Johnson

[first&ten]

I'm a big CPJ fan, but comments like this are a bit ridiculous considering some overlooked facts.

FACT: In the last 18 years, GT has had 2 losing records.
FACT: CPJ is the only coach in the last 18 years to have a losing record (2010 6-7; 2015 3-9)

FACT: GT had the nation's 2nd longest bowl streak at 17 straight bowl games
FACT: GT's bowl streak ended in 2015 under CPJ.

FACT: CPJ has had more double digit win seasons since Bobby Dodd.
FACT: CPJ has played an average of 13.13 games a season. Chan Gailey teams played an average of 12.67 games per season. George O'Leary teams played an average of 11.71 games per season (did not include the 3 games GOL had to coach as the interim HC). Bobby Ross teams played an average of 11.6 games per season. Bobby Dodd teams played an average of 10.77 games per season.

FACT: Since 1995 (20 years), GT has never had a losing record in ACC play.
FACT: 2015 is the first year GT has had a losing record in ACC play since 1995.

FACT: Paul Johnson has played in 3 ACC Championships, and won 1 (2009).
FACT: Every GT HC since Bobby Ross (excluding "he who shall not be named") has either won the ACC Championship or been to the ACC Championship game, and every coach since then excluding Gailey has won an ACC Championship.

FACT: Paul Johnson has a 59.38 win percentage in ACC play.
FACT: George O'Leary had a 62.07 win percentage in ACC play. Chan Gailey had a 58.33 win percentage in ACC play.

There are other pretty interesting facts if you dig into it, but I think the point is made. The gist is, CPJ is a good coach, but GT wasn't exactly struggling before he got here. I'm a big CPJ fan, but let's not make him out to be something he's not.

GT has been a good football program for the last 20+ plus years. In fact, you could say GT has been a model of consistency in terms of being a competitve football team. CPJ didn't exactly have to save us from college football purgatory.

Preach it! maybe the light might shine in!

 

[IEEEWreck]

If you don't think there is an academic hurdle recruiting GT, I can't argue with you. Btw, how many of our academic peers, and I'm talking STEM research institutes, even field division 1 teams much less power 5 teams? I'll tell you, one, Stanford, and they just barely qualify as a STEM peer.

They have to be above 50% of total degrees issued per year are STEM fields to qualify in my book.
http://www.usnews.com/education/blo...universities-that-grant-the-most-stem-degrees

Peer? Pssh. GT's School of Electrical and Computer Engineering graduates more baccalaureate and graduate students than Stanford's entire College of Engineering.

So yeah, you know, they can be peers. Just they achieve those academic standards for a fifth of the student population.

Also, on a related note:
I'm not sure how big a deal the majors thing is. I mean, I would not suggest going to Tech if you wanted to be competitive for getting into a PhD program in English at top tier programs. But that really doesn't describe many football players. I think wanting to have a training and nutrition degree is just a different way of saying you didn't want to do the work for a business degree (in that you were indifferent to what the degree said, but not doing work was important to you).

Sincere apologies to any driven, self actualized nutrition and training majors out there. But again, not sure there are many of those among football players either.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Fact: The ACC is much tougher to win now than it was for Ross and O'leary....it's gotten tougher since Chan also. Last 2 years the ACC has won rivalry week over the SEC. (We sucked this year but the top 3 teams in the ACC might all beat this year's SEC champ)

Fact: GT has been to 2 Orange Bowls since Bobby Dodd retired. Both during CPJ.

FWIW I think O'leary was a great coach, recruited well, and got the most out of the talent he brought in. If we had been smart we'd have brought him back after resume gate. The vast majority of Tech fans disagreed with me about that at the time. Amazes me how he is so much more appreciated now than he was at the time.

 

[33jacket]

Fact: The ACC is much tougher to win now than it was for Ross and O'leary....it's gotten tougher since Chan also. Last 2 years the ACC has won rivalry week over the SEC. (We sucked this year but the top 3 teams in the ACC might all beat this year's SEC champ)

Fact: GT has been to 2 Orange Bowls since Bobby Dodd retired. Both during CPJ.

FWIW I think O'leary was a great coach, recruited well, and got the most out of the talent he brought in. If we had been smart we'd have brought him back after resume gate. The vast majority of Tech fans disagreed with me about that at the time. Amazes me how he is so much more appreciated now than he was at the time.

