Johnson

Techster

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Doesn't matter. Totally irrelevant to my point. Other STEM schools aren't even trying to do what we do.

What's your point then? I thought we were talking about the football team, not the Aeronautics Team.

You're trying to force a round peg in a square hole to make your point.

So again I ask...how many of our scholarship players have STEM majors?
 

iceeater1969

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What's your point then? I thought we were talking about the football team, not the Aeronautics Team.

You're trying to force a round peg in a square hole to make your point.

So again I ask...how many of our scholarship players have STEM majors?

The SAT scores for Stanford students are 100 points higher then GT. How about this comparison
What is average SAT score for Stanford verses gt football players?
Dont need names _ nust average for starters.

Maybe u guys can find info.
 

Techster

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The SAT scores for Stanford students are 100 points higher then GT. How about this comparison
What is average SAT score for Stanford verses gt football players?
Dont need names _ nust average for starters.

Maybe u guys can find info.

Yeah, but Calculus...and STEM majors...and the Varsity's food gives you the poops...and rush hour traffic on 285...
 

dressedcheeseside

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What's your point then? I thought we were talking about the football team, not the Aeronautics Team.

You're trying to force a round peg in a square hole to make your point.

So again I ask...how many of our scholarship players have STEM majors?
Again, that's irrelevant. Academics isn't the only reason recruits choose schools. However, academics define GT to the core. It affects every aspect of student life including those of SA's.
 

RonJohn

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Oh right...because Calculus is this impossibility of a class that's going to keep us from ever getting anyone to come here, or ever achieving anything on the football field.

Remember, GT had a bowl streak of 17 straight years, and almost 20 years of never having a losing record in the ACC. If Calculus was this impossiblity of a class, you think GT would have been tied for the 2nd longest bowl streak in the nation? I mean, over 100+ teams with less strenuous academics couldn't accomplish that, but somehow GT with Calculus requirements could? Let's not oversell the difficulty of Calculus.

Bottom line is, our coaches need to find 15-20 guys a year out of the tens of thousands of recruits that play football who are capable of handling the academics at GT. Sure that excludes a big pool of kids, but there are more than enough kids willing to do the work. Otherwise, this 3-9 season would have been the norm instead of an outlier the last 20 years.

Let's also not undersell the actual issues. I in no way stated that calculus keeps us from getting ANYONE to come here or achieving on the field. 2014 worked out pretty well. The issue is that GT will NEVER be able to sign a large number of extremely highly rated recruits like Alabama does. I don't know anything about the academic situations of Alabama players, but I do know that EXTREME discipline issues are ignored by Alabama. GT will not be able to sign classes like UNC had several years ago. Calculus is one of those reasons. GT will not create a fake department to graduate players who never attend class.

I do remember that we had a bowl streak. I also remember that our recruiting rankings during that almost 20 years was constantly higher than 40. GT never has had a very highly rated class. 2006 was between 15-20 depending on the ranking service.

The coaches HAVE put together signing classes of guys that have been able to handle the academics. I don't know currently, but a few years ago, GT football freshmen had the highest SATs of all D1 programs. GT's APR numbers are very good. The guys are achieving in the classroom. They have been guys of good character. In your post, you admit that a large number of kids are excluded from being recruited because of academics. There are also a number of kids who are excluded because of character issues. When you START with a lower pool of eligible recruits, the chances of getting the top signing class are smaller.

I am proud of our team's players. I am proud of our team's character. I am much more proud of seasons like 2014 with our team than I would be if we copied UNCheat's practices and won a national title.
 

Techster

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Again, that's irrelevant. Academics isn't the only reason recruits choose schools. However, academics define GT to the core. It affects every aspect of student life including those of SA's.

In what way is our scholarship athlete's major irrelevant?

I mean, your point is GT is a predominently STEM school, and the majority of degrees coming out of GT are from STEM majors. No arguments there. EVERYONE agrees with this.

OK, so in order for your point to hold any water, that would mean our SAs are required to major in STEM fields.

So again I ask, how many of our 85 scholarship athletes are STEM majors? Let me help you out:

http://www.ramblinwreck.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/geot-m-footbl-mtt.html

Just click on each player's bio. It lists each player's major in the "Personal" section. (HINT: Let's all be glad there's a Business and Liberal Arts school).
 

RonJohn

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Techster

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Let's also not undersell the actual issues. I in no way stated that calculus keeps us from getting ANYONE to come here or achieving on the field.

That was certainly your inference when your entire post consisted of:

How many of our scholarship players pass calculus?

