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Article Jackets Host ECU on Friday

Discussion in 'Georgia Tech Basketball' started by Peacone36, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. YlJacket

    YlJacket Helluva Engineer

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    I was actually trying to stay away from height/length in my question. Just for the issues outlined. Just curious where you thought Moore was with the "basics". Not to be snarky but I already knew Moses was longer :p If Moore has the same level of what I consider pure athleticism then I can see the 2 of them being a really good defensive combination - which could be played if Devoe and Haywood become solid ACC level scorers.
     
  2. MtnWasp

    MtnWasp Jolly Good Fellow

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    From watching all three games thus far, as well as the exhibition, I believe this last game is one where I am seeing a glimpse of what Pastner has envisioned for his offense. In the first two years, we have been pretty structured, with predictable sets, running the offense through Lammers in the high post and prioritizing minimizing turnovers. The first couple of games have been similar, save not running the sets through the high post. But there have been some moments of play where the offense doesn't seem to be running sets, where there are more dribble drives and extemporizing. At first, I thought it was just sloppy play because there were more turnovers. But, there was also more second chance points because the defense was scrambled.

    There were more of these moments in the ECU game and it occurs to me that this is actually what we are going for. I thought that Devoe had been wild in his creativity, but it started to work against ECU. The fluid players like Wright, Moore, Devoe, Gueye, etc who tend to look sloppy in the context of structured sets may actually be the guys who lead the transition to a more "loosey-goosey" style of offense. I'll be interested to see if my impressions are whacked or if we actually see this.

    This still looks like a defense-first squad. They could be special by the end of the year, especially with the addition of the "Bull in a China Shop" Banks. We needed help on the boards and I think he will do that. He also won't be muscled in the paint like Gueye, Wright or Cole.

    Banks may be a liability on the offensive end. In his first two games, his hands were terrible. "Manos de pierdas."

    Phillips has been solid on the dfensive end. He is strong. And while he has shown glimpses on assertiveness on the offensive end, our O tends to stagnate when he is in there. He has to put in a more consistent effort to pressure the defense. Otherwise he represents a bit of a conundrum, being a key defensive performer, but bogs the O a bit.

    Did we notice Haywood driving the lane? He had a really nice scooping lay-up against ECU. He has to do it against the good teams, though. Consistency. Important player moving forward

    Alavarado has not started the season on fire but I love this guy. Reminds me of Chris Corchiani, even if I date myself with the comparison.

    Devoe gave us our first sneak peek of what to expect of him in the ECU game. Fluid player who wants to create on the move.

    Alston has been a bulldog, being consistently assertive despite the fact that he doesn't have the best tools. He is showing a Senior's attitude, which we need.

    Gueye has fine post moves. I was frustrated that he got himself 4 great looks against TN and missed them all. I think he will be valuable against the ACC quality teams because he will command double teams. But he can be muscled and can be needled to lose his cool.

    Ogbonda looks like he has finally developed to the point where the speed of the game is not overwhelming him. He might be able to help us. The next ten games should tell the tale.

    Cole has had a terrible start to the season. He had been woefully passive before he turned his ankle. Hope he turns it around.

    But I really like Moses Wright. He fits the free-wheeling style of play and he tries to do good things out there, even if he doesn't have the polish to accomplish everything he tries to do. That means he is a little wild right now. But if his polish catches up with is physical skills, watch out!

    Love me some Khalid Moore. He is way better than his recruiting rankings. He's long, athletic, has a motor, Ds-up and is far more polished on offense than I thought we was going to be. His game also seems to fit a more free-wheeling offense. I think he helps right away.

    I'm also a fan of Sjolund and still think he has a shot to help this year. His defense is improving rapidly but he will make his hay on the offensive end where he is fluid and creative. He can pass and get his own shot. He is a decent athlete and shows open joy when he is on the court.

    In the last two recruiting classes: Alvarado, Haywood, Wright, Devoe, Moore and Sjolund. that is the core of the turnaround, right there. GT has been struggling to create offense forever. These six players will be the key to changing that and showing the basketball world that we can play a funs style of basketball.
     