Not sure about your first line. When GOL was here FSU was on an NCAA historic run. No one could beat them and they set NCAA records left and right in record and finishing in top 3. I would say their strangle hold on the ACC then made it much tougher to win that conference than today. So I am not sure how you can qualify it as fact, vs an opinion.

I do however, agree, it has gotten tougher since Chan for sure..... Also an opinion.

Your second statement is a fact. But I would offer the opinion with the new bowl tie ins and playoffs, ACC sending 2 teams to BCS or major bowls is more frequent, making attending the orange bowl for the "second" ACC team easier, and an option never done in the past or available.

If that option was available in 1998, GT would have been in the orange bowl in 1998 and possibly 2000.

 

[flea77]

How many of those guys would NOT have stayed eligible with today's APR? You don't know any more than I do...APR is a convenient excuse for not recruiting better talent. There is elite talent willing to do the work, and capable of doing the work. We just need to get them.

For instance, a QB like Josh Dobbs (Tennessee's starter), a 4 Star dual threat QB and an Elite 11 QB, that prepped 20 minutes up I-400 LOVED GT's aerospace engineering program wanted to come here for the academics, but GT's offense didn't fit him. You think a talent like that would play in a system like Art Briles or Gus Malzahns that uses the option to complement the vertical passing game? Guys like Dwyer, Nesbitt, Sean Renfree (a commit under Gailey, now an NFL QB), Calvin Johnson, Demaryius Thomas, etc...all got through GT's academics.

The point is, there are enough guys who can get into GT and do the work, and enough top tier guys, that saying "CPJ's system is the only system that will make GT successful" is false. There are plenty of top level recruits that can and will do the work at GT...GT just needs to give those recruits a reason to come here. We're not going to get a line of elite guys lining up to play here, but we can get our fair share, and we have before. I agree recruiting ain't easy, but having CPJ's system makes it harder. I'm saying that as someone who actually likes CPJ's system.

In 2005 the amount who were not eligible w the new rule was 11 ( first year PTD rule 40-60-80 rule ) leading to playing ineligible players and losing scholarships . 17 if you add in the basketball , track and swimming team . I agree that their are guys out there and we need to find them . In order to do that we need the cash to fully fund and Increase our recruiting staff . Some teams we compete against have enough staff that every recruit has a escort ... They could fill our recruit seating section w staff only ...

 

[iceeater1969]

Peer? Pssh. GT's School of Electrical and Computer Engineering graduates more baccalaureate and graduate students than Stanford's entire College of Engineering.

So yeah, you know, they can be peers. Just they achieve those academic standards for a fifth of the student population.

Also, on a related note:
I'm not sure how big a deal the majors thing is. I mean, I would not suggest going to Tech if you wanted to be competitive for getting into a PhD program in English at top tier programs. But that really doesn't describe many football players. I think wanting to have a training and nutrition degree is just a different way of saying you didn't want to do the work for a business degree (in that you were indifferent to what the degree said, but not doing work was important to you).

Sincere apologies to any driven, self actualized nutrition and training majors out there. But again, not sure there are many of those among football players either.

A few years ago Stanford football rooster had 61 out of state players with 4-5 from Atlanta. Their football didtribution matched regular student distribution. The had 5 from the suburbs near Houston.
We do not need to be Stanford.
We do not need to be stanford.
We need to be gt in texas.

 

[Techster]

The issue you're having is comparing Johnson with previous head coaches rather than comparing him to his contemporaries. Every coach has access - though probably not unfettered - to a private plane. And every school has tutors. And if Tech didn't increase the budget for assistants, they'd be hiring high school coaches. Johnson does not have the highest paid assistant in America, and I doubt he'd get the approval for it if he asked, but O'Leary did.

The 97% retention rate now actually supports my earlier point - namely that the quality of student at Tech now is better than it used to be, and the athletes are required to compete with them in class.

Um, are you even reading the links I posted. Roof isn't one of the highest paid assistants in the country (that was BEFORE his raise last summer)? CPJ is his own OC, but you can bet your mortgage GT would poney up for a good OC if CPJ wanted one. Regardless of what some want to believe, GT does have the money to spend, and we're not destitute. GTAA just refuses to throw good money after bad (like paying off coaches because of bad contracts).

