Article Jackets wrap up brutal stretch Saturday in Tallahassee

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Jackets wrap up brutal stretch Saturday in Tallahassee

AD Gueye has notched 10+ points in 5 consecutive ACC games played (photo courtesy of FloridaToday.com

Georgia Tech wraps up a tough 8 game run against Florida State Saturday at Noon

The ACC is a treacherous beast at times. For instance, a young Notre Dame squad just had a Saturday-Monday turn around. While both games were at home, they were against arguably the two best teams in the nation, Duke and Virginia. The Irish lost both games by more than 20 points.

The Yellow Jackets aren’t in the middle of a quick turn around such as that, but they are set to wrap up a tough 8 game stretch on Saturday with a trip to Tallahassee. Since January 9th, the Jackets have played four games against top 15 Kenpom teams, while 3 of the other 4 are top 45 teams. Notre Dame was the outlier at #94.

Saturday’s opponent, Florida State, has the reputation as an underachiever halfway through the ACC slate while ranking #26 by Pomeroy’s metrics. The Seminoles have seemingly righted the ship lately with wins at home against Clemson and on the road in Coral Gables after a three game losing streak. They sit at 15-5 (3-4) and just ahead of the Jackets in the ACC standings.

Florida State is led by longtime ACC head coach Leonard Hamilton who is in his 17th season as the Seminoles’ head man. He also led Miami for 10 seasons in the 90’s when the ‘Canes were part of the Big East. His record at FSU is 342-213 (138-137), but in the past four seasons is 84-40 (32-27) with three postseason births, including an elite eight run last season with almost the exact same roster as this year. Since 2008-09 he has only finished outside the top 6 in the league four times. While he may be the epitome of mediocrity in the ACC, there is something to be said for being consistently competitive in the toughest basketball league in the country.

Unlike most teams in the league, FSU is a “sum of its parts” team instead of being led by one particular star. If I were to choose a player most important to their success, it would be their sixth man Fi Kabengele. The nephew of NBA Hall of Fame Center Dikembe Mutombo has been the lighthouse for FSU during league play, averaging 15.3 points and and 6.4 rebounds off the bench in just 21.3 minutes per game. While Phil Cofer has dealt with a lingering foot injury, Kabengele has seemingly taken over as the leader of this team on the court.

Terance Mann (17 ppg in 3 games against GT) and Trent Forrest make up Hamilton’s starting back court and while both are talented, neither is a true point guard. On the season FSU is 244th in the nation in turnover percentage at 19.8%. They have tightened it up in league play a bit, bringing that number down to 17.6%, but that is still just middle of the pack in the ACC. Their turnover problems were somewhat acceptable during the out of conference because they were turning their opponents over at nearly 23%, but in league play that number has also fallen to mirror their own number at 17.6%.

Florida State’s biggest assets are their length and athleticism combined with their depth. As mentioned before, their leading scorer comes off the bench. That is mostly due to Kabengele’s inability to stay out of foul trouble (5.9 fouls per 40) as well as having a 7’4″ behemoth at starting center, JM Christ Koumadje. JMCK, now a senior, only plays 16 minutes per game but has an incredible impact in the paint while on the court. His per 40 stats are 15-12-4 blocks.

Depth on the wing is not a concern for Hamilton, who has a plethora of capable players, some excelling offensively and others locking down on defense. Former McDonald’s All American MJ Walker is still trying to figure it out in his sophomore season that was impacted early on by a leg injury, but the 6’5″ scorer is coming off of his best game of the season, scoring 22 points (6-7 from deep) against Miami on the road. PJ Savoy is also still in Tallahassee and still hunting his shot like Adam Greentree hunts Elk.

Defensively, David Nichols, a transfer from Albany, is relentless on the ball and gives maximum effort. 6’5″ Devin Vassell also gives quality defensive minutes off the bench as one of the best freshman defenders in a league this year.

Cofer, who led the team in scoring last season, missed most of the out of conference slate with a foot injury. Since his return in late December he has not been as effective, averaging just 8.4 points and 3 rebounds and notching double figures only twice in 8 games. He sat a couple of recent games due to the injury before returning for the Miami game where he scored 4 points in 19 minutes.

