looks like a lot of our linemen gained about 10 pounds. Zack Quinney gained about 20. That’s in the first six months after changing the goals of the S&C program. I’m not saying Quinney gains another 20 pounds, but 18 months vs 6 months should make a big difference in what our players can do.

Technique is another factor, and it’s not my best area to speak to (I didn’t play OLine).

Anyway, our OLine had a long way to go to transition to a new scheme. They’ve come a long way already. Getting there in six months was a tough journey.


Edit: Easy to check trends over time at https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/georgia-tech-yellow-jackets-team-roster?season=2018

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Coloradojacket]

LOL....from about the time I played football in the 5th grade to when I coached 5th graders through 8th graders.....at all levels players need to execute to make plays. I find the statement and the statements here funny. If the line does not block then the play fails. This is true in all levels.

 

[Ash]

The only thing I am looking for is signs that the current coaching staff is capable of putting a group of players on the field that can win in 2-3 years. They can't seem to get the current group coached up and put them in a position to perform.

 

[smokey_wasp]

I wasn’t expecting much this year but I don’t feel like I’ve gotten half a seasons worth of football...

/

It has definitely flown by and it still feels like we are trying to get out of the starting gate. I think we are getting to a point where I hoped we'd be when the season started.

 

[33jacket]

I can buy the 2 WR's and RB but who is the TE that is solid ?

he is blocking pretty good actually, early this year had plays open, we had no qb worth a spit. He needs to make that one catch, I think the second half this year you will see he is solid. Not nfl. Not elite. But good enough to play and contribute. The screens to him are dumb, he is not an in space player, but digs, seams, he is fine.

 

[33jacket]

Last year, an awful lot of our linemen were in the 260’s, 270’s, and 280’s. Two years ago, Shamire Devine changed our average OL size on his own by weighing in at 380, while the rest of the team was in that same 260-280 lb weight class.

This off season, it looks like a lot of our linemen gained about 10 pounds. Zack Quinney gained about 20. That’s in the first six months after changing the goals of the S&C program. I’m not saying Quinney gains another 20 pounds, but 18 months vs 6 months should make a big difference in what our players can do.

Technique is another factor, and it’s not my best area to speak to (I didn’t play OLine).

Anyway, our OLine had a long way to go to transition to a new scheme. They’ve come a long way already. Getting there in six months was a tough journey.


Edit: Easy to check trends over time at https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/georgia-tech-yellow-jackets-team-roster?season=2018

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

weight is one thing, but guys like connor hansen just don't fit what we do. He can't move the way we want and reaches because of lack of length. I don't know what he is listed at, but he plays shorter and his arms are not long. But if you look at him now, he is built like a blown up tick. Perfect to be low and drive off the ball.

Its this transition that is especially tough. Look at quinney. He is solid, more traditional in frame and is actually doing ok. Not bad. And, really moving defoor to inside is ok too. But the whole right side is a train wreck. Choo. Choo.

 

[InsideLB]

Two most experienced OL out for season, along with starting guard Minihan, and Morgan also extremely limited.

So the offense has had a very, very, very, very big challenge this season. In my opinion, the OL who are playing have done an amazing job given the circumstances and Coach Key has coached his arse off as well. The problem is it doesn't matter what you call, you are going to struggle.

I will say from being on a very good college team who beat the crap out of most teams, you do see that most teams mail it in during the second half and you get scores like 66-1t0. You can tell when the other team has pride and keeps competing....and in my personal experience that's actually rare. So it means something to me that our guys are still competing hard.

 

[Sidewalking]

weight is one thing, but guys like connor hansen just don't fit what we do. He can't move the way we want and reaches because of lack of length. I don't know what he is listed at, but he plays shorter and his arms are not long. But if you look at him now, he is built like a blown up tick. Perfect to be low and drive off the ball.

Its this transition that is especially tough. Look at quinney. He is solid, more traditional in frame and is actually doing ok. Not bad. And, really moving defoor to inside is ok too. But the whole right side is a train wreck. Choo. Choo.

Collins seems to like Hansen's toughness and effort. He may lack optimal length but a heavy dose of toughness and effort can overcome that imo. I think Collins said Hansen has been dinged up since the spring also. So that on top of transitioning to a new style and an increased focus on different techniques may account for your disappointment in his play thus far. As for his movement, he seemed to have pretty decent feet last year when pulling so I would expect him to have pretty decent feet in pass pro also. Again may just come down to needing more reps and experience in the new scheme.