How many of Stanford's scholarship players pass calculus?


I don't disagree with anything you said in your last post. Let's just not make a moutain out of a mole hill with one class.
 

RonJohn

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That was certainly your inference when your entire post consisted of:

How many of our scholarship players pass calculus?

How many of Stanford's scholarship players pass calculus?
.

I did not intend to infer that we can't sign anyone who can play. It was a counter argument to your question about how many football players get STEM degrees. Regardless of major(even liberal arts or the highly regarded business school), every student at GT is required to take academically challenging courses. I personally know a few former SEC scholarship players who I am pretty sure could not pass the calculus classes.
 

iceeater1969

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This is old data, but from 2008:

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/paper-trail/2008/12/30/athletes-show-huge-gaps-in-sat-scores

Stanford was not in the top 10 of SAT scores for football players.
1. Good find.
2. I remember some big shake up back about a decade in stanford recruiting .
3. I would bet there players are about same as ours or a little higher.

My over riding point is if we look in a bigger area we could get more quality recruits. Lived in houston suburbs for 30 years. Schools are first rate in academics and football. At my sons school 3 all americans graduated over a 6 year period. 2 would have qualified for gt.
Sam Adams dt texas am and josh williams dt michigan . Both went to nfl . We had appreciation meal for ol and dl and nosh ate 3 loaves of french bread!
 

augustabuzz

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Entrance Math SAT gt = 660-760 stanford 700-790
Reading 600-700 stanford 680-780
Total gt 1360 stanford 1480.
Seems about right.
Never met an unimpressive Stanford grad.
THEY HAVE HARD CLASSES FOR SMART PEOPLE.

To SELL enough football recruits they recruits nationally.
Gt plan = even though we have a much more restrictive couse offering we believe that we only need to recruit within ga and near by states
Results. = 4 year recruiting ranking gt 56 Stanford 21.
End season ranking
2015 gt 0 votes S #7,
2014 gt 12 S 22 votes
2013 gt 0 votes S #11
2012 gt 0 votes S #6
2011 gt 0 votes S #7
2010 gt 0votes S #4
2009 gt # 13 S 49 votes
I like their record even though ours is not bad.

If we traded records bds would be sold out for the last 3 years and the forseable future === $$$$$$.
All I recommend is recruit houston dallas like we do tampa . Round trip tickets sw airlines 199$ !!
How old is your data? I recently read an article stating that our average SAT for current FR class is 1400.
 

RonJohn

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This is old data, but from 2008:

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/paper-trail/2008/12/30/athletes-show-huge-gaps-in-sat-scores

Stanford was not in the top 10 of SAT scores for football players.

After I posted this I remembered that when the AJC did this report in 2008, they didn't include many private universities. They used open records laws to get the information from public universities, and private universities, like Stanford, wouldn't respond. So, the fact that Stanford is not in the top 10 on this list doesn't mean anything.
 

DrJacket

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Bill Curry was there for an on-field recognition either last year or the year before. He said of our offense, "By design, it is ingenious. And, when they run it correctly it is as close to in-defensible as anything I've ever seen."
 

dressedcheeseside

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In what way is our scholarship athlete's major irrelevant?

I mean, your point is GT is a predominently STEM school, and the majority of degrees coming out of GT are from STEM majors. No arguments there. EVERYONE agrees with this.

OK, so in order for your point to hold any water, that would mean our SAs are required to major in STEM fields.

So again I ask, how many of our 85 scholarship athletes are STEM majors? Let me help you out:

http://www.ramblinwreck.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/geot-m-footbl-mtt.html

Just click on each player's bio. It lists each player's major in the "Personal" section. (HINT: Let's all be glad there's a Business and Liberal Arts school).
Your premise falls apart in paragraph 3.

Again, no other stem school has big boy football but many do play in lower divisions, much lower divisions. Explain.

I'll tell you. The two are not mutually exclusive, but it's pretty darn close.
 

iceeater1969

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How old is your data? I recently read an article stating that our average SAT for current FR class is 1400.
Google sat scores and found an
SAT pt reparation site "power score.com "

Guys - back in dr jacket, and 65's day the "jocks" ( micro aggression) to industrial management.
The closes comparison to a high academic school fielding a major football team is Stanford. We and they let in guys w lower SAT and they take the non very hard very scholastic classes. ( yes there are exceptions).

We are doing a great job getting guys in and then helping with academic support !
And that's what would be a big part in recruiting success in a larger area .
The families of the smarter good high character kids will like that and the kids will like the sign that says - 1 in 6 tech grads is a millionaire.
 