Perhaps the most concerning statistic for this game is Florida State’s ability to rebound the ball on the offensive glass. The Seminoles are 20th in the nation at 35.6% in offensive rebounding, while Georgia Tech ranks 283rd in the nation and 13th in the ACC in giving up second chances. The interesting thing here is that Georgia Tech just held the fourth best team in the league in offensive rebounding (UNC) to just 5 OR’s for the game on Tuesday. Yet another feast or famine statistic when it comes to the Yellow Jackets.

During the Josh Pastner era the Jackets have split the series with FSU 1-1, with each home team collecting a win. Dating back to the 2010-11 season however, Georgia Tech is 2-6 against the ‘Noles with a 1-3 record in Tallahassee. That singular win came in February 2016. The Seminoles are also an impressive 51-7 in home games dating back to the 2015-16 season.

All in all, it doesn’t look great for the good guys in this one, but after the first 25 minutes of the Duke game, who knows? FSU has not looked great since Cam Reddish hit that triple in Tallahassee, and their wins over Miami and Clemson don’t look as good as the losses to Pitt and Boston College look bad. Kenpom has the game at 71-61 FSU, while Haslam has it at 71-58 FSU. I think it is too many points in both instances. I like the Jackets to cover, but Tallahassee is a tough place to play. I think this will be a squeaker.

 

 
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THWG

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Um what? First off people aren't pointing to Okogie because of what he is doing in the NBA. He was a great defender here last year and scored 18 a game. Second, he would solve one of our biggest issues in not having a go to guy, and his 38% from 3 would also help. But yeah, we'd lose what Alston gives us.... lol.

I don't think you realize how good he was for us last year.
With Okogie we easily have 16 wins right now.
 

YlJacket

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Um what? First off people aren't pointing to Okogie because of what he is doing in the NBA. He was a great defender here last year and scored 18 a game. Second, he would solve one of our biggest issues in not having a go to guy, and his 38% from 3 would also help. But yeah, we'd lose what Alston gives us.... lol.

I don't think you realize how good he was for us last year.

Just sliding Jose and Devoe down from "the man" to "just help out" would be huge. Yesterday we had no one with any type of confidence in their offensive ability. You put Okogie as a lead dog out there with his 18 points and I would be more than happy to bury Haywood on the bench and have defenses geared to stopping Okogie with lots of really open shots for Jose and Devoe. My bet is they make more than the 2 for 200 nonsense they have done recently.
 

slugboy

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With Okogie we easily have 16 wins right now.

I’m thinking maybe 14. Gardner Webb, VT, and one more. Maybe St Johns?

A good number of our losses are by double digits. Okogie improves us, but one player improving us by a net double digit margin?

We lost to Georgia by 11, UT by 13, Northwestern by 8, Clemson by 12, Louisville by 28, Duke by 13, UNC by 23, and FSU by 10. Some of those could easily have been worse, and a good coach and team can take away one of your players with a good game plan.

I’m sorry my comment took us off track here, but 1) maybe we’re a bubble team with Okogie, 2) more realistically we’re back in the NIT, and 3) I think it’s just denying where we are as a team. We had Lammers and Okogie the year before, and they couldn’t overcome the lack of Alvarado and Haywood from injury. He’s not going to overcome everything.


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THWG

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I’m thinking maybe 14. Gardner Webb, VT, and one more. Maybe St Johns?

A good number of our losses are by double digits. Okogie improves us, but one player improving us by a net double digit margin?

We lost to Georgia by 11, UT by 13, Northwestern by 8, Clemson by 12, Louisville by 28, Duke by 13, UNC by 23, and FSU by 10. Some of those could easily have been worse, and a good coach and team can take away one of your players with a good game plan.

I’m sorry my comment took us off track here, but 1) maybe we’re a bubble team with Okogie, 2) more realistically we’re back in the NIT, and 3) I think it’s just denying where we are as a team. We had Lammers and Okogie the year before, and they couldn’t overcome the lack of Alvarado and Haywood from injury. He’s not going to overcome everything.


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Okogie gives us 18 ppg this year, if not 20. That cures a lot of wrongs with this team. He would make it 5 starters averaging double digits and our bench would instantly get deeper. I mean a bench rotation of Moore, Haywood, and Cole actually sounds pretty good in addition to a starting lineup of Banks, AD, Okogie, Alvarado, and Devoe. With Okogie, we beat FSU, Georgia, and Northwestern.
 

lv20gt

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I’m thinking maybe 14. Gardner Webb, VT, and one more. Maybe St Johns?