As for me. I have to really slow down tape and watch what every guy on the OL is doing to judge their performance. There are so many moving parts each play with each player having a different responsibility each play. If one guy misses an assignment it can blow up everything everyone else is doing. And I honestly haven't bothered to review film to evaluate any of our OL in detail. The overall results have been painful to see though. How often have you seen his assignment beat him generally?

 

[Jim Prather]

So some people will take this as a snarky question, but I am actually asking very seriously...
I think most everyone here recognizes that the offensive line performance has been subpar. I also think most people would agree that the type of players recruited for a fire off the ball, stay low, and drive block offense need a different body type than a standard pass blocking based offense. Our coaches talk about having the right "body type" on a fairly regular basis, so they understand this. Compound this phenotype discrepancy with the myriad injuries and multiple transfers, it means we are playing with a very thin line who were recruited to do something VERY different.
Given all of these factors, the coaches have chosen to run, and continue to run, an offense for which it appears we don't have the correct personnel on the OL. Our coaches are very smart, They probably foresaw this happening as soon as the first OL went down.
What is rationale for continuing the same offense? Do we not have a contingency plan? Is this the only offense they know how to coach? Do we not have time to install a different series of plays - perhaps a 2 back power package... Is it as simple as keeping up appearances of being a "modern" offense?
I am really interested in hearing the answers - especially from the former players.

 

[4shotB]

What is rationale for continuing the same offense? Do we not have a contingency plan? Is this the only offense they know how to coach? Do we not have time to install a different series of plays - perhaps a 2 back power package... Is it as simple as keeping up appearances of being a "modern" offense?
I am really interested in hearing the answers - especially from the former players.

these are great questions and I am anxious to hear the input of those more knowledgeable than myself. One downside perhaps to that is maybe you eke out another win or two but delay the development of the other players on O, most especially the QB. I guess that depends on how much the coaches value the short term (say we had 2 more wins now than what we currently do) vs. the long term.
Another point maybe is that its hard to get anybody to get outside of what they know and are comfortable with. For example, CPJ dipped his toe into the shotgun or pistol but it was with a perceived sens of reluctance and went back to his wheelhouse quickly. Let me hasten to say I was a fan of CPJ. Then let me add that this doesn't mean I am rooting against Coach Collins. All disclaimers are place and let me hasten to say that no animals were harmed or injured in the typing of my response. Hopefully, I have appeased everyone!

 

[takethepoints]

weight is one thing, but guys like connor hansen just don't fit what we do. He can't move the way we want and reaches because of lack of length. I don't know what he is listed at, but he plays shorter and his arms are not long. But if you look at him now, he is built like a blown up tick. Perfect to be low and drive off the ball.

Shaq Mason and Bill Bellichick say hello.

You can, and I think both Collins and Key see this, block in a shotgun spread just fine at 6'2" and 314. It may take awhile to get the moves down and to get the coaches to adjust the offense to your strengths but it can be done.

 

[Ibeeballin]

So some people will take this as a snarky question, but I am actually asking very seriously...
I think most everyone here recognizes that the offensive line performance has been subpar. I also think most people would agree that the type of players recruited for a fire off the ball, stay low, and drive block offense need a different body type than a standard pass blocking based offense. Our coaches talk about having the right "body type" on a fairly regular basis, so they understand this. Compound this phenotype discrepancy with the myriad injuries and multiple transfers, it means we are playing with a very thin line who were recruited to do something VERY different.
Given all of these factors, the coaches have chosen to run, and continue to run, an offense for which it appears we don't have the correct personnel on the OL. Our coaches are very smart, They probably foresaw this happening as soon as the first OL went down.
What is rationale for continuing the same offense? Do we not have a contingency plan? Is this the only offense they know how to coach? Do we not have time to install a different series of plays - perhaps a 2 back power package... Is it as simple as keeping up appearances of being a "modern" offense?
I am really interested in hearing the answers - especially from the former players.

So what offense should they run is the question? You suggested 2 back with a lead blocker. Cool, but are you going to block the correct person and push the pile?!? Should we go back to the TO and have non TO coaches call a TO game? Good luck with that.