Techster

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Your premise falls apart in paragraph 3.

Again, no other stem school has big boy football but many do play in lower divisions, much lower divisions. Explain.

I'll tell you. The two are not mutually exclusive, but it's pretty darn close.

My premise is fine. In fact, my premise is so solid it undermines your point...that's why you're avoiding the answer to my question.

Your logic in beating the "GT IS STEM SCHOOL! GT IS A STEM SCHOOL!" drum falls apart when the fact that less than 15% (And I'm probably being generous here) of our scholarship SAs on the football team are NOT STEM majors.

If you want to say our athletes take a more rigorous academic course load than the average SA at other schools, you would have no arguments. No one is refuting that. No one is refuting that academics at GT makes it harder for us versus the typical FBS school. However, the problem with your "point" lies in the fact you're incorrectly trying to use one fact (the majority of degrees awarded at GT is STEM related) to support your "point", when another fact (the VAST majority of our scholarship SAs are non-STEM majors) undermines to your point.

That's pretty much the rebuttal anytime someone wants to bring up the "Stanford Defense" (not that I'm trying to bring it up again). FACT: The majority of degrees awarded by Stanford is STEM related. (Even you can't refute that) FACT: The majority of scholarship SAs on Stanford's football team do not major in STEM fields. Isn't that the gist of how everyone beats down posters who say "Yeah, but Stanford can do it, why can't GT?!" "Well, Stanford football players can hide is easier majors!" Um, that's kinda what GT is doing with majority of our SAs majoring in Business and Liberal arts and as opposed to STEM related majors.

You're being wishy washy with facts. Can't have it both ways my friend.
 
Last edited:

iceeater1969

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9,660
How old is your data? I recently read an article stating that our average SAT for current FR class is 1400.
Google sat scores and found an
SAT pt reparation site "power score.com "

Guys - back in dr jacket, and 65's day the "jocks" ( micro aggression) to industrial management.
The closes comparison to a high academic school fielding a major football team is Stanford. We and they let in guys w lower SAT and they take the non very hard very scholastic classes. ( yes there are exceptions).

We are doing a great job getting guys in and then helping with academic support !
And that's what would be a big part in recruiting success in a larger area .
The families of the smarter good high character kids will like that and the kids will like the sign that says - 1 in 6 tech grads is a millionaire.
Bill Curry was there for an on-field recognition either last year or the year before. He said of our offense, "By design, it is ingenious. And, when they run it correctly it is as close to in-defensible as anything I've ever seen."
 

dressedcheeseside

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14,218
My premise is fine. In fact, my premise is so solid it undermines your point...that's why you're avoiding the answer to my question.

Your logic in beating the "GT IS STEM SCHOOL! GT IS A STEM SCHOOL!" drum falls apart when the fact that less than 15% (And I'm probably being generous here) of our scholarship SAs on the football team are NOT STEM majors.

If you want to say our athletes take a more rigorous academic course load than the average SA at other schools, you would have no arguments. No one is refuting that. No one is refuting that academics at GT makes it harder for us versus the typical FBS school. However, the problem with your "point" lies in the fact you're incorrectly trying to use one fact (the majority of degrees awarded at GT is STEM related) to support your "point", when another fact (the VAST majority of our scholarship SAs are non-STEM majors) undermines to your point.

That's pretty much the rebuttal anytime someone wants to bring up the "Stanford Defense" (not that I'm trying to bring it up again). FACT: The majority of degrees awarded by Stanford is STEM related. (Even you can't refute that) FACT: The majority of scholarship SAs on Stanford's football team do not major in STEM fields. Isn't that the gist of how everyone beats down posters who say "Yeah, but Stanford can do it, why can't GT?!" "Well, Stanford football players can hide is easier majors!" Um, that's kinda what GT is doing with majority of our SAs majoring in Business and Liberal arts and as opposed to STEM related majors.

You're being wishy washy with facts. Can't have it both ways my friend.
I guess it's my fault you don't see my point, I must not be very clear.

Forget about what our SA's are majoring in for a moment. Put it aside. I think it is relevant, but put it aside for now.