A good number of our losses are by double digits. Okogie improves us, but one player improving us by a net double digit margin?

Yes. An experienced, 18 point a game scorer, great defender, and rebounder, would be a net double digit increase for us, especially since one of our biggest problems this year is having no go to guy to help take back momentum/extend leads. On top of that Okogie had a great ability to drive and draw fouls, which he led the ACC in last year, which isn't something you can just scheme against.

Yes one guy can make that big a difference.
 

GTHomer

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Yes. An experienced, 18 point a game scorer, great defender, and rebounder, would be a net double digit increase for us, especially since one of our biggest problems this year is having no go to guy to help take back momentum/extend leads. On top of that Okogie had a great ability to drive and draw fouls, which he led the ACC in last year, which isn't something you can just scheme against.

Yes one guy can make that big a difference.

Though a different sport, Louisville lost Lamar Jackson and their coach got fired the next season. I don't think we will fire CJP because of the loss of Okogie.
 

slugboy

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Yes. An experienced, 18 point a game scorer, great defender, and rebounder, would be a net double digit increase for us, especially since one of our biggest problems this year is having no go to guy to help take back momentum/extend leads. On top of that Okogie had a great ability to drive and draw fouls, which he led the ACC in last year, which isn't something you can just scheme against.

Yes one guy can make that big a difference.

Okogie’s box plus minus from last season was 6.8. Our top 5 this year in descending order are Banks (7.5), Haywood, Alvarado, Gueye, and Devoe (3.6). If we replaced Devoe with Okogie, you’d expect a net 3.2 additional points per game. That’s offense, defense, rebounding, everything.

By the way, Four of Louisville’s top five players have a better BPM than that.

Now, if your argument was that we’d play better lineups if we had Okogie, we’ve got the ability to play better lineups now.



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GTJake

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With Okogie we easily have 16 wins right now.

Sorry to say, but it's getting very hard to watch this team, if it were just a youth problem, IMO, halfway through the ACC season we should be seeing some improvement.
I just don't get the "get old stay old" concept, I agree with this Okogie statement, so if your best player is going to declare for the NBA draft before his eligibility is up, what does it matter if he comes in as a 3* or 5* recruit ??
And how do you stay old if they are gone before they get old ??
Recruit-Recruit-Recruit !!!
 

slugboy

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Box plus minus? You have got to be kidding me....
It has the advantage of being objective. Sure, we'd be better with Okogie, but I think people are vastly overestimating the difference he'd make in our record. I think we would have lost to Clemson by fewer points.

We had Okogie and Lammers last year, and the "reasons" we had a poor season was that Alvarado and Haywood went out with injuries. Now this year, Haywood is a "bench player" and the reason our record is suffering is that Okogie left early. In all the what-if analyses, the most impactful players are always the ones that are missing.

In Louisville, they had a program implosion occur, and they're back playing as one of the better teams in the conference this year. They had 3 players go into the draft (2 got drafted), 8 total players leave, and they annihilated (28 points) us head to head. But our player departures are more impactful.
 

684Bee

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It has the advantage of being objective. Sure, we'd be better with Okogie, but I think people are vastly overestimating the difference he'd make in our record. I think we would have lost to Clemson by fewer points.

We had Okogie and Lammers last year, and the "reasons" we had a poor season was that Alvarado and Haywood went out with injuries. Now this year, Haywood is a "bench player" and the reason our record is suffering is that Okogie left early. In all the what-if analyses, the most impactful players are always the ones that are missing.

In Louisville, they had a program implosion occur, and they're back playing as one of the better teams in the conference this year. They had 3 players go into the draft (2 got drafted), 8 total players leave, and they annihilated (28 points) us head to head. But our player departures are more impactful.

We’d have at least 3 more wins, easily. Probably 4.
 

gte447f

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Okogie’s box plus minus from last season was 6.8. Our top 5 this year in descending order are Banks (7.5), Haywood, Alvarado, Gueye, and Devoe (3.6). If we replaced Devoe with Okogie, you’d expect a net 3.2 additional points per game. That’s offense, defense, rebounding, everything.