The amount of money and resources GTAA has invested in the academic support staff and facilities far exceeds what was available to O'Leary and Gailey. As for the quality of students...can you guess the biggest feeder in school in terms of tranfers into GT is? It use to be schools like GA Southern, Southern Poly, West GA....now it's GA Perimeter College. I'm not disparaging GPC, it's that during my time at GT (which was during the O'Leary and Gailey years), being able to transfer in from a 2 year school was almost unheard of without doing work at a "traditional" 4 year school. That 97% retention has as much to do with all the resources and emphasis GT is placing on keeping kids at Tech as opposed to being proud of "weeding" them out. Again, if you would have read the link, you would have seen all the resources GT has invested in keeping the ones they let in from failing out. Half the programs they listed weren't even an idea back in the late 90's and early 2000's. I'm not saying GT is easier today than it was back then...it's just GT is more cognizant of keeping freshmen in school, and the idea of "look to the left, look to the right" is proudly chest thumped by older alumnus such as myself and others on this board as opposed to the "younger" GT grads

You can say the quality of students today is better, but are they really? You can point to test scores being higher, but how many times have they "re-centered" the SATs since the 1990's? How PC has academics overall become that teachers are afraid of failing high school students and college student?

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it

http://www.gradeinflation.com/ (This is an interesting study, as GT is one of the schools being studied).

http://www.gradeinflation.com/Georgiatech.html

Now look at this chart:

http://factbook.gatech.edu/academic-information/graduation-and-retention-rates-tables-5-11-5-12/

Have you noticed that the rise in percentage each year parallels the third link above, as well as GT's emphasis on keeping the students they accept in school and their investment in programs and staff to help students succeed at Ma Tech?

 

[Techster]

In 2005 the amount who were not eligible w the new rule was 11 ( first year PTD rule 40-60-80 rule ) leading to playing ineligible players and losing scholarships . 17 if you add in the basketball , track and swimming team . I agree that their are guys out there and we need to find them . In order to do that we need the cash to fully fund and Increase our recruiting staff . Some teams we compete against have enough staff that every recruit has a escort ... They could fill our recruit seating section w staff only ...

I don't disagree that academics were a problem back during the Gailey and O'Leary years in terms of SA performance in the classroom. My point is, with the amount of support our SAs get today, and the investment the GTAA has made in increasing resources for SAs to help them in the classroom, the situation that occurred during the O'Leary and Gailey years would not have happened. You would know better than myself as you have two family members going through the GT athletic and academic system now, but as I've heard mentioned many times by former SAs who return to GT to finish their degree, the academic resources now blows away anything they had back then.

If you look at the performance of our football players in the classroom under CPJ, it's a fairly good representation of what's going at GT overall. The administration, both on the athletic and academic sides, are finally investing in programs and resources to help the students in the general population as well as the SAs. In turn, we're seeing better retention and graduation rates from the general student population and the SAs.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Um, are you even reading the links I posted. Roof isn't one of the highest paid assistants in the country (that was BEFORE his raise last summer)? CPJ is his own OC, but you can bet your mortgage GT would poney up for a good OC if CPJ wanted one. Regardless of what some want to believe, GT does have the money to spend, and we're not destitute. GTAA just refuses to throw good money after bad (like paying off coaches because of bad contracts).

The amount of money and resources GTAA has invested in the academic support staff and facilities far exceeds what was available to O'Leary and Gailey. As for the quality of students...can you guess the biggest feeder in school in terms of tranfers into GT is? It use to be schools like GA Southern, Southern Poly, West GA....now it's GA Perimeter College. I'm not disparaging GPC, it's that during my time at GT (which was during the O'Leary and Gailey years), being able to transfer in from a 2 year school was almost unheard of without doing work at a "traditional" 4 year school. That 97% retention has as much to do with all the resources and emphasis GT is placing on keeping kids at Tech as opposed to being proud of "weeding" them out. Again, if you would have read the link, you would have seen all the resources GT has invested in keeping the ones they let in from failing out. Half the programs they listed weren't even an idea back in the late 90's and early 2000's. I'm not saying GT is easier today than it was back then...it's just GT is more cognizant of keeping freshmen in school, and the idea of "look to the left, look to the right" is proudly chest thumped by older alumnus such as myself and others on this board as opposed to the "younger" GT grads

You can say the quality of students today is better, but are they really? You can point to test scores being higher, but how many times have they "re-centered" the SATs since the 1990's? How PC has academics overall become that teachers are afraid of failing high school students and college student?