  3. MiracleWhips

    MiracleWhips Ramblin' Wreck

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    Agree with everything in this
     
  4. YlJacket

    YlJacket Helluva Engineer

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    The crux of the offense for this year is going to be whether with a "loosey goosey" style they can consistently create shots against good defenses - especially good ACC defenses. Against ECU we are good enough athletically and skilled enough to be able to break them down one on one and out of that create shots. Against Tennessee not so much. I think UT is closer to what we will see in conference. Not a lot of driving lanes or creativity.

    IMHO we don't need to go all the way back to highly structured sets like last year and AD is not the distributor that Lammers is so that won't work anyway. But there is a lot of semi structured motion for a 4 out set that looks at high screens, down screens, cut off the high post, and etc. that will go a long way toward creating shots and driving lanes without running a highly structure wheel or flex (dated myself even older than you :eek:) You see it with Michigan, Villanova, other good 4 out teams.

    I do agree this team's calling card is going to be defense. I like that. But to compete for the middle of the ACC they are going to have to get the offense sort of semi structured.
     
  5. MtnWasp

    MtnWasp Jolly Good Fellow

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    I think "semi-structured" is the goal. The problem with structured offense against the Hall of Fame ACC coaches is that they will completely scout your team and will negate what you want to do if they know what that is. Part of our success in year one was that we were a complete unknown. By the second half of the ACC slate, we struggled more.

    I think that is why Pastner wants an offense that has the flexibility to react to the defense on the fly. We become less predictable and thus are more difficult to scout. Both Hewitt (after Cliff Warren left) and Gregory paid lip service to a similar tactic, but for each of them it was predicated on the PG being able to make the initial move by breaking down ball pressure, and neither had anyone who could do that. I don't think that either could teach the offense, both of whom had horrendously stagnant offenses.

    It remains to be seen whether Pastner can do it, but I remain hopeful. It will take some time because of the level of coordination required, the scheme is new and the team is young. But I saw more of it against ECU than Lamar. My barometer is Devoe. I think he was recruited with the scheme in mind and I think that free flowing offense is what he wants to play. So goes Devoe, so goes the offense (maybe not right away, but progressively).

    Forget Tennessee. That game, #6 on the road was not a test for the new offense. the young team was not ready for that game. It is questionable whether we could beat that team on the road even in February, but the second game of the season? Forget it. Being beat by only 13, considering how many of our good scoring opportunities that we bricked, was a pretty gritty effort.
     
  6. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    Interesting comparing Alvarado to Corciani. I remember Chris differently but would rather see him in Jose than Hurley like I do now.
     
  7. orientalnc

    orientalnc Helluva Engineer

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    I agree. Corchiani was never a great scorer, but set records for assists and steals. Maybe Jose will be that kind of player, but I hope he scores more than Chris. That is what we need from him.
     
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  8. YlJacket

    YlJacket Helluva Engineer

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    Chris was a player who like Jose would stick his nose anywhere on defense and be a pest. That is the comparison.

    Corchiani actually had a decent shot but didn't really show it off given the rest of their team. If Devoe and Haywood get really consistent with their shooting I bet he defers as well.
     
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  9. YlJacket

    YlJacket Helluva Engineer

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    I was desperately trying not to mention Hewitt as his stated goal was pretty similar to what I described. But I agree with you he put way too much pressure/importance on the PG to initiate the offense by beating his guy off the dribble. That is why his offense generally sucked.

