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Article Jackets wrap up brutal stretch Saturday in Tallahassee

Discussion in 'Georgia Tech Basketball' started by Peacone36, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. THWG

    THWG Helluva Engineer

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    With Okogie we easily have 16 wins right now.
     
  2. YlJacket

    YlJacket Helluva Engineer

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    Just sliding Jose and Devoe down from "the man" to "just help out" would be huge. Yesterday we had no one with any type of confidence in their offensive ability. You put Okogie as a lead dog out there with his 18 points and I would be more than happy to bury Haywood on the bench and have defenses geared to stopping Okogie with lots of really open shots for Jose and Devoe. My bet is they make more than the 2 for 200 nonsense they have done recently.
     
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  3. slugboy

    slugboy Moderator Staff Member

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    I’m thinking maybe 14. Gardner Webb, VT, and one more. Maybe St Johns?

    A good number of our losses are by double digits. Okogie improves us, but one player improving us by a net double digit margin?

    We lost to Georgia by 11, UT by 13, Northwestern by 8, Clemson by 12, Louisville by 28, Duke by 13, UNC by 23, and FSU by 10. Some of those could easily have been worse, and a good coach and team can take away one of your players with a good game plan.

    I’m sorry my comment took us off track here, but 1) maybe we’re a bubble team with Okogie, 2) more realistically we’re back in the NIT, and 3) I think it’s just denying where we are as a team. We had Lammers and Okogie the year before, and they couldn’t overcome the lack of Alvarado and Haywood from injury. He’s not going to overcome everything.


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  4. THWG

    THWG Helluva Engineer

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    Okogie gives us 18 ppg this year, if not 20. That cures a lot of wrongs with this team. He would make it 5 starters averaging double digits and our bench would instantly get deeper. I mean a bench rotation of Moore, Haywood, and Cole actually sounds pretty good in addition to a starting lineup of Banks, AD, Okogie, Alvarado, and Devoe. With Okogie, we beat FSU, Georgia, and Northwestern.
     
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  5. lv20gt

    lv20gt Helluva Engineer

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    Yes. An experienced, 18 point a game scorer, great defender, and rebounder, would be a net double digit increase for us, especially since one of our biggest problems this year is having no go to guy to help take back momentum/extend leads. On top of that Okogie had a great ability to drive and draw fouls, which he led the ACC in last year, which isn't something you can just scheme against.

    Yes one guy can make that big a difference.
     
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  6. GTHomer

    GTHomer Helluva Engineer

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    Though a different sport, Louisville lost Lamar Jackson and their coach got fired the next season. I don't think we will fire CJP because of the loss of Okogie.
     
  7. slugboy

    slugboy Moderator Staff Member

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    Okogie’s box plus minus from last season was 6.8. Our top 5 this year in descending order are Banks (7.5), Haywood, Alvarado, Gueye, and Devoe (3.6). If we replaced Devoe with Okogie, you’d expect a net 3.2 additional points per game. That’s offense, defense, rebounding, everything.

    By the way, Four of Louisville’s top five players have a better BPM than that.

    Now, if your argument was that we’d play better lineups if we had Okogie, we’ve got the ability to play better lineups now.



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  8. lv20gt

    lv20gt Helluva Engineer

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    Box plus minus? You have got to be kidding me....
     
  9. GTJake

    GTJake Helluva Engineer

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    Sorry to say, but it's getting very hard to watch this team, if it were just a youth problem, IMO, halfway through the ACC season we should be seeing some improvement.
    I just don't get the "get old stay old" concept, I agree with this Okogie statement, so if your best player is going to declare for the NBA draft before his eligibility is up, what does it matter if he comes in as a 3* or 5* recruit ??
    And how do you stay old if they are gone before they get old ??
    Recruit-Recruit-Recruit !!!
     
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  10. slugboy

    slugboy Moderator Staff Member

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    It has the advantage of being objective. Sure, we'd be better with Okogie, but I think people are vastly overestimating the difference he'd make in our record. I think we would have lost to Clemson by fewer points.

    We had Okogie and Lammers last year, and the "reasons" we had a poor season was that Alvarado and Haywood went out with injuries. Now this year, Haywood is a "bench player" and the reason our record is suffering is that Okogie left early. In all the what-if analyses, the most impactful players are always the ones that are missing.