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it

http://www.gradeinflation.com/ (This is an interesting study, as GT is one of the schools being studied).

http://www.gradeinflation.com/Georgiatech.html

Now look at this chart:

http://factbook.gatech.edu/academic-information/graduation-and-retention-rates-tables-5-11-5-12/

Have you noticed that the rise in percentage each year parallels the third link above, as well as GT's emphasis on keeping the students they accept in school and their investment in programs and staff to help students succeed at Ma Tech?

I don't see how any of this makes it any easier to recruit than back in my/your day. All I know is football players can no longer take remedial courses for multiple years in order to stay eligible. (Heck, they can't even do it for one semester.) In the Ross/OLeary years, they could.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I don't disagree that academics were a problem back during the Gailey and O'Leary years in terms of SA performance in the classroom. My point is, with the amount of support our SAs get today, and the investment the GTAA has made in increasing resources for SAs to help them in the classroom, the situation that occurred during the O'Leary and Gailey years would not have happened. You would know better than myself as you have two family members going through the GT athletic and academic system now, but as I've heard mentioned many times by former SAs who return to GT to finish their degree, the academic resources now blows away anything they had back then.

If you look at the performance of our football players in the classroom under CPJ, it's a fairly good representation of what's going at GT overall. The administration, both on the athletic and academic sides, are finally investing in programs and resources to help the students in the general population as well as the SAs. In turn, we're seeing better retention and graduation rates from the general student population and the SAs.

How many on Clemson's roster would be able to stay eligible at GT with our new and improved student support system? I know it's only speculative, but I'd wager very few, especially the marquee guys. And that's if they even had the desire to try.

 

[JorgeJonas]

Um, are you even reading the links I posted. Roof isn't one of the highest paid assistants in the country (that was BEFORE his raise last summer)? CPJ is his own OC, but you can bet your mortgage GT would poney up for a good OC if CPJ wanted one. Regardless of what some want to believe, GT does have the money to spend, and we're not destitute. GTAA just refuses to throw good money after bad (like paying off coaches because of bad contracts).

The amount of money and resources GTAA has invested in the academic support staff and facilities far exceeds what was available to O'Leary and Gailey. As for the quality of students...can you guess the biggest feeder in school in terms of tranfers into GT is? It use to be schools like GA Southern, Southern Poly, West GA....now it's GA Perimeter College. I'm not disparaging GPC, it's that during my time at GT (which was during the O'Leary and Gailey years), being able to transfer in from a 2 year school was almost unheard of without doing work at a "traditional" 4 year school. That 97% retention has as much to do with all the resources and emphasis GT is placing on keeping kids at Tech as opposed to being proud of "weeding" them out. Again, if you would have read the link, you would have seen all the resources GT has invested in keeping the ones they let in from failing out. Half the programs they listed weren't even an idea back in the late 90's and early 2000's. I'm not saying GT is easier today than it was back then...it's just GT is more cognizant of keeping freshmen in school, and the idea of "look to the left, look to the right" is proudly chest thumped by older alumnus such as myself and others on this board as opposed to the "younger" GT grads

You can say the quality of students today is better, but are they really? You can point to test scores being higher, but how many times have they "re-centered" the SATs since the 1990's? How PC has academics overall become that teachers are afraid of failing high school students and college student?

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it

http://www.gradeinflation.com/ (This is an interesting study, as GT is one of the schools being studied).

http://www.gradeinflation.com/Georgiatech.html

Now look at this chart:

http://factbook.gatech.edu/academic-information/graduation-and-retention-rates-tables-5-11-5-12/

Have you noticed that the rise in percentage each year parallels the third link above, as well as GT's emphasis on keeping the students they accept in school and their investment in programs and staff to help students succeed at Ma Tech?

Okay, so a couple of things. I know Roof isn't one of the highest paid coordinators in the country, and that's my point. Friedgen was. As for Johnson being his own OC, I'm sure the school would pay for an OC, though we can only speculate on how much. The issue is that there is a cap on the number of on-field coaches a team can have. So, if we need an OC, it means we're going to lose a coach somewhere else. This is a zero sum game.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Okay, so a couple of things. I know Roof isn't one of the highest paid coordinators in the country, and that's my point. Friedgen was. As for Johnson being his own OC, I'm sure the school would pay for an OC, though we can only speculate on how much. The issue is that there is a cap on the number of on-field coaches a team can have. So, if we need an OC, it means we're going to lose a coach somewhere else. This is a zero sum game.

Right, add an OC and you can forget about getting a second OL coach.

 

[Bogey]

I think fritz option way easier to recruit to than ours due to more modern look. They also run alot of zone easier on ol and transition to nfl.