There's a lot more that being a STEM school does to GT other than course selection. Let's list a few, shall we:

1. Small fan base derived from a small, select alumni base, many of which have zero interest in football. The ones that do are scattered to the four corners of the globe. This also plays into our small stadium. We don't exactly have SRO in our small stadium, either.
2. Unintentional, but real just the same, alienation of commonfolk fans. In the the rural south, the commonfolk fan identifies more strongly with the Uga's and Aubarns of the world and many tend to think GT fans and grads are intellectual, condescending snobs. Some of that is actually justifiable, imo.
3. Goofy, nerdy students and very few girls and the ones we do have are goofy, nerdy and ugly. Now this is not truth, but it is perception and in the world of recruiting, that is all that matters.
4. Professors who don't give a hang about if your an SA or not. I'm sure SA's at the factories enjoy a good deal of preferential treatment, even in their easy, peasy classes.
5. Having a small fanbase also means less money. Money means everything in college football. It doesn't guarantee success, but it makes it awful hard to compete with those who have it and spend it wisely.
6. An administration that does not suffer poor character. Even though I appreciate this angle, it does preclude us from several top quality recruits every year even though they couldn't get in academically anyway.
7. Narrow scope. Even if NONE of our players took STEM majors, we have way less to choose from that most every school we compete against for players. You can't tell me that doesn't hurt even a little bit. I can recall recruits in the past pass on Tech because we didn't offer what they wanted to study. It may have been a lie, maybe not, who knows?
8. Last but not least, grades and college preparation of the vast majority of blue chip high school players. Most of these guys are not well prepared for college, much less one of GT's caliber no matter what courses they take.

All of these factors/recruiting hurdles, and many more that don't readily jump to mind, are in some way caused, affected or impacted by our academic identity. That's what I'm talking about, not what each kid is majoring in.
 

Techster

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I guess it's my fault you don't see my point, I must not be very clear.

Forget about what our SA's are majoring in for a moment. Put it aside. I think it is relevant, but put it aside for now.

There's a lot more that being a STEM school does to GT other than course selection. Let's list a few, shall we:

1. Small fan base derived from a small, select alumni base, many of which have zero interest in football. The ones that do are scattered to the four corners of the globe. This also plays into our small stadium. We don't exactly have SRO in our small stadium, either.
2. Unintentional, but real just the same, alienation of commonfolk fans. In the the rural south, the commonfolk fan identifies more strongly with the Uga's and Aubarns of the world and many tend to think GT fans and grads are intellectual, condescending snobs. Some of that is actually justifiable, imo.
3. Goofy, nerdy students and very few girls and the ones we do have are goofy, nerdy and ugly. Now this is not truth, but it is perception and in the world of recruiting, that is all that matters.
4. Professors who don't give a hang about if your an SA or not. I'm sure SA's at the factories enjoy a good deal of preferential treatment, even in their easy, peasy classes.
5. Having a small fanbase also means less money. Money means everything in college football. It doesn't guarantee success, but it makes it awful hard to compete with those who have it and spend it wisely.
6. An administration that does not suffer poor character. Even though I appreciate this angle, it does preclude us from several top quality recruits every year even though they couldn't get in academically anyway.
7. Narrow scope. Even if NONE of our players took STEM majors, we have way less to choose from that most every school we compete against for players. You can't tell me that doesn't hurt even a little bit. I can recall recruits in the past pass on Tech because we didn't offer what they wanted to study. It may have been a lie, maybe not, who knows?
8. Last but not least, grades and college preparation of the vast majority of blue chip high school players. Most of these guys are not well prepared for college, much less one of GT's caliber no matter what courses they take.

All of these factors/recruiting hurdles, and many more that don't readily jump to mind, are in some way caused, affected or impacted by our academic identity. That's what I'm talking about, not what each kid is majoring in.

WHAT?!! Now you're moving the goal post and just trying to backtrack and throwing in extraneous other things that has NOTHING to do with our original discussion.

Why in the world would you even make it a point to say:

GT is the only STEM school that fields a FBS football team.

*I loosely define STEM school as one that has at least 60% of its degrees granted annually in STEM fields.

Nobody else that fits that profile plays big boy football. Why not? If this does not put our recruiting difficulties into nutshell perspective, nothing does.

It's not just getting in and getting out..... academics. It's the whole ball of wax that comes with being a STEM school. Everything.



Then turn around and say "That's what I'm talking about, not what each kid is majoring in."


So now you're contradicting your point? So at first you want to qualify GT as the "only STEM school" in the FBS (which is factualy false in the first place) because (in your very own words) "I loosely define STEM school as one that has at least 60% of its degrees granted annually in STEM fields.", but now you're saying (again, in your very own words) "what each kid is majoring in" doesn't matter?

OK, buddy...can't talk to a person if he can't even keep his point straight. I'm finished here.
 
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