    In Louisville, they had a program implosion occur, and they're back playing as one of the better teams in the conference this year. They had 3 players go into the draft (2 got drafted), 8 total players leave, and they annihilated (28 points) us head to head. But our player departures are more impactful.
     
  11. 684Bee

    684Bee Helluva Engineer

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    We’d have at least 3 more wins, easily. Probably 4.
     
  12. gte447f

    gte447f Ramblin' Wreck

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    Advanced statistics be damned, if you believe that Haywood is the second most valuable contributor on the team, that's insane. If Okogie was going to replace anyone of the 5 you named, it would (should) be Haywood and not Devoe. Haywood plays the passing lanes pretty well on defense, usually resulting in several steals per game; other than that, his on ball defense is average or weaker; his rebounding is average; it could be good because of his length, but he is a lazy rebounder so it isn't good; and like it or not, he isn't a threat to score. As far as scoring goes, he can only be viewed as a streaky 3 point shooter who could go off and hurt opponents if he gets hot and is left open, but is more likely to be easily kept in check by opponents. Personally, I don't think he is a ACC starter material, but he could be much better than he has shown this season. He could be a strong role player to 6th man award level player if he could get his head right and if he and the coaches could understand how to use his skills in the game. He has to expand his useful skill set to include rebounding and scoring 2 pointers and foul shots off the dribble, because is not proving to be the reliable spot up 3 point shooter that he was billed to be.
     
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  13. gte447f

    gte447f Ramblin' Wreck

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    No, those are only the reasons that folks on here gave. The real reason was that Lammers was largely ineffective last year, he wasn't as strong a rim protector presence or low post scoring option as he had been the season before, probably at least partly due to his ankle injury, and his high post effectiveness was impacted by his one dimensionality, so he wasn't as effective there either. Of course we missed Alvarado badly at the point, as was evidenced in how poorly Okogie tried to cover for him, until Tadric Jackson took over point and did a decent job (I can't remember which game this was). Haywood's contribution or lack there of due to injury last season was a non-factor, as you are seeing with him on the court this year.
     
  14. gte447f

    gte447f Ramblin' Wreck

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    And it took until late in the season to realize that AD and Lammers could play together and both be better for it, just like this year with Banks and AD. I heard the announcers say during the FSU game that Banks and AD had only played together for something like 6.5 minutes before ACC play started. This was mostly because AD didn't get much playing time period before ACC play started. Now he is obviously our most reliable scorer. The funny thing is, he had already proven himself by the end of last season, so I don't understand why he seemed to have to start over with the coaches to get into the lineup this year.
     
  15. lv20gt

    lv20gt Helluva Engineer

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    You're just making stuff up now. The reason we struggled last year was because we had a hobbled Lammers, a freshman PG, little depth that was made worse with the injuries, and not enough overall shooting talent in general. Nobody was blaming the poor season exclusively on missing those two or even claiming they were the two biggest factors. Losing those two just exacerbated other problems we had. Even so last year Okogie was the most impactful player anyways.

    This year our team struggles with a lack of upperclassman leadership, a lack of a real go to guy, consistent scoring, and outside shooting. An 18 point per game 3 year starter who led the league in FTA, and shot 38% from the floor checks all those boxes. We'd still have some problems even with Okogie, but at the very least he'd give us another consistent scoring option even when the 3s aren't dropping.

    The idea that he is only worth 3-5 points when added to this team is absurd.
     
  16. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    They prepared to rely on AD at the 5 and 4 out. When Banks won that spot, it limited AD min. They started playing together with Off philosophy change.
     
  17. gte447f

    gte447f Ramblin' Wreck

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    I see where you are coming from, but instead of deciding that Banks had won the 5 spot, basically benching AD, and continuing on with the 4 out, live by the 3 die by the 3 plan, I would have rather seen:

    1) at least some more rotation between Banks and AD at the 5 since Banks has been sort of inconsistent and up and down from game to game, and has looked tired late in games when playing 35 plus minutes, or

    2) preferably an immediate move away from a perimeter, spread the floor oriented offense to a double post offense, since we already new AD could play effectively in the post from the way he came on last season.
     

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