    I also agree with you that Devoe is likely the bell cow for this year's offense. He certainly comes with the pedigree to be an ACC scorer. I haven't seen a ton last year or this but he doesn't strike me as a Reddick type catch and shoot guy you have to engineer shots for but rather a shooter who can slash when given a slightly assisted chance. So this leads me to why I think Tennessee is an important data point. Not that I thought we would win - and in fact I am happy we played the tough level of D we did. We did good from my perspective. But what it showed me was we don't have players - Devoe in particular who are skilled and strong enough yet to break down above average defenders. They need help. How Pastner gets them help to generate shot opportunities or driving lanes is my question. I keep talking about Michigan or other what I consider high end perimeter based offenses that we should emulate. They are not incredibly structured offenses but they do have rules that teams follow for picks and movement that really work. I didn't see the ECU game - only radio - but I didn't see the type of movement and rules that I would hope for against Tennessee in particular (or Lamar). They are not difficult but we need to start putting them in before we play VT, Clemson or especially a UVA.
     
  10. lv20gt

    lv20gt Helluva Engineer

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    I don't think he put too much pressure on the PG to initiate the offense. I think his problem was he didn't overerecruit PGs like he needed to in order to play that style. Part of it was bad luck with a couple things, Austin Jackson going pro in baseball, Crit leaving after a year, and Miller getting hurt and never really being the same. With that approach you really need to have at minimum 2 Pgs on roster at a time, and probably 3 to be safe as you don't want to rely on a FR in that situation unless he is a KA type. I feel like Hewitt ran into the issue of recruiting to get the best talent instead of recruiting for the biggest needs first.
     
  11. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    Absolutely agree about Corchiani as a gritty pest defender.

    I just erased my post on why I depart from the comparison, realizing, embarassingly, that Chris and Mugsy and Bobby and Spud and Mark and Kenny are more alive in my thinking about ACC pt guards than anybody in the last 25 years.
     
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  12. okiemon

    okiemon Helluva Engineer

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    I agree that Moses has the athleticism, but so far his decision-making has been abysmal. He has made several horrible passes, and — since he hasn’t (yet) become a good shooter — his decisions to take medium to long range shots as often as not end up giving the ball right back to the opposing team when he chucks up bricks.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  13. orientalnc

    orientalnc Helluva Engineer

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    Being a great athlete does not make you a basketball player.
     
  14. YlJacket

    YlJacket Helluva Engineer

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    Nope it doesn't. But it sure makes it easier - especially on the defensive end.
     
    MiracleWhips, kg01 and orientalnc like this.
  15. tsrich

    tsrich Ramblin' Wreck

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    How many practices did Devoe have before the UT game? I thought he was out almost the whole preseason. If so, you can't read much into his performance in that game, or any of the early games. He's got to work himself into game shape
     
  16. dtm1997

    dtm1997 Helluva Engineer Featured Member

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    I think he was cleared about 10 days before Florida Tech and he didn't play in that game. I think that lines up with your estimate.
     
  17. gtgaas

    gtgaas Jolly Good Fellow

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    Cole has had a terrible start to the season. He had been woefully passive before he turned his ankle. Hope he turns it around.

    I believe Evan hurt his ankle before the season started.
     
  18. kg01

    kg01 Get-Bak! Coach Featured Member

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    Ideally, you need a combination of the two.

    I hate the notion that just because a guy has great athleticism he, therefore, can't also be a good/great basketball player. Or that you should somehow avoid athleticism and have a bunch of cerebral-only dudes. "Ooh, lookit all these gym rats makin' all these cute passes and whatnot."

    That only gets you so far. Then you run up against a team of dudes who can also make all them cute passes but they can also get in all your passing lanes, knock down shots just as well and can run you outta the gym.

    Everybody talks about how Golden St plays a great brand of basketball and all that but what folks seem to ignore is that their length and athleticism is off the charts. And if you think Curry doesn't have a high degree of athleticism, you're wrong.
     
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  19. YlJacket

    YlJacket Helluva Engineer

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    You must have been watching my AAU team. Full of cute cerebral types who run up against Team Loaded . It ain't pretty :cry: :( :inpain: :beercheers: :beercheers: :beercheers:
     
    kg01 likes this.
  20. kg01

    kg01 Get-Bak! Coach Featured Member

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    Haha. Hoosiers and the era of the NBA right after Jordan's retirement (which was terri-bad) have skewed a lotta peoples viewpoints on basketball.
     

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