I also think when we get ours right its harder to defend, but its also harder for us to get right it seems

I agree with every thought in this post.

 

[iceeater1969]

Right, add an OC and you can forget about getting a second OL coach.

Perhaps the oc could help the ol coach, when he and the head coach are not discussing how the defenses are getting muliple defenders to the edge. Perhaps he could help the ab and bb coach with some keys to pick up. The oc could talk with the qb and wr coaches about a set of end game comeback no huddle pass plays with actual pass routes. Perhaps could be an extra set of eyes during practice and games to SEE IF WE HAVE TELLS OR DEFENSE HAS OVER SHIFTED

Nevermind our plan is we have the head coach do all of that and call the plays and then coach up the players after plays'

I would hope we get a good young oc like the Kennesaw state guy so we can have some alternate to the one GUY do it all method.

But I like coach and am good with anything in 16 IF IT IS FIXED.
The team played hard from toe meets leather till final whistle.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Perhaps the oc could help the ol coach, when he and the head coach are not discussing how the defenses are getting muliple defenders to the edge. Perhaps he could help the ab and bb coach with some keys to pick up. The oc could talk with the qb and wr coaches about a set of end game comeback no huddle pass plays with actual pass routes. Perhaps could be an extra set of eyes during practice and games to SEE IF WE HAVE TELLS OR DEFENSE HAS OVER SHIFTED

Nevermind our plan is we have the head coach do all of that and call the plays and then coach up the players after plays'

I would hope we get a good young oc like the Kennesaw state guy so we can have some alternate to the one GUY do it all method.

But I like coach and am good with anything in 16 IF IT IS FIXED.
The team played hard from toe meets leather till final whistle.

Fixing Aback, Bback and wr will go a looooooooooong way in fixing the OL.

 

[Frenchise]

I think the only really valid criticism of CPJ is his assistants. I think he's way too chummy with Speed and Sewak.

 

[okiemon]

Iowa State, Rutgers, UCF, Tulane, Texas State, Syracuse, University of Texas San Antonio.

Not Iowa State or Syracuse. They have higher aspirations. UCF and Rutgers may as well.

 

[Techster]

How many on Clemson's roster would be able to stay eligible at GT with our new and improved student support system? I know it's only speculative, but I'd wager very few, especially the marquee guys. And that's if they even had the desire to try.

Well, we know THE main guy, QB Deshaun Watson (one of his first offers in fact...another "The triple option is not for me" QB) and their starting RB Wayne Gallman would have...GT recruited both of them but both did not like CPJ's offense. We also know CPJ heavily recruited RB Adam Choice (Tashard Choice's cousin) but he also did not like CPJ's offense. He would have played a large role this year had he not been injured.

Again...another example of GT fans trying to make academics a bigger issue than it is.

 

[okiemon]

Again...another example of GT fans trying to make academics a bigger issue than it is.

Glad to see someone else saying that. We love to make excuses, don't we?

 

[Techster]

I don't see how any of this makes it any easier to recruit than back in my/your day. All I know is football players can no longer take remedial courses for multiple years in order to stay eligible. (Heck, they can't even do it for one semester.) In the Ross/OLeary years, they could.

Is it really harder to recruit these days? Think about it.

1. The population in the South has EXPLODED...which means there are more HS playing football, and there are more high level recruits. The South is where 90+/- percent of our recruits come from, and the metro Atlanta area in particular is a gold mine for recruits.

2. With the internet, and readily accessible film on recruits, it's easier to identify recruits back when O'Leary and Gailey were head coaches. Recruiting services have exploded, which means recruit database has expanded. No longer are coaches having to spend their time driving around filtering kids when all they need to do is cue up the tape on their computers.

3. Kids today are better prepared for college in terms of knowing what it takes to get an athletic scholarship, and HS kids also have more educational resources with the internet and accessible computers. This makes the pool of potential GT SAs larger along with my first point.

4. With the advent of social media, coaches can keep tabs on recruits like never before...and they can make sure recruits are taking courses and making the grades they need to get into GT. It also makes it easier for our staff to find highly qualified kids to come to GT.

Just those 4 points alone gives CPJ and his staff a HUGE advantage over previous staffs.

I'm not minimizing academics and the rigor of courses at GT. Simply put, the pool of qualified kids both academically and athletically is far greater than what previous staffs had. It's up to CPJ and his staff to close...and as the 2014 class proves, there are kids out there that fit bill for us to sign.