Story time:

I transitioned in 2008 from an aggressive zone blitz Tenuta scheme to a read n react Cov 4 based Wommack scheme. The coaching staff thought it would be good idea to keep half of Tenuta blitzes to merge Wommack scheme. What happened miscommunication galore. Ex. Tenuta blitzes were designated with bird names that began with the blitzer who going. So let’s use Wren which is WLB blitz. Under Wommack, he thought it was bright to change the names of the linebackers. So the SLB became the Wolf & the WLB became the Stinger. So imagine the thinking that went on when those blitzes were called. Also, when you are calling a game with something you are not comfortable with, when do you call that Tenuta blitz vs. your particular scheme?
Changing schemes creates doubt and will have you losing players quicker than most realize.

 

[year_of_the_swarm]

They should just keep running the offense that GC wants to install at this point... No reason to adjust significantly. Just keep improving on it and working with it. We will likely see some good glimpses.

 

[Spalding Jacket]

So what offense should they run is the question? You suggested 2 back with a lead blocker. Cool, but are you going to block the correct person and push the pile?!? Should we go back to the TO and have non TO coaches call a TO game? Good luck with that.

Story time:

I transitioned in 2008 from an aggressive zone blitz Tenuta scheme to a read n react Cov 4 based Wommack scheme. The coaching staff thought it would be good idea to keep half of Tenuta blitzes to merge Wommack scheme. What happened miscommunication galore. Ex. Tenuta blitzes were designated with bird names that began with the blitzer who going. So let’s use Wren which is WLB blitz. Under Wommack, he thought it was bright to change the names of the linebackers. So the SLB became the Wolf & the WLB became the Stinger. So imagine the thinking that went on when those blitzes were called. Also, when you are calling a game with something you are not comfortable with, when do you call that Tenuta blitz vs. your particular scheme?
Changing schemes creates doubt and will have you losing players quicker than most realize.

His defenses were described as controlled chaos. Now we know a little more why. Thanks for the insight Ibee.

 

[pbrown520]

They should run the schemes they know. Keep it simple at first and expand. From my POV as a fan it seems like the biggest schematic issues at first were simply trying to do too much (other than normal growing pains of new systems).

 

[33jacket]

Shaq Mason and Bill Bellichick say hello.

You can, and I think both Collins and Key see this, block in a shotgun spread just fine at 6'2" and 314. It may take awhile to get the moves down and to get the coaches to adjust the offense to your strengths but it can be done.

Ah the classic one off counter point that doesnt prove much. Typical gt board.

For every shaq mason u can point out. I can point to 100s or 1000s of ol that dont fit our new scheme with the same build. But that doesnt prove anything either

What does is the tape. And connor hansen aint no shaq mason

 

[Jim Prather]

So what offense should they run is the question? You suggested 2 back with a lead blocker. Cool, but are you going to block the correct person and push the pile?!? Should we go back to the TO and have non TO coaches call a TO game? Good luck with that.

Story time:

I transitioned in 2008 from an aggressive zone blitz Tenuta scheme to a read n react Cov 4 based Wommack scheme. The coaching staff thought it would be good idea to keep half of Tenuta blitzes to merge Wommack scheme. What happened miscommunication galore. Ex. Tenuta blitzes were designated with bird names that began with the blitzer who going. So let’s use Wren which is WLB blitz. Under Wommack, he thought it was bright to change the names of the linebackers. So the SLB became the Wolf & the WLB became the Stinger. So imagine the thinking that went on when those blitzes were called. Also, when you are calling a game with something you are not comfortable with, when do you call that Tenuta blitz vs. your particular scheme?
Changing schemes creates doubt and will have you losing players quicker than most realize.

I am actually not proposing anything - I am asking people who know more than I do... I'm not looking for a debate, just knowledge.
The analytical part of my mind says "If our players aren't well suited to what we are doing and we aren't putting our players in the best possible position to be successful, what can we do better?" Then I ask myself, "Well our coaches are smart, so they would have already have thought of all this. Why haven't we adapted?" And I figure that there is a good reason, so I ask people with more experience than I have...
And if I am interpreting your story correctly (and please correct me if I am not), you are saying that at this point, adding a new series of plays, such as the power package I mentioned before, would not be effective because it would cause confusion among the offense. Moreover, trying to change offensive identities midway into a season might cause the players to lose confidence in what they have learned up to this point...