Advanced statistics be damned, if you believe that Haywood is the second most valuable contributor on the team, that's insane. If Okogie was going to replace anyone of the 5 you named, it would (should) be Haywood and not Devoe. Haywood plays the passing lanes pretty well on defense, usually resulting in several steals per game; other than that, his on ball defense is average or weaker; his rebounding is average; it could be good because of his length, but he is a lazy rebounder so it isn't good; and like it or not, he isn't a threat to score. As far as scoring goes, he can only be viewed as a streaky 3 point shooter who could go off and hurt opponents if he gets hot and is left open, but is more likely to be easily kept in check by opponents. Personally, I don't think he is a ACC starter material, but he could be much better than he has shown this season. He could be a strong role player to 6th man award level player if he could get his head right and if he and the coaches could understand how to use his skills in the game. He has to expand his useful skill set to include rebounding and scoring 2 pointers and foul shots off the dribble, because is not proving to be the reliable spot up 3 point shooter that he was billed to be.
 

gte447f

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We had Okogie and Lammers last year, and the "reasons" we had a poor season was that Alvarado and Haywood went out with injuries. Now this year, Haywood is a "bench player" and the reason our record is suffering is that Okogie left early. In all the what-if analyses, the most impactful players are always the ones that are missing.

No, those are only the reasons that folks on here gave. The real reason was that Lammers was largely ineffective last year, he wasn't as strong a rim protector presence or low post scoring option as he had been the season before, probably at least partly due to his ankle injury, and his high post effectiveness was impacted by his one dimensionality, so he wasn't as effective there either. Of course we missed Alvarado badly at the point, as was evidenced in how poorly Okogie tried to cover for him, until Tadric Jackson took over point and did a decent job (I can't remember which game this was). Haywood's contribution or lack there of due to injury last season was a non-factor, as you are seeing with him on the court this year.
 

gte447f

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And it took until late in the season to realize that AD and Lammers could play together and both be better for it, just like this year with Banks and AD. I heard the announcers say during the FSU game that Banks and AD had only played together for something like 6.5 minutes before ACC play started. This was mostly because AD didn't get much playing time period before ACC play started. Now he is obviously our most reliable scorer. The funny thing is, he had already proven himself by the end of last season, so I don't understand why he seemed to have to start over with the coaches to get into the lineup this year.
 

lv20gt

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We had Okogie and Lammers last year, and the "reasons" we had a poor season was that Alvarado and Haywood went out with injuries. Now this year, Haywood is a "bench player" and the reason our record is suffering is that Okogie left early. In all the what-if analyses, the most impactful players are always the ones that are missing.

You're just making stuff up now. The reason we struggled last year was because we had a hobbled Lammers, a freshman PG, little depth that was made worse with the injuries, and not enough overall shooting talent in general. Nobody was blaming the poor season exclusively on missing those two or even claiming they were the two biggest factors. Losing those two just exacerbated other problems we had. Even so last year Okogie was the most impactful player anyways.

This year our team struggles with a lack of upperclassman leadership, a lack of a real go to guy, consistent scoring, and outside shooting. An 18 point per game 3 year starter who led the league in FTA, and shot 38% from the floor checks all those boxes. We'd still have some problems even with Okogie, but at the very least he'd give us another consistent scoring option even when the 3s aren't dropping.

The idea that he is only worth 3-5 points when added to this team is absurd.
 

AE 87

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And it took until late in the season to realize that AD and Lammers could play together and both be better for it, just like this year with Banks and AD. I heard the announcers say during the FSU game that Banks and AD had only played together for something like 6.5 minutes before ACC play started. This was mostly because AD didn't get much playing time period before ACC play started. Now he is obviously our most reliable scorer. The funny thing is, he had already proven himself by the end of last season, so I don't understand why he seemed to have to start over with the coaches to get into the lineup this year.
They prepared to rely on AD at the 5 and 4 out. When Banks won that spot, it limited AD min. They started playing together with Off philosophy change.
 

gte447f

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They prepared to rely on AD at the 5 and 4 out. When Banks won that spot, it limited AD min. They started playing together with Off philosophy change.

I see where you are coming from, but instead of deciding that Banks had won the 5 spot, basically benching AD, and continuing on with the 4 out, live by the 3 die by the 3 plan, I would have rather seen:

1) at least some more rotation between Banks and AD at the 5 since Banks has been sort of inconsistent and up and down from game to game, and has looked tired late in games when playing 35 plus minutes, or

2) preferably an immediate move away from a perimeter, spread the floor oriented offense to a double post offense, since we already new AD could play effectively in the post from the way he came on last season